Virgin Recruiting

[srjumbo747]

Originally Posted by zero/zero

It isn't if you know the details of the offer. And it isn't about the money

Correct. It’s about kicking the company for what happened.
Some individuals are so bitter about the past they refuse to look forward.
Pity really as the new T&C’s look pretty good. Lots of protections and eye watering pay rise but some feel they’ve got to make a stance!

[MCT SET]

Hi, Is the new T and C advertised on pilot jobs network for virgin accurate for the new rumoured package? also how likely is the new deal to be accepted or rejected?

[pudoc]

Originally Posted by MCT SET

Hi, Is the new T and C advertised on pilot jobs network for virgin accurate for the new rumoured package? also how likely is the new deal to be accepted or rejected?

they are accurate. Although where they’ve said 2 local nights off after DXB/JFK etc they mean 3 local nights (2 days off).

difficult to say which way it’ll go.

[clvf88]

I've heard a rumour that the new pay deal includes a clause that if you call in sick on two or more occasions you lose some form of pay? Could anyone shed any light on this?

Are there any other interesting clauses like this?

[pudoc]

Originally Posted by clvf88

I've heard a rumour that the new pay deal includes a clause that if you call in sick on two or more occasions you lose some form of pay? Could anyone shed any light on this?

Are there any other interesting clauses like this?

So as the company are introducing sector pay, the argument against doing so is “what if I’m not rostered to fly as much as someone else”.

so to protect that the company will guarantee your sector pay over the year will be at least 85% of the average number of sectors flown by pilots that year. But the guarantee is removed if you call sick 3 times in a year But the roster balancing system should try to get you back up to the average anyway.

so basically if you’re sick a lot, you potentially wont earn as much flight pay. Pretty industry standard I think.

this doesn’t affect basic salary.

[srjumbo747]

There’s also non punitive fatigue days.
The long term sick policy is good.
Lots of suspicious pilots though.

[clvf88]

Thanks for clarifying

[Seosan]

Originally Posted by MCT SET

Hi, Is the new T and C advertised on pilot jobs network for virgin accurate for the new rumoured package? also how likely is the new deal to be accepted or rejected?

None of it is accurate. FO Year 1 (Joining with < 3000 hrs) will be ~£91,600. SFO Yr 1 (>3000 hrs) ~£101,500. Captain Yr 1 ~£162,300. This is all based on doing 87 sectors a year and not falling behind by having more than two short term sick days, going on LTS or maternity etc.

Whilst the money is a welcome improvement, the deal is looking like it’s going to be rejected because the revised scheduling agreement is reducing the number of required days off after most trips or duties. ATL, Florida, NAS and Caribbean all used to attract three rostered days off, they will now attract two. The only trip that gains a 3rd DO is CPT. Florida trips that were two nights down route are being changed to one night. A rule to have a heavy crew is introduced but allows VS crews operate as 2-man for an hour longer than BA allows, and isn’t valid if you fly the A330.

[srjumbo747]

And if it gets rejected what will happen?

[zero/zero]

Originally Posted by srjumbo747

And if it gets rejected what will happen?

Then the union go back and renegotiate, as has happened with many other pay deals at other airlines in the UK and worldwide

[srjumbo747]

What, as has been discussed, happens if the reps resign?

[zero/zero]

Originally Posted by srjumbo747

What, as has been discussed, happens if the reps resign?

Nobody wants that, but if it happens then there’ll be an election and some of the 993-ish remaining pilots will step forward and see what they can do.

The pay elements are backdated to 1 Jan no matter what happens, the roster protections proposed are not much better than currently being flown (and in a some cases worse in the short term) and in the meantime the company will keep haemorrhaging experienced pilots to places like WizzAir/DHL/Emirates and relying on huge disruption payments to keep the show on the road.

In reality, there are a few key improvements that can be made to the deal that would probably get it over the line fairly easily.

[R T Jones]

People leaving Virgin to join Wizz air. Feels a sad day.

[cessnapete]

Originally Posted by R T Jones

People leaving Virgin to join Wizz air. Feels a sad day.

Surely when Flying Pay is an element of your salary, a seniority based rostering system is required. Otherwise if just rostered by Scheduling. whim, they control your pay.
The more you choose/ bid to work, by seniority, the higher your monthly pay..And yes when off sick you do loose some pay, industry normal..

[Seosan]

Originally Posted by cessnapete

Surely when Flying Pay is an element of your salary, a seniority based rostering system is required. Otherwise if just rostered by Scheduling. whim, they control your pay.
The more you choose/ bid to work, by seniority, the higher your monthly pay..And yes when off sick you do loose some pay, industry normal..

Monthly bid satisfaction doesn’t make a difference if the company sets up a decent monthly credit system for assigning work. Unfortunately, because there’s no mention of this being implemented, there’s no monitored way of knowing what the “roster optimiser” actually does. It’s just another reason why the offer doesn’t look good.

To their credit the company have included a guaranteed flight pay of 4 sectors a month to combat any work shy rosters.

[Talewind]

Part time

Are Virgin still offering the Lifestyle and Lifestyle + contracts? If so anyone have updated payscales for these that they could share.

[Seosan]

Originally Posted by Talewind

Are Virgin still offering the Lifestyle and Lifestyle + contracts? If so anyone have updated payscales for these that they could share.

Officially yes but good luck getting on one. It’s not like the LCCs or larger airlines where asking for PT is a given, there’s a lot of people waiting to be allowed to go onto a part time contract.

The pay offer (unlikely to be accepted in its present form) has the Lifestyle estimated earnings, based on 70 sectors at £81,300 for SFO 1 and £132,100 for CP 2. Lifestyle+ is based on 57 sectors and is £66k and £107.4k respectively.

[Lordflasheart]

When's the ballot ?

but VS pilots have all said they will vote this down.

The pay offer (unlikely to be accepted ... )

When's the ballot ?

LFH

[Potatos_69]

Originally Posted by R T Jones

People leaving Virgin to join Wizz air. Feels a sad day.

I sincerely doubt this. No one in their right mind should leave virgin for Wizzair. It’s like heaven and hell in comparison.

[srjumbo747]

The problem in Virgin is that there are many who believe the grass is greener elsewhere.