Easyjet Strike?
Albertoli,
I like your assumptions! You have a great talent to assume stuff about me and then argue to me that your assumptions are correct. Amazing stuff.
I wrote it before, and I'll write it again. I started the command assessment process last year, at 3004 factored hours. I have now passed it all. I worked for a long while at a base where you are limited by duty hours, not block hours - so my annual hours are around 700 to 750.
I wonder where you gained your education to make such a guess? My salary will be £61,913, rising to £68,792. Sorry to bore you with the facts.
Well I can think of 5 in the UK.
Just because I accepted the job offer at easyJet, doesn't mean I'm not right to vote no if I think the deal is poor, compared to the rest of the market.
I like your assumptions! You have a great talent to assume stuff about me and then argue to me that your assumptions are correct. Amazing stuff.
I wrote it before, and I'll write it again. I started the command assessment process last year, at 3004 factored hours. I have now passed it all. I worked for a long while at a base where you are limited by duty hours, not block hours - so my annual hours are around 700 to 750.
you will be on a salary of say around £85000 (an educated guess)
Now, which other airline will give you command with your experience level in 5 years of joining the company?
Just because I accepted the job offer at easyJet, doesn't mean I'm not right to vote no if I think the deal is poor, compared to the rest of the market.
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I can understand why he is upset about his wage, he suddenly has to start paying tax! As much of of a shock that might be, the people based in germany could not expect this to last forever.
There are a lot of german pilots paying tax since years (as I do)! I mentioned this already that we pay now more tax than before.
Thinking of a bigger picture, compared to you, I am not concerned about the percentage ONLY. I fear future complications by making EZY management stronger NOW!
The example of the LTU paydeal should make it transparent, that EZY management is not reflecting the superb profit of this year to it´s pilots!
Ok with me, if you like that deal. I do not!
Take your pay raise and be happy! And observe the strategical change of employment at EZY!
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Kraut,
First of all, I am sorry to forget about your 5% tax you paid - I stand corrected completely.
I still don't know why you are hanging on to the LTU deal. It only makes the deal look better for the german bases!
Like you, I am looking at the big picture and I am only suggesting you should keep your banners in the closet for a while, the bases aren't split up by this deal.
As soon as the company offers local RPI+0.7% I suggest you get them out. And it might suprise you, but I will get them out as well, even though the london bases will probably be better of through it. Things like this will hurt our position and not the pay increase offered.
And in terms of sharing in the profits of the company - We are employees and therefore paid for the job we do. If the company is making losses you would probably still demand your payrise because other companies are offering them and you had nothing to do with the losses the company has made.
Market conditions are probably the biggest factor in how large our payrise is going to be and with the offer for unpaid leave and Indigo I think you know yourself were we are.
So if your banners said - I want a fair deal! I suggest you change them to :I want my local contract and get the same payrise as everyone else!
Or if you want to look at the bigger picture put them away and vote yes.
First of all, I am sorry to forget about your 5% tax you paid - I stand corrected completely.
I still don't know why you are hanging on to the LTU deal. It only makes the deal look better for the german bases!
Like you, I am looking at the big picture and I am only suggesting you should keep your banners in the closet for a while, the bases aren't split up by this deal.
As soon as the company offers local RPI+0.7% I suggest you get them out. And it might suprise you, but I will get them out as well, even though the london bases will probably be better of through it. Things like this will hurt our position and not the pay increase offered.
And in terms of sharing in the profits of the company - We are employees and therefore paid for the job we do. If the company is making losses you would probably still demand your payrise because other companies are offering them and you had nothing to do with the losses the company has made.
Market conditions are probably the biggest factor in how large our payrise is going to be and with the offer for unpaid leave and Indigo I think you know yourself were we are.
So if your banners said - I want a fair deal! I suggest you change them to :I want my local contract and get the same payrise as everyone else!
Or if you want to look at the bigger picture put them away and vote yes.
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Easyme - Im sorry, but are you on one side saying that you think voting yes for this "deal" is the way to go, and then on the other hand you are saying "Do I think we should split the pilot community up? definitely not. I think we should all be unionized and have one negotiating team for the whole community." ?? Then you are also claiming that "and certainly not bad enough (the pay deal. my remark) to strike over".
I think, and its just a thought, a quite scary one too, that this way of looking at our situation is exactly what will eventually get us down on our knees and take away the last bit of respect that we, ourselves, and our industry leaders have left for us. This is NOT about the 4% or 5% or whatever would be negotiated at this stage. It is about the arrogance and total lack of respect that our company has showed towards us and BALPA in the past 6 months. Im talking about how the MAD base contracts has been dealt with, all the problems our colleagues are still facing in MXP and ORY, years after the bases have been opened. Im talking about the use, or should I say abuse of the recent crew survey?
I truly believe that now is the time to say no. Now is the battle a lot of people are referring to as "keep the powder dry for the real battle". If not now, then you can keep that powder dry for as long as you´d like, because there will be no more battles to fight.
Local contracts will follow, splitting up the union making it impossible to negotiate ANYTHING! Random rostering WILL follow. We have a CEO who have made statements along the line of "There must be other ways of doing this" ie other ways to roster us. Before someone says "Yea, but if that happens THEN my powder will be dry for a battle" - Sorry....then it will be too late. We will have local contracts and a weaker union. Once the "continent" is split into local bases it will be a piece of cake to push T&Cs down to lows never seen before in a British (ex British by then) company.
Based in The UK? Watch as they will start over-crewing continental bases and then operating the "extra" crew in to the UK bases, doing your job, for less money, less pension (no pension??), no sick pay, no loss of licence etc etc. Make people redundant on UK contracts? The other base/company can operate the routes instead. Each base/country will be a seperate company so the UK employment laws are worth zero for us and so will BALPA be. They can not negotiate for these new "companies".
Good luck to all of us.
I think, and its just a thought, a quite scary one too, that this way of looking at our situation is exactly what will eventually get us down on our knees and take away the last bit of respect that we, ourselves, and our industry leaders have left for us. This is NOT about the 4% or 5% or whatever would be negotiated at this stage. It is about the arrogance and total lack of respect that our company has showed towards us and BALPA in the past 6 months. Im talking about how the MAD base contracts has been dealt with, all the problems our colleagues are still facing in MXP and ORY, years after the bases have been opened. Im talking about the use, or should I say abuse of the recent crew survey?
I truly believe that now is the time to say no. Now is the battle a lot of people are referring to as "keep the powder dry for the real battle". If not now, then you can keep that powder dry for as long as you´d like, because there will be no more battles to fight.
Local contracts will follow, splitting up the union making it impossible to negotiate ANYTHING! Random rostering WILL follow. We have a CEO who have made statements along the line of "There must be other ways of doing this" ie other ways to roster us. Before someone says "Yea, but if that happens THEN my powder will be dry for a battle" - Sorry....then it will be too late. We will have local contracts and a weaker union. Once the "continent" is split into local bases it will be a piece of cake to push T&Cs down to lows never seen before in a British (ex British by then) company.
Based in The UK? Watch as they will start over-crewing continental bases and then operating the "extra" crew in to the UK bases, doing your job, for less money, less pension (no pension??), no sick pay, no loss of licence etc etc. Make people redundant on UK contracts? The other base/company can operate the routes instead. Each base/country will be a seperate company so the UK employment laws are worth zero for us and so will BALPA be. They can not negotiate for these new "companies".
Good luck to all of us.
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I followed the advice from somebody that posted on the BALPA site and that is to disregard the emotional issues like going on strike, but only looked at the deal on the table.
I simply think that that deal is a bad one, so I voted no.
For some continental bases it's ok if you purely look at inflation, but don't forget the extra bills facing us with regards to tax, social security and local contracts. For the UK bases it is also a lousy deal as taxes and social security stay the same, but inflation is going through the roof.
Absolutely right!
If the company was making a loss and managers were not handing themselves a £900K bonus, the I agree with your statement. It's not my goal to bankrupt the company, it's my belief that we should be rewarded for the very hard work we do and should participate in the success of the company!
I simply think that that deal is a bad one, so I voted no.
For some continental bases it's ok if you purely look at inflation, but don't forget the extra bills facing us with regards to tax, social security and local contracts. For the UK bases it is also a lousy deal as taxes and social security stay the same, but inflation is going through the roof.
I truly believe that now is the time to say no. Now is the battle a lot of people are referring to as "keep the powder dry for the real battle". If not now, then you can keep that powder dry for as long as you´d like, because there will be no more battles to fight.
Balls and a spine eh? There are a lot of miner out there who thought the same as you 20 years a go. They have balls and a spine but no job?
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Right Way Up
I do not know where you get the impression that I am wound up by easyjet pay - I can assure you I am not.
easyme
Well said!
Hundredpercentpleae
Ok which 5 airlines is it that you could have earned more than the easy captain's pay (68K as you say) and had a command in 4+ years of joining especially given your limited experience level?
Vote how you like, it is your choice. It is often the case that people accept a job with a company and once they are in they moan about their T&Cs.
Kraut
You may have been paying taxes in Germany but it was very little compared to the UK guys. Bottom line is that given the current tax situation, the German pilots got paid more than their UK counterparts for doing the same job.
I do not know where you get the impression that I am wound up by easyjet pay - I can assure you I am not.
easyme
Well said!
Hundredpercentpleae
Ok which 5 airlines is it that you could have earned more than the easy captain's pay (68K as you say) and had a command in 4+ years of joining especially given your limited experience level?
Vote how you like, it is your choice. It is often the case that people accept a job with a company and once they are in they moan about their T&Cs.
Kraut
You may have been paying taxes in Germany but it was very little compared to the UK guys. Bottom line is that given the current tax situation, the German pilots got paid more than their UK counterparts for doing the same job.
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You may have been paying taxes in Germany but it was very little compared to the UK guys. Bottom line is that given the current tax situation, the German pilots got paid more than their UK counterparts for doing the same job.
What do you think, the waiting list to Germany was that long?? Just because of Germany!?
Now, I guess, the waiting list to Germany is much shorter.
Which is ok, gives it the chance for guys to go to Germany for lifestyle only.
Right Way Up
I do not know where you get the impression that I am wound up by easyjet pay - I can assure you I am not.
I do not know where you get the impression that I am wound up by easyjet pay - I can assure you I am not.
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Originally Posted by albertoli
It is often the case that people accept a job with a company and once they are in they moan about their T&Cs.
I think most of us are generally satisfied with the t&c's. After all this is partly why I joined. However I would say that your argument about knowing what we signed for is flawed, as one can only be certain of what it is like to work for a certain company by experiencing it first hand. Everything you hear from someone else, employee or company, is strongly biased. Now, I am not saying I am disatisfied to work for easyJet, before you jump to conclusions as you usually do. Indeed I enjoy my job, but this is not to say I also believe we deserve more recognition from management. Without the goodwill we show everyday not a single eJ aircraft would depart on time. If our current management continues to believe we only deserve a mere pat on the back, and a dismal pay rise, if our ops director thinks he can get away with being condescending and confrontational with our representatives, then one day the goodwill will be gone, and the network will grind to a screeching halt.
Your mate could also tell you that the current pay deal is only slightly better than the previous one which was strongly rejected. I am not going to vote yes to a deal which is essentially the same as the one I voted against a few months previously. And if this causes us to have ballot for IA so be it. I refuse to betray myself and what I think is right, sorry.
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Without the goodwill we show everyday not a single eJ aircraft would depart on time
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Originally Posted by caudillo
I could count on the fingers of somebody with no hands the number of times I've seen an ezy depart on time.
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This is only a guess, but even that (pisspoor) figure is more than likely sustained by a handful of bases, masking the fact that others are about as punctual as the trains.
I wonder how long I'd last if I used the same criteria to time my arrival to the crew room.
I wonder how long I'd last if I used the same criteria to time my arrival to the crew room.
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Nope sorry to dissapoint you caudillo, this a network average, and it is not a guess. Can you tell why is this figure piss poor?
If you have nothing more meaningful to say on this topic other than that I suggest you stop waisting your time and mine.
If you have nothing more meaningful to say on this topic other than that I suggest you stop waisting your time and mine.
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Whats all this rubbish about goodwill? You pilots ought to come down from the clouds sometimes and then you would realise that you are not doing the company a big favour by turning up for work. In fact you might like to read your contract of employment and find out what the company expects from you as part of your normal duties.
As someone else has already stated, salaries are generally dictated by market forces relating to in this case the employment of pilots. If I were voting I would take this into consideration before rejecting the offer out of hand
As someone else has already stated, salaries are generally dictated by market forces relating to in this case the employment of pilots. If I were voting I would take this into consideration before rejecting the offer out of hand
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Whats all this rubbish about goodwill? You pilots ought to come down from the clouds sometimes and then you would realise that you are not doing the company a big favour by turning up for work.
As someone else has already stated, salaries are generally dictated by market forces relating to in this case the employment of pilots. If I were voting I would take this into consideration before rejecting the offer out of hand
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Originally Posted by santa
Whats all this rubbish about goodwill? You pilots ought to come down from the clouds sometimes and then you would realise that you are not doing the company a big favour by turning up for work. In fact you might like to read your contract of employment and find out what the company expects from you as part of your normal duties.
As someone else has already stated, salaries are generally dictated by market forces relating to in this case the employment of pilots. If I were voting I would take this into consideration before rejecting the offer out of hand
As someone else has already stated, salaries are generally dictated by market forces relating to in this case the employment of pilots. If I were voting I would take this into consideration before rejecting the offer out of hand
I will be nice by trying to explain to you what we mean by goodwill. One simple example among others. We are required to report for duty one hour before ETD. Experience shows this simply not enough to check in, get the paperwork, check weather NOTAMS, NTC's, brief ourselves and CC, walk to the aircraft, battle through security, do all our preflight checks, and go. In fact if we all turned up at ETD-1, as the book says, not a single flight would depart on time. This is why I personnaly turn up at least at ETD-1hr15 or even -1hr20. Needless to say I am not paid for these extra minutes, nor will these minutes count towards my duty time. This is what I mean by "goodwill". We could also give up trying to improve slots, negotiate direct routings with ATC, or chase up a missing fuel truck or caterer. There are many examples of how our "goodwill" enables the company to maintain a decent-ish schedule.
So you see, our job involves slighly more than just turning up for work as you say. I wouldn't lecture you on how to do your job (whatever it is), so please refrain from lecturing us. Thanks.
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ZBman
Actually Kraut was the quickest and his reply is even better because: "never argue with a fool. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience."
