Need help BA
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Need help BA
Hi
I need a couple of infos on BA: on what payscale would a FO with full ATPL join? Cadet salary?
Is there a difference in salary after being promoted from FO to SFO, apart from the normal increments?
any gerneral thoughts and comments on BA?
cheers
I need a couple of infos on BA: on what payscale would a FO with full ATPL join? Cadet salary?
Is there a difference in salary after being promoted from FO to SFO, apart from the normal increments?
any gerneral thoughts and comments on BA?
cheers
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It would depend on whether you were a DEP or whether you needed training and a new Type Rating to the a/c you will be flying for BA.
I believe the payscale for a cadet is 28k basic rising by 5k per year for the first 5 years - at year 5 it then matches that of the DEP payscale forever onwards.
adj
I believe the payscale for a cadet is 28k basic rising by 5k per year for the first 5 years - at year 5 it then matches that of the DEP payscale forever onwards.
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I'm pretty sure the cadet salary is only for those low timers joining without commercial jet experience. With a full ATPL I wouldn't have thought you'd join on a salary that low. A friend of mine had 700 hours jet (all on 737) and joined BA's 737 fleet on a DEP salary of approx 49k basic.
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DEP year one starting pay is 44K basic on all fleets. SSP (cadet) year one is 28K and increases over 5 years to match normal pay scales. You can make the upgrade to SFO after 5(ish) years and pay increments continue as normal, if you don't make the upgrade then I think your pay becomes capped at that point.
SFO is achieved after either 4 or 5 yrs (can't remember which). Everyone joins as an FO. Presumably as a "full ATPL" holder that means you have 500 hrs multi-crew and experience with another airline? In that case, it's straight in on the DEP salary.
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With those hours you could be put straight onto the 777, if you pass the assessment you will go into the holding pool and then it is a waiting game. When I joined they offered me an airbus course in 3 months and said that I could turn this down in the hope that a 777 course would come up soon. However this did come with the warning that if I turned down the course I would go to the bottom of the holding pool list and there would then be no guarantee of another course being offered in the future. With BA it is just better to get in regardless of type as seniority is everything, for example I joined 18 months ago and are now 400 places up the ladder, if I had held out for the 777 I would have been lower seniority by around 150 places which would of meant that I would maybe have to wait 2 - 3 years longer for a command. I will get onto the 777 within the next couple of years and I have good seniority so all is well.
BA's not recruiting for the 777 at the moment. A few lucky one's are being offered the 757/767 but nearly everyone is going to the Airbus.
Edited to add that it looks like one or two have gone to 777 in last year.
Edited to add that it looks like one or two have gone to 777 in last year.
Last edited by Megaton; 31st Mar 2007 at 08:53.
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Theres no 777 courses for FO's even internally this year, some 3 crew work going back to the 744, which can be fully covered internally, looks like only 737 and 320 at the moment. However BA have bought 51 slot pairs from BMI and this will inevitably be long haul. Things look quite optimistic long term for promotion etc. Anyone from a more dynamic carrier will find the inertia/failiure of management, bloody mindedness of other staff groups etc very frustrating
I would recommend LGW over LHR if the choice is offered, way less hassle, younger crews and at least theres a limit on hours. Carmen is better than bidline for junior guys too.
I would recommend LGW over LHR if the choice is offered, way less hassle, younger crews and at least theres a limit on hours. Carmen is better than bidline for junior guys too.
Last edited by Hotel Mode; 1st Apr 2007 at 09:00.
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wow..... easy on the lgw advice there!
think very hard about that little gem about lgw over lhr!
carmen better than bidline! ur either a manager or u miss being home most nights. what bidline fails to offer new guys in terms of choice i'm petty sure it recovers in the many other areas it governs.
what would seem to suggest that your well meant advice is a tad misleading (not by intention i'm sure) is that i never head of one example of a lhr fo bidding for p737x . however i could give you a host of examples of c737x who became so fed up with the working pattern at lgw that they are now on the 744 as fo's (by choice) not to mention the many ex p737x on the 757/767 and a few on airbus.
do you regret leaving lgw for the 744? are u bidding back?
lgw may be a better base to work from in terms of the flying op but in tems of rostering and working agreement you must be kidding.
carmen better than bidline! ur either a manager or u miss being home most nights. what bidline fails to offer new guys in terms of choice i'm petty sure it recovers in the many other areas it governs.
what would seem to suggest that your well meant advice is a tad misleading (not by intention i'm sure) is that i never head of one example of a lhr fo bidding for p737x . however i could give you a host of examples of c737x who became so fed up with the working pattern at lgw that they are now on the 744 as fo's (by choice) not to mention the many ex p737x on the 757/767 and a few on airbus.
do you regret leaving lgw for the 744? are u bidding back?
lgw may be a better base to work from in terms of the flying op but in tems of rostering and working agreement you must be kidding.
Last edited by the heavy heavy; 1st Apr 2007 at 23:29. Reason: reading hotel modes profile!
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You're being highly selective about your quoting. I said Carmen was better than bidline for junior guys, and a new guy to the company does not have the choice of 744 so why bring it up. The Capts leaving Gatwick have joined the 747 in the top 50% of that fleet which is a completely different decision. The LGW FO's will be bidding to LHR short haul fleets with 5 yrs seniority which puts them into top half of the seniority on 320 straight away.
Anyone joining the airbus now is likely (unless recruitment speeds up again) to spend the next 2 yrs in Blind Lines with only a mostly ignored preference at stage 2. A LGW FO will, with proper manipulation of Carmen be able to get days off, avoid disliked trips and get prefered trips to a satisfaction level of at least 40% on average. Blind line prefs work to an average of about 0-10% in my experience. LGW is limited to 770hrs per year and everyone gets same number of days off (rubbish if you're senior admitedly). LHR is 900 and the most senior will generally have most days off. LGW does not have any way of forcing you to work on the 2 days off you desperately bid for unlike LHR. LGW gets 6 weeks leave with inviolate wrap days. LHR has 4 with wraps which can be used if below CAP plus 2 "free of duty" which have no wraps. I Realise BLR's are a better ruleset in general, but i'd rather have a carmen roster over a blind line any day.
No i have no intention with 6 yrs seniority of returning to LGW as an FO, but i will take a short haul command at some point and it will be LGW not LHR.
Anyone joining the airbus now is likely (unless recruitment speeds up again) to spend the next 2 yrs in Blind Lines with only a mostly ignored preference at stage 2. A LGW FO will, with proper manipulation of Carmen be able to get days off, avoid disliked trips and get prefered trips to a satisfaction level of at least 40% on average. Blind line prefs work to an average of about 0-10% in my experience. LGW is limited to 770hrs per year and everyone gets same number of days off (rubbish if you're senior admitedly). LHR is 900 and the most senior will generally have most days off. LGW does not have any way of forcing you to work on the 2 days off you desperately bid for unlike LHR. LGW gets 6 weeks leave with inviolate wrap days. LHR has 4 with wraps which can be used if below CAP plus 2 "free of duty" which have no wraps. I Realise BLR's are a better ruleset in general, but i'd rather have a carmen roster over a blind line any day.
No i have no intention with 6 yrs seniority of returning to LGW as an FO, but i will take a short haul command at some point and it will be LGW not LHR.
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has that not got more to do with the approx 5 years extra sen between c737x and c320l?
the point that we've both have made in round about ways is seniority is everything in bidline and worth very little in carmen! given the flexible and secret feast that is www long term plan for us all i would think that the safest place to be is at lhr protected by bidline.
you may have 6 years sen now but from your post history i believe you left lgw with 2-3! you could have stayed then and didn't! also your 6 years on the jumbo puts you at the very bottom of the list so you have no sen to lose. However, a return to lgw would provide you with a relatively senior position (not many 6yr fo's at lgw bud!).
so i think my point is pretty valid. your a very junior fo on the 744 who is advising deps to go to lgw becasue carmen will suit them better whilst remaining on the bottom of a bidline fleet and stating you won't leave till you get a command!
you've never used bidline on SH or been on a LHR SH fleet. my point again is that there are plenty of folks out there who have used both systems and i've yet to meet anyone, apart from you or the management, who would prefer carmen. when the company is desperate for us to give up bidline for carmen i'm afraid i smell a rat.
and i think we both agree that when considering which base to join that any expansion in the company will be at LHR and therefore relative sen will rise quicker on those expanding fleets. the only requirement for fo's at lgw is to replace the one's that are leaving to come to lhr!
anyway i guess the point of this thread was to air opinions and we have.
cheers.
the point that we've both have made in round about ways is seniority is everything in bidline and worth very little in carmen! given the flexible and secret feast that is www long term plan for us all i would think that the safest place to be is at lhr protected by bidline.
you may have 6 years sen now but from your post history i believe you left lgw with 2-3! you could have stayed then and didn't! also your 6 years on the jumbo puts you at the very bottom of the list so you have no sen to lose. However, a return to lgw would provide you with a relatively senior position (not many 6yr fo's at lgw bud!).
so i think my point is pretty valid. your a very junior fo on the 744 who is advising deps to go to lgw becasue carmen will suit them better whilst remaining on the bottom of a bidline fleet and stating you won't leave till you get a command!
you've never used bidline on SH or been on a LHR SH fleet. my point again is that there are plenty of folks out there who have used both systems and i've yet to meet anyone, apart from you or the management, who would prefer carmen. when the company is desperate for us to give up bidline for carmen i'm afraid i smell a rat.
and i think we both agree that when considering which base to join that any expansion in the company will be at LHR and therefore relative sen will rise quicker on those expanding fleets. the only requirement for fo's at lgw is to replace the one's that are leaving to come to lhr!
anyway i guess the point of this thread was to air opinions and we have.
cheers.
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has that not got more to do with the approx 5 years extra sen between c737x and c320l?
the point that we've both have made in round about ways is seniority is everything in bidline and worth very little in carmen! given the flexible and secret feast that is www long term plan for us all i would think that the safest place to be is at lhr protected by bidline.
so i think my point is pretty valid. your a very junior fo on the 744 who is advising deps to go to lgw becasue carmen will suit them better whilst remaining on the bottom of a bidline fleet and stating you won't leave till you get a command!
you've never used bidline on SH or been on a LHR SH fleet. my point again is that there are plenty of folks out there who have used both systems and i've yet to meet anyone, apart from you or the management, who would prefer carmen. when the company is desperate for us to give up bidline for carmen i'm afraid i smell a rat.
Have you ever used Carmen? I did for 3 yrs, max around a 1/3 up a seniority list. My prefs were avoid early starts and do 1 or 2 nice trips a month. I didnt do a report before 9am for 2 yrs and always got a decent trip or 2. I also had every single important day off i required. That is simply not possible with Bidline
and i think we both agree that when considering which base to join that any expansion in the company will be at LHR and therefore relative sen will rise quicker on those expanding fleets. the only requirement for fo's at lgw is to replace the one's that are leaving to come to lhr!
Finally, you are taking this utterly the wrong way. I will be on the picket line at ANY attempt to alter BLR's I think they're the best agreement going in the airline industry. Believe it or not i would actually very much support its introduction at LGW, but while Carmen remains I stand by my claim that seniority number 3200 at LGW will have more lifestyle choice than 3199 at LHR. Sen 2800 will almost certainly be better off at LHR but thats several years away.
