morse shmorse
morse shmorse
Guest
Posts: n/a
Probably the best way is to get someone (who knows it) to send it to you (using a cheap key/buzzer arrangement)... although I have used ready-made (prerecorded) training tapes (with random letters/numbers sounding at gradually building speeds).
There are, for some letters, catchy sing-song phrases to help you remember them. Short words/syllables = dits. Long words/syllables = dahs
If I remember correctly...
Fit A Fai- ry .._. di, di, dah-, dit (F)
Here comes the queen --.- dah, dah, di, dah- (Q)
Hope this helps.
Cheers.
Q
There are, for some letters, catchy sing-song phrases to help you remember them. Short words/syllables = dits. Long words/syllables = dahs
If I remember correctly...
Fit A Fai- ry .._. di, di, dah-, dit (F)
Here comes the queen --.- dah, dah, di, dah- (Q)
Hope this helps.
Cheers.
Q
Oops!
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At the risk of getting 'Busted Big Time' for advertising (not that they're anything to do with me). A few chaps I know mentioned a program called, I think, Morse Cracker from Transair as being quite good and quite cheap to buy.
Don't know if this will help?........
Don't know if this will help?........
Controversial, moi?
My thoughts for what they are worth!
I bought a tape from Oxford Air Training School (some yaers back now). I found that 15 minutes per night was about the optimum time to spend listening and learning. More than 15 minutes my mind would wander and I learned little more. It took me about 3 weeks I think and required perseverance.
A few tricks to help that I came across:
E, I, S, H.
Elephants . dit
In .. dit, dit
Straw ... dit, dit, dit
Hats .... dit, dit, dit, dit
C Chase me Charlie - . - . da, dit, da, dit (Use the rhythm)
Q already mentioned
D Dad did it - .. da, dit, dit
I am sure that others can give you more.
Good luck.
I bought a tape from Oxford Air Training School (some yaers back now). I found that 15 minutes per night was about the optimum time to spend listening and learning. More than 15 minutes my mind would wander and I learned little more. It took me about 3 weeks I think and required perseverance.
A few tricks to help that I came across:
E, I, S, H.
Elephants . dit
In .. dit, dit
Straw ... dit, dit, dit
Hats .... dit, dit, dit, dit
C Chase me Charlie - . - . da, dit, da, dit (Use the rhythm)
Q already mentioned
D Dad did it - .. da, dit, dit
I am sure that others can give you more.
Good luck.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Grobelling through the murk to the sunshine above.
Age: 60
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Go to Google search engine (it's the best) and search for a Morse tutor programme. There are hundreds, and some of them designed specifically for pilots, ie slow 3-letter groups. The best bit - they're free.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Annapolis, MD
Age: 86
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a good morse tutor for downloading on the following site:
http://www.blackcatsystems.com/
Good luck.
BC
http://www.blackcatsystems.com/
Good luck.
BC
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Inside the M25
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yankee doodle -.--
V is Beethoven's V'th for victory ...-
B is another Beethoven symphony -...
Any way of remembering, even if it is completely meaningless, will do the job.
V is Beethoven's V'th for victory ...-
B is another Beethoven symphony -...
Any way of remembering, even if it is completely meaningless, will do the job.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OTOH...the Coast Guard and US Navy stopped using Morse years ago...as have cruise ships, tankers, freighters....well the list goes on.
In aviation...now? When all the codes are on the charts? Better to teach the guys about the FMS/FMC...much MORE valuable.
As usual, the Europeans are...behind the times.
Seems that they have "just" discovered ....GPS. Don't trust it tho...some sinister plot by the DOD to...turn it off.
In aviation...now? When all the codes are on the charts? Better to teach the guys about the FMS/FMC...much MORE valuable.
As usual, the Europeans are...behind the times.
Seems that they have "just" discovered ....GPS. Don't trust it tho...some sinister plot by the DOD to...turn it off.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
411A there's all sorts of things in aviation that you can look up in a book BUT when you're bouncing around in a single/twin piston in the dark trying to do the Coconut 3 STAR into a VORDME/ILS to 22R or whatever your workload will be increased to breaking point if you've got to read those little dots and dashes on your cluttered chart. I've watched trainees with finger trouble set up the wrong beacon and, although they knew the coding was wrong, they couldn't fault analyse the situation because they couldn't relate what they were hearing to another beacon. Even though there's no ground exam in Morse in JAA anymore I'd strongly advise people to get some working knowledge of Morse.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The most important aspect is the order in which you learn it. Starting with the E (.) and T (-), the going to I (..), N (-.) etc.
There are plenty of free morse tutors out there. But if it's for a CAA PPL/IR (there is no JAA one yet if I am right, which is why you are asking?) the be advised that the morse is S----L----OOOOO-----W. At 6 wpm, it's almost a different language.
Note that on that subject, it's important to recognise the letters as sounds not as dots and dashes.
Useful practice is walking around translating car numberplates into morse.
There are plenty of free morse tutors out there. But if it's for a CAA PPL/IR (there is no JAA one yet if I am right, which is why you are asking?) the be advised that the morse is S----L----OOOOO-----W. At 6 wpm, it's almost a different language.
Note that on that subject, it's important to recognise the letters as sounds not as dots and dashes.
Useful practice is walking around translating car numberplates into morse.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Inside the M25
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
411A - As far as the DOD conspiracy is concerned - do you really think we ought to operate airliners using primary navigation equipment which could have its accuracy downgraded with no warning or explanation?
I agree about being behind the times, though. I don't see why in these days of cheap and reliable electronics that it isn't possible to broadcast the station identifier - and, for that matter, a reminder of the frequency and the lat and long at the same time!
I agree about being behind the times, though. I don't see why in these days of cheap and reliable electronics that it isn't possible to broadcast the station identifier - and, for that matter, a reminder of the frequency and the lat and long at the same time!
A couple of decades ago there was a nifty little gadget on the market for ham radio operators called the "Datong Morse Tutor". It generated random 5-character groups of all letters or mixed letters/figures, at speeds from a few words per minute to in excess of 30 wpm.
I used it to get my marine commercial operator's speed up to exam standard. It worked well. Look in the ham radio magazines for second-hand units, or find your local ham radio club and ask if anyone has one or knows someone who has and who would be willing to part with it (and almost all of them will)
I used it to get my marine commercial operator's speed up to exam standard. It worked well. Look in the ham radio magazines for second-hand units, or find your local ham radio club and ask if anyone has one or knows someone who has and who would be willing to part with it (and almost all of them will)
411A - whilst I normally refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man on this occassion I will make an exception.
As a JAA instructor teaching people to become commercial pilots I ALWAYS made my students learn morse code even though it had been removed from the syllabus requirements.
It is Sooooooo easy on test to mis-dial a freq or press the wrong ident button. If all you are doing is listening to the beeps and muttering "thats idented" the examiner will fail you with relish.
And good on him.
A few weeks ago I was flying into Nice. Its a bitch of an approach as there is a complicated noise abatement (The Riviera) that uses several nav aids. ATC often give unhelpful vectors and restrictions and on this occassion threw in a runway change with a circle to land.
I tell you that in the space of 2 minutes I had to tune and retune 7 different navaids. As well as monitoring how the other guy is getting on, running checklists and talking to ATC.
Without a good working knowledge of morse I could not have verified the idents in those conditions. In fact I twice cocked up a frequency only to catch it on the ident. Its a BASIC SKILL and I cannot for the life of me understand why it was dropped from the JAA syllabus.
Referring to a chart to find that ident would have overspilled my capacity during that approach no doubt about it.
I once listened to a VOR called TNT radiating as TST. Easy to spot when your ear jars with what you were expecting. Hard to spot if you are having to process audible info into visual...
I find it curious your jibe at Europe being... behind the times. Most often we accused of being to far ahead re Airbus technology. Not to forget it was us that invented the jet engine, jet airliner, supersonic airliner etc. etc.
Not sure about having just discovered GPS. We are not keen to use it as a sole reference nav system and stop maintaining the NDB VOR network. The DoD do retain the ability to turn it off. Do you imagine they would have a moments hesitation in doing so were the US being attacked with GPS guided munitions?
Additionally as you read this a salvo of nuclear weapons may be airborne above Kashmir. What effect the EMP on civilian GPS signals?
But thats really another thread.
Every trainee pilot who is serious about being a professional will arm himself with the simple ability to understand morse by ear.
Download for free one of the many programs and you can master it within a fortnight doing an hour an evening. I did and it has stood me in good stead.
Cheers,
WWW
As a JAA instructor teaching people to become commercial pilots I ALWAYS made my students learn morse code even though it had been removed from the syllabus requirements.
It is Sooooooo easy on test to mis-dial a freq or press the wrong ident button. If all you are doing is listening to the beeps and muttering "thats idented" the examiner will fail you with relish.
And good on him.
A few weeks ago I was flying into Nice. Its a bitch of an approach as there is a complicated noise abatement (The Riviera) that uses several nav aids. ATC often give unhelpful vectors and restrictions and on this occassion threw in a runway change with a circle to land.
I tell you that in the space of 2 minutes I had to tune and retune 7 different navaids. As well as monitoring how the other guy is getting on, running checklists and talking to ATC.
Without a good working knowledge of morse I could not have verified the idents in those conditions. In fact I twice cocked up a frequency only to catch it on the ident. Its a BASIC SKILL and I cannot for the life of me understand why it was dropped from the JAA syllabus.
Referring to a chart to find that ident would have overspilled my capacity during that approach no doubt about it.
I once listened to a VOR called TNT radiating as TST. Easy to spot when your ear jars with what you were expecting. Hard to spot if you are having to process audible info into visual...
I find it curious your jibe at Europe being... behind the times. Most often we accused of being to far ahead re Airbus technology. Not to forget it was us that invented the jet engine, jet airliner, supersonic airliner etc. etc.
Not sure about having just discovered GPS. We are not keen to use it as a sole reference nav system and stop maintaining the NDB VOR network. The DoD do retain the ability to turn it off. Do you imagine they would have a moments hesitation in doing so were the US being attacked with GPS guided munitions?
Additionally as you read this a salvo of nuclear weapons may be airborne above Kashmir. What effect the EMP on civilian GPS signals?
But thats really another thread.
Every trainee pilot who is serious about being a professional will arm himself with the simple ability to understand morse by ear.
Download for free one of the many programs and you can master it within a fortnight doing an hour an evening. I did and it has stood me in good stead.
Cheers,
WWW
I hope that morse is never replaced by a voice ident. It's far easier to discern the morse ident in crappy receiving conditions or from a weak signal than it is with a voice ident.
As for learning it or not I'm equivocal. Handy? Yes. Necessary? No. Not now that charts & plates have the morse ident printed next to the letters.
As for learning it or not I'm equivocal. Handy? Yes. Necessary? No. Not now that charts & plates have the morse ident printed next to the letters.
I think it is NECESSARY in training so as to avoid simple mistakes under test pressure.
For such a small investment in time and effort its a very very worthwhile skill to have.
411A's ridiculous assertion that FMC training would be more valuable is laughable.
Which FMC? Which software update? Operated to which SOP's?
A better candidate for Initial Sim and Line Training I cannot think of than the FMC!
WWW
For such a small investment in time and effort its a very very worthwhile skill to have.
411A's ridiculous assertion that FMC training would be more valuable is laughable.
Which FMC? Which software update? Operated to which SOP's?
A better candidate for Initial Sim and Line Training I cannot think of than the FMC!
WWW
Back to the original topic...
there is also an a4 page with all the letters and the morse dots and dashes superimposed on each letter so that you can visualise the shape of the letter in dots and dashes.
Makes sense when you see it and it works...
I have no longer got my copy, perhaps if someone has one they could scan it to here, or post a link?
Cheers
CS
there is also an a4 page with all the letters and the morse dots and dashes superimposed on each letter so that you can visualise the shape of the letter in dots and dashes.
Makes sense when you see it and it works...
I have no longer got my copy, perhaps if someone has one they could scan it to here, or post a link?
Cheers
CS
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Try this link...
G8 MZY
Amateur radio is one of the areas where Morse still flourishes. On the HF bands, CW (morse) will still be readable when voice transmissions have long since been lost in static.
However, a word of warning when learning Morse. Don't fall into the same trap I did. Learn the individual letters by their sound and not as a series of dots and dashes. The dots and dashes method works for learning the letters, but won't help when you have to decipher a transmission. Hearing a sound and then trying to convert it in your head to dots and dashes is a habit that is hideously difficult to break.
G8 MZY
Amateur radio is one of the areas where Morse still flourishes. On the HF bands, CW (morse) will still be readable when voice transmissions have long since been lost in static.
However, a word of warning when learning Morse. Don't fall into the same trap I did. Learn the individual letters by their sound and not as a series of dots and dashes. The dots and dashes method works for learning the letters, but won't help when you have to decipher a transmission. Hearing a sound and then trying to convert it in your head to dots and dashes is a habit that is hideously difficult to break.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: On the ground :-(
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Morse code is a good thing
I agree 100% with WWW and WX Man.
Morse is an invaluable skill that should be taught at FTOs and the Morse test should be brought back, I think. I can’t see how you can identify a beacon without it. And anyway, the way I see it is that if you are PIC you want to be sure you have the right beacon selected so as not fly into a cloud full of rocks by tracking the wrong beacon and killing yourself, it’s in your own best interest to know it.
I was lucky to know Morse before I started my training. However, if there is any advice that I can give you it is as WX Man writes you must end up being able to receive Morse as a sound or a musical note if you like and not as a series of dots and dashes and trying to convert them into text as your doing the Doogle A22 departure.
All the best and have fun with it, it is something worth having under your belt.
LL
Morse is an invaluable skill that should be taught at FTOs and the Morse test should be brought back, I think. I can’t see how you can identify a beacon without it. And anyway, the way I see it is that if you are PIC you want to be sure you have the right beacon selected so as not fly into a cloud full of rocks by tracking the wrong beacon and killing yourself, it’s in your own best interest to know it.
I was lucky to know Morse before I started my training. However, if there is any advice that I can give you it is as WX Man writes you must end up being able to receive Morse as a sound or a musical note if you like and not as a series of dots and dashes and trying to convert them into text as your doing the Doogle A22 departure.
All the best and have fun with it, it is something worth having under your belt.
LL
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WWW,
Very basic working knowledge of morse, not a bad idea....proficiency, complete and utter nonsense, just like most of the JAA licensing requirements....yes indeed, living in the past.
And...as FMC/FMS are now installed in nearly all new aeroplanes, what better study aid could there be for new pilots? 'Tis called practicality, something the ARB/CAA/JAA never really learned.
Wonder if LORAN (A) is still on your tests? Would not at all be surprised. Pressure pattern navigation perhaps? Yep, done that many years ago....now out of the picture, as is the JAA. They are indeed sadly...behind the times.
Very basic working knowledge of morse, not a bad idea....proficiency, complete and utter nonsense, just like most of the JAA licensing requirements....yes indeed, living in the past.
And...as FMC/FMS are now installed in nearly all new aeroplanes, what better study aid could there be for new pilots? 'Tis called practicality, something the ARB/CAA/JAA never really learned.
Wonder if LORAN (A) is still on your tests? Would not at all be surprised. Pressure pattern navigation perhaps? Yep, done that many years ago....now out of the picture, as is the JAA. They are indeed sadly...behind the times.
411A -
WWW,
Very basic working knowledge of morse, not a bad idea....proficiency, complete and utter nonsense,
++ Well what use is anything if you are not profficient?
And...as FMC/FMS are now installed in nearly all new aeroplanes
++ And what about the thousands of commercial public transport aircraft in which they are not? Not to mention the FMC failure I sufferred TODAY?
what better study aid could there be for new pilots?
++ All new pilots operating an FMC need to be trained in its use. By their airline, using their unique procedures, on their aircraft type, using the software update found on their fleet. Trying to teach a 'generic' course would cause more harm than good.
Wonder if LORAN (A) is still on your tests?
++ No it isn't.
++ You tried to make out Morse is a waste of time. It isn't and you know your argument is weak.
++ If you admit that I will be pleasantly suprised.
WWW
WWW,
Very basic working knowledge of morse, not a bad idea....proficiency, complete and utter nonsense,
++ Well what use is anything if you are not profficient?
And...as FMC/FMS are now installed in nearly all new aeroplanes
++ And what about the thousands of commercial public transport aircraft in which they are not? Not to mention the FMC failure I sufferred TODAY?
what better study aid could there be for new pilots?
++ All new pilots operating an FMC need to be trained in its use. By their airline, using their unique procedures, on their aircraft type, using the software update found on their fleet. Trying to teach a 'generic' course would cause more harm than good.
Wonder if LORAN (A) is still on your tests?
++ No it isn't.
++ You tried to make out Morse is a waste of time. It isn't and you know your argument is weak.
++ If you admit that I will be pleasantly suprised.
WWW