Simulated engine failure - turn-backs with fatal results.
Guest
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Do you? Or don't you do a turn back? There is no simple answer to this complex question. There is lots of evidence of failure and also success stories to tell but it comes down to Aircraft/options/situation/training.
First of all do you own it? If it's a military trainer then you probably have an ejection seat and if you are off the departure end of a runway with less than 1000' I suggest you use it as your 1st option. But wait, there is a school in front of you so you change course to eject or even set up for a open field/clear road if your in a light trainer. But wait again, you’re above 500' and your proficient at turn backs in your light prop-job so you have another option.
I have experience instructing on military jets/turbo-props and civilian aircraft and I can tell you that it is paramount that you know your aircraft and your abilities. You must make sure that your decision is made prior to break release and what your actions will be upon failure at selected points on departure. You can set parameters as stated above or whatever works for you but experiment at altitude and set an artificial floor say 1000'. So at 1500' cut the throttles and attempt the turn back. See what happens.
When I flew jets we NEVER encouraged turn backs for several reasons. Jets have higher stall speeds, which could exasperate a turn back. They also could benefit from higher potential energy thus allowing greater altitude gain and more time to attain a possible re-light. I know a turn-back is possible just not prudent in a jet!
When I flew PC-9's, I was amazed at how quickly the aircraft lost energy due to the prop. It took precious time to feather the prop and the reduction rate of speed was much greater than the jet. But, stall speed was less and the aircraft was very manoeuvrable which made the aircraft relatively easy to turn back. We used 500' as a min altitude to initiate a turn back.
Civilian training aircraft are generally less manoeuvrable (slow roll rates of 100deg/sec or less) and usually have a very low stall speed. Landing in a field at 45kts less any headwind should pose little trouble to the airframe but stalling to try and complete the turn at 100' will likely be fatal. But an option is an option you just have to decide on the priority of your options.
Hope this input helps but whatever you decide, decide before you leave the ground!
First of all do you own it? If it's a military trainer then you probably have an ejection seat and if you are off the departure end of a runway with less than 1000' I suggest you use it as your 1st option. But wait, there is a school in front of you so you change course to eject or even set up for a open field/clear road if your in a light trainer. But wait again, you’re above 500' and your proficient at turn backs in your light prop-job so you have another option.
I have experience instructing on military jets/turbo-props and civilian aircraft and I can tell you that it is paramount that you know your aircraft and your abilities. You must make sure that your decision is made prior to break release and what your actions will be upon failure at selected points on departure. You can set parameters as stated above or whatever works for you but experiment at altitude and set an artificial floor say 1000'. So at 1500' cut the throttles and attempt the turn back. See what happens.
When I flew jets we NEVER encouraged turn backs for several reasons. Jets have higher stall speeds, which could exasperate a turn back. They also could benefit from higher potential energy thus allowing greater altitude gain and more time to attain a possible re-light. I know a turn-back is possible just not prudent in a jet!
When I flew PC-9's, I was amazed at how quickly the aircraft lost energy due to the prop. It took precious time to feather the prop and the reduction rate of speed was much greater than the jet. But, stall speed was less and the aircraft was very manoeuvrable which made the aircraft relatively easy to turn back. We used 500' as a min altitude to initiate a turn back.
Civilian training aircraft are generally less manoeuvrable (slow roll rates of 100deg/sec or less) and usually have a very low stall speed. Landing in a field at 45kts less any headwind should pose little trouble to the airframe but stalling to try and complete the turn at 100' will likely be fatal. But an option is an option you just have to decide on the priority of your options.
Hope this input helps but whatever you decide, decide before you leave the ground!
Guest
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I'm 99% sure Air Cadets VGS units still teach turnbacks on the Vigilant successfully.
Techniques to be used are dependant on headwind component and from memory go something like this:-
<10kts headwind
EFATO <300 land ahead
EFATO >300 <500 Turn back
EFATO >500 mini circuit.
>10kts headwind
EFATO <500 land ahead
EFATO >500 mini circuit.
The emphasis however, is always placed highly on getting the correct speed before starting the turn, 65kts in the case of the Vigi.
It can be good sport buzzing the tower on a legitimate turnback exercise !!
The Vigi is an SLMG though and is really an exception to the rule, wouldn't fancy trying it in a C172 or similar from 500'
Interesting reading though, its something I've given a lot of thought to recently, particularly during a night departure with hostile terrain ahead.
Regards
UA
------------------
Something will always spoil your fun.....
Beer has the Hangover, Sex has the STD, GA has the CAA !
Techniques to be used are dependant on headwind component and from memory go something like this:-
<10kts headwind
EFATO <300 land ahead
EFATO >300 <500 Turn back
EFATO >500 mini circuit.
>10kts headwind
EFATO <500 land ahead
EFATO >500 mini circuit.
The emphasis however, is always placed highly on getting the correct speed before starting the turn, 65kts in the case of the Vigi.
It can be good sport buzzing the tower on a legitimate turnback exercise !!
The Vigi is an SLMG though and is really an exception to the rule, wouldn't fancy trying it in a C172 or similar from 500'
Interesting reading though, its something I've given a lot of thought to recently, particularly during a night departure with hostile terrain ahead.
Regards
UA
------------------
Something will always spoil your fun.....
Beer has the Hangover, Sex has the STD, GA has the CAA !
