Airbus crash/training flight
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Quote Clandestiono
Protections can prevent temporarily incapacited pilot from stalling the aeroplane or flipping it on its back, but they cannot prevent the crew that has no clue about where they are or what should they do from flying the perfectly servicable aeroplane into ground. Selection and training is the key and with A320 you don't need less training than with classic types, au contraire, you need to know and understand your electronic gizmos very well and you have to be able to fly the aeroplane without them.
Quote off
Sorry but you talk about fact we really don't know!
I hope I got yur point wrong but when you clearly state that this crew was having no clue about the acft you're absolutely wrong.
One of my colleagues knew both of them from times they have worked together at Aero Lloyd in Germany (which went out of the market in 2003).
Both of them have been Airbus-Seniors @ Aero Lloyd for years beforehand and worked for the successors of Aero Lloyd subsequently while plenty of their staff got hired elsewhere, Germanwings and Easyjet e.g.
Maybe this guys did a tragic junior mistake, nobody knows @ present.
If they did it you can just talk about the facts:
1. They paied this mistake with the most worthful thing they have: Their Life
2. They have definately not been the first crew of high experience that crashed an aircraft due to mistake(s) every student-pilot would shake his head about in disbelief.
What starts to make me thinking is the time the BEA takes to investigate.
Now, just 3 days after, there are the first clues of the Dash-Tragedy at Buffallo, in this case after almost 3 month we do not even have a clear statement concerning the CVR.
This starts to make me thinking since France and CVR's/Blackboxes are an issue itsself!
Protections can prevent temporarily incapacited pilot from stalling the aeroplane or flipping it on its back, but they cannot prevent the crew that has no clue about where they are or what should they do from flying the perfectly servicable aeroplane into ground. Selection and training is the key and with A320 you don't need less training than with classic types, au contraire, you need to know and understand your electronic gizmos very well and you have to be able to fly the aeroplane without them.
Quote off
Sorry but you talk about fact we really don't know!
I hope I got yur point wrong but when you clearly state that this crew was having no clue about the acft you're absolutely wrong.
One of my colleagues knew both of them from times they have worked together at Aero Lloyd in Germany (which went out of the market in 2003).
Both of them have been Airbus-Seniors @ Aero Lloyd for years beforehand and worked for the successors of Aero Lloyd subsequently while plenty of their staff got hired elsewhere, Germanwings and Easyjet e.g.
Maybe this guys did a tragic junior mistake, nobody knows @ present.
If they did it you can just talk about the facts:
1. They paied this mistake with the most worthful thing they have: Their Life
2. They have definately not been the first crew of high experience that crashed an aircraft due to mistake(s) every student-pilot would shake his head about in disbelief.
What starts to make me thinking is the time the BEA takes to investigate.
Now, just 3 days after, there are the first clues of the Dash-Tragedy at Buffallo, in this case after almost 3 month we do not even have a clear statement concerning the CVR.
This starts to make me thinking since France and CVR's/Blackboxes are an issue itsself!
For the readers of the last page only sake!
Dear Flyingphil:
I'm absolutely aware that we know almost nothing about the Perpignan accident and I have mentioned the fact repeatedly throughout the thread.
As circumstances of the accident discussed in this thread are still largely unknown, I have never, ever commented on crew capability or aeroplane behaviour during the accident flight.
My comment about clueless crews was made while discussing A320 flight controls system in general and is pertinent to crews who: set inadvertently 3000 fpm descent and failed to notice it, set FCU altitude below aerodrome level, flew into water during manual go-around, etc. It was in no way relating to the crew of D-AXLA as what they did is unknown at the time.
There was a truckload of discussion about french judicial processes that hampered (maybe it still does) the accident investigation earlier in the thread.
Interesting fact: when I applied for A320 F/O position in a certain Middle-eastern airline, their selection team would send home even type rated pilots who failed their critical reasoning test. You know, the one with true/false/can't say answers.
Didn't get the job, if you wonder.
cheers
I'm absolutely aware that we know almost nothing about the Perpignan accident and I have mentioned the fact repeatedly throughout the thread.
As circumstances of the accident discussed in this thread are still largely unknown, I have never, ever commented on crew capability or aeroplane behaviour during the accident flight.
My comment about clueless crews was made while discussing A320 flight controls system in general and is pertinent to crews who: set inadvertently 3000 fpm descent and failed to notice it, set FCU altitude below aerodrome level, flew into water during manual go-around, etc. It was in no way relating to the crew of D-AXLA as what they did is unknown at the time.
There was a truckload of discussion about french judicial processes that hampered (maybe it still does) the accident investigation earlier in the thread.
Interesting fact: when I applied for A320 F/O position in a certain Middle-eastern airline, their selection team would send home even type rated pilots who failed their critical reasoning test. You know, the one with true/false/can't say answers.
Didn't get the job, if you wonder.
cheers
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Hey Clandestino
first of all Sorry!!!! As I hoped I definately misunderstood your point by relatig it directly to this accident.
Sorry that you did not get the job - hope your pleased with the one if have right now!
first of all Sorry!!!! As I hoped I definately misunderstood your point by relatig it directly to this accident.
Sorry that you did not get the job - hope your pleased with the one if have right now!
Found this sentence in an article about one of the crash victims in tomorrow´s NZ Herald (yes, it´s tomorrow in NZ now):
French authorities are expected to release a preliminary report on the crash around the end of this month.
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Winter in Perpignan has come and gone...
And still..
"French authorities are expected to release a preliminary report on the crash around the end of this month."
A handy statement, as useful as a stopped watch: can be accurate, but only from time to time.
March is coming....
"French authorities are expected to release a preliminary report on the crash around the end of this month."
A handy statement, as useful as a stopped watch: can be accurate, but only from time to time.
March is coming....
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Well, Mr. Sarkozy will change the calender.
Pas de problème.
BTW
It took seven years to bring this to court....
AFP: Explosion d'AZF Toulouse: ouverture lundi d'un procs hors norme
Pas de problème.
BTW
It took seven years to bring this to court....
AFP: Explosion d'AZF Toulouse: ouverture lundi d'un procs hors norme
Last edited by hetfield; 23rd Feb 2009 at 05:52.
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I found this recent comment from ANZ's CEO Rob Fyfe interesting:
'We don't talk about vision or mission or that kind of thing but we do have a character in the company that we do talk about, and one of the attributes is to "be yourself". There's a lot to be said for being yourself, rather than create a facade.'
I'm sure that was not directed at the French, but it would fit. Too much swaggering and too little substance, in my opinion.
'We don't talk about vision or mission or that kind of thing but we do have a character in the company that we do talk about, and one of the attributes is to "be yourself". There's a lot to be said for being yourself, rather than create a facade.'
I'm sure that was not directed at the French, but it would fit. Too much swaggering and too little substance, in my opinion.
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I'm sure that was not directed at the French, but it would fit. Too much swaggering and too little substance, in my opinion.
Sun worshipper
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Bloody typical !
When there's nothing new, bash the French, you'll readily find followers here on Prune.
People so short-sighted they haven't realised that 200 years later, there is still no trial on the disappearance of a few Aborigines or the subsequent kidnapping of their children...
..and who should try a get some real air firefighting equipment (which any country in Europe with some risk of bushfire has ).
JetBlast in RUNews.
What a bloody shame !
When there's nothing new, bash the French, you'll readily find followers here on Prune.
People so short-sighted they haven't realised that 200 years later, there is still no trial on the disappearance of a few Aborigines or the subsequent kidnapping of their children...
..and who should try a get some real air firefighting equipment (which any country in Europe with some risk of bushfire has ).
JetBlast in RUNews.
What a bloody shame !
People so short-sighted they haven't realised that 200 years later, there is still no trial on the disappearance of a few Aborigines or the subsequent kidnapping of their children...
..and who should try a get some real air firefighting equipment (which any country in Europe with some risk of bushfire has ).
..and who should try a get some real air firefighting equipment (which any country in Europe with some risk of bushfire has ).
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While we are off-topic and French-bashing...............the only 20th century terrorist act in NZ was the French bombing of the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior in Auckland harbour ( we were not at war with the French at the time)
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Glad you said "in the XX th century".
Of course that act pales when compared to the appropriation of the native population's land. In the 19 th century if I'm not mistaken.
And of course, nobody else but the French do that !
Even more pathetic !
Of course that act pales when compared to the appropriation of the native population's land. In the 19 th century if I'm not mistaken.
Thx for another example how this country is doing EVERYTHING they can to protect their economy.
Even more pathetic !
Originally Posted by Lemurian
Glad you said "in the XX th century".
Of course that act pales when compared to the appropriation of the native population's land. In the 19 th century if I'm not mistaken.
Of course that act pales when compared to the appropriation of the native population's land. In the 19 th century if I'm not mistaken.
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My initial reply was for someone who has "SYDNEY" as his location.
Sydney, Australia ?
As for the New Zelanders, I don't think that I am that ignorant.
Nor prone to the propaganda against the French that's rife there.
As for the Rainbow warrior bungling, I would agree the operation was uncalled for, and the death of the journalist unfortunate. Shouldn't do that to a "friendly country" - which, in other circumstances, has absolutely no qualms spying on its "allies" by participating in the Echelon ops.
But I'm a pacifist. Let's solve the dispute on a rugby field, preferably in the semi-finals of a world cup, shall we ?
Thanks, Breecher
Sydney, Australia ?
As for the New Zelanders, I don't think that I am that ignorant.
Nor prone to the propaganda against the French that's rife there.
As for the Rainbow warrior bungling, I would agree the operation was uncalled for, and the death of the journalist unfortunate. Shouldn't do that to a "friendly country" - which, in other circumstances, has absolutely no qualms spying on its "allies" by participating in the Echelon ops.
But I'm a pacifist. Let's solve the dispute on a rugby field, preferably in the semi-finals of a world cup, shall we ?
Lemurian, Hetfield is neither Australian or in Sydney. Think goose-stepping, Corporals and next door.
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Lemurian
Since you apparently know the character of the froggies, any idea why 88% of those responding to a newspaper not far from Perpignan say that the truth will not come out of the hearings taking place into the AZF explosion in France in 2001?
88% "will not"
8% "will"
4% "don't know"
88% "will not"
8% "will"
4% "don't know"