P2F Scheme
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P2F Scheme
Hi all,
I would like anyone's advice regarding the problem I'm facing.
I have signed up with an agent (A) in Asia to get type rating followed by line training. I've signed the agreement with (A) to receive the training. Without mentioning any thing about agent (B) in the contract who is the main agent to provide both services (type and line). I have completed the type in the country of agent (B). Both agents (A&B) promised me (in an email) that I will be starting line training straight after the type rating. Now it has been 4 months after completing the type rating and both agents are finding excuses to delay the whole process for ages without giving valid answer.
What should I do? Wait longer or take the matter to law action? Please advice with your experience. Many thanks.
I would like anyone's advice regarding the problem I'm facing.
I have signed up with an agent (A) in Asia to get type rating followed by line training. I've signed the agreement with (A) to receive the training. Without mentioning any thing about agent (B) in the contract who is the main agent to provide both services (type and line). I have completed the type in the country of agent (B). Both agents (A&B) promised me (in an email) that I will be starting line training straight after the type rating. Now it has been 4 months after completing the type rating and both agents are finding excuses to delay the whole process for ages without giving valid answer.
What should I do? Wait longer or take the matter to law action? Please advice with your experience. Many thanks.
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payment was done for type rating and a bit more in advance for expected line training.
pfvspnf: thanks mate but I don't wish to announce any names at this stage.
I wish to have your advice whether to continue waiting for those brokers or should be worried and start a law case? If it's a law case, how to proceed and which department in the government are the concerned unit?
pfvspnf: thanks mate but I don't wish to announce any names at this stage.
I wish to have your advice whether to continue waiting for those brokers or should be worried and start a law case? If it's a law case, how to proceed and which department in the government are the concerned unit?
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You really havent given us any information -
What does your contract state? - usually these agents have two contracts one for the type rating and the other for the line training ( they know in advance that there is no line training and while you do the type rating they will start begging airlines to try and let you fly)
Which country are you in? Which country were you promised the line training?
You will never win a law suit but there are other ways of getting your deposit back?
Take this as a lesson, there is no such thing as legitimate pay to fly , most civil aviation authorities have banned it an most airlines in asia don't do it , only the sketchy ones will do it through questionable middle men once in a while.
What does your contract state? - usually these agents have two contracts one for the type rating and the other for the line training ( they know in advance that there is no line training and while you do the type rating they will start begging airlines to try and let you fly)
Which country are you in? Which country were you promised the line training?
You will never win a law suit but there are other ways of getting your deposit back?
Take this as a lesson, there is no such thing as legitimate pay to fly , most civil aviation authorities have banned it an most airlines in asia don't do it , only the sketchy ones will do it through questionable middle men once in a while.
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There was only one contract offered to me which consolidated both training together. Here is the contract general info:
This agent is authorized by client airline to train the candidates for recruitment. They require EASA license holders ONLY which I am holding. The conditions were stated to successfully pass the type rating then appointed as trainee FO with partner airline to undergo line training. After completing both type rating and line training, this agent will contact their partner airline to undergo an assessment before being selected for FO. If passed then I'll be selected as FO with payroll.
The contract states that this agent (A) will not be liable for any damage or refund of the training fees in case if I failed in evaluation tests conducted by TRTO or the airline.
One thing really pissed me off and I couldn't explain it, the contract states that type rating course must be completed to satisfaction from designated TRTO and SIC rating endorsed on EASA/JAA license.
While I was already in the middle of the type rating course I wanted to make sure that this TRTO program is genuinely approved by EASA authority. I was shocked to receive a confirmation by EASA member that this TRTO program is NOT approved by EASA and they considered the TRTO as Third World Country and my type rating CAN NOT be endorsed in my EASA license UNTIL I get 500 hours of experience in the type. Now this is another breach in their contract which lead to misleading me completely from the track.
Now to me obviously this agent (A) has not provided me with the rest of the training i.e. line training plus they lied to me about authenticity of their offered program. You are absolutely right, they have been begging airlines while we were doing the course and from what I understood that those agents couldn't sign any agreement with any airline. That's why I'm wondering to wait further or start doing action?
I understand that there is no legitimate way of P2F but do you think if I sue this agent I will win and get my money back since they haven't provided me with line training? Also since I'm an EASA license holder, do you think if I report those agents (A&B) to EASA authority do you think EASA agent will support me in any way against them?
Alternatively, what are the other ways to get my money back?
Both type rating and line training were promised to be conducted in South East Asia countries since the beginning.
This agent is authorized by client airline to train the candidates for recruitment. They require EASA license holders ONLY which I am holding. The conditions were stated to successfully pass the type rating then appointed as trainee FO with partner airline to undergo line training. After completing both type rating and line training, this agent will contact their partner airline to undergo an assessment before being selected for FO. If passed then I'll be selected as FO with payroll.
The contract states that this agent (A) will not be liable for any damage or refund of the training fees in case if I failed in evaluation tests conducted by TRTO or the airline.
One thing really pissed me off and I couldn't explain it, the contract states that type rating course must be completed to satisfaction from designated TRTO and SIC rating endorsed on EASA/JAA license.
While I was already in the middle of the type rating course I wanted to make sure that this TRTO program is genuinely approved by EASA authority. I was shocked to receive a confirmation by EASA member that this TRTO program is NOT approved by EASA and they considered the TRTO as Third World Country and my type rating CAN NOT be endorsed in my EASA license UNTIL I get 500 hours of experience in the type. Now this is another breach in their contract which lead to misleading me completely from the track.
Now to me obviously this agent (A) has not provided me with the rest of the training i.e. line training plus they lied to me about authenticity of their offered program. You are absolutely right, they have been begging airlines while we were doing the course and from what I understood that those agents couldn't sign any agreement with any airline. That's why I'm wondering to wait further or start doing action?
I understand that there is no legitimate way of P2F but do you think if I sue this agent I will win and get my money back since they haven't provided me with line training? Also since I'm an EASA license holder, do you think if I report those agents (A&B) to EASA authority do you think EASA agent will support me in any way against them?
Alternatively, what are the other ways to get my money back?
Both type rating and line training were promised to be conducted in South East Asia countries since the beginning.
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, you will spend thousands on a lawyer , even if there is a judgement in your favour many courts in Asia do not award the legal costs incurred.
Please take this as a lesson book the loss , try and go to an approved TRTO to do a check ride and get your type endorsed .
PM with the details of the TRTO and I will try and advise you .
What horrible people, I've said time and time again these line training agents are liars , all they want is your money, it's usually kids from India who have failed their DGCA license conversions who have started these companies to fraud the public
Please take this as a lesson book the loss , try and go to an approved TRTO to do a check ride and get your type endorsed .
PM with the details of the TRTO and I will try and advise you .
What horrible people, I've said time and time again these line training agents are liars , all they want is your money, it's usually kids from India who have failed their DGCA license conversions who have started these companies to fraud the public
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P2F has screwed up the prospects for many experienced pilots who are still out of work.....not to mention terms and conditions in general.
Sympathy for people getting screwed by the P2F providers ? Zero ,Zilch.
Sympathy for people getting screwed by the P2F providers ? Zero ,Zilch.
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Myassen,
My advice is to PM pfvspnf as he is trying to offer some assistance or guidance, and in this case I think it is best that you seek it out.
If this is a true post on your behalf, please do not shell out any more money. This will be a sink hole for you. Now you feel desperate, invested in a p2f program , lost money , and now you are more desperate and would be willing to spend more money. It's a vicious cycle.
However, you will not find much sympathy for your plight here. You thought you were smarter than most and could "beat" the system, by jumping ahead of the line, in front of the guys that are building their hours the honorable way. Sorry dude, you got shafted by an unscrupulous p2f scheme; but then again all of them are. In this day and age, with all of the information about these schemes at the click of a mouse, why you chose to go that route is beyond me. But then again, you thought you were smarter than the rest and now you are looking for help......
My advice is to PM pfvspnf as he is trying to offer some assistance or guidance, and in this case I think it is best that you seek it out.
If this is a true post on your behalf, please do not shell out any more money. This will be a sink hole for you. Now you feel desperate, invested in a p2f program , lost money , and now you are more desperate and would be willing to spend more money. It's a vicious cycle.
However, you will not find much sympathy for your plight here. You thought you were smarter than most and could "beat" the system, by jumping ahead of the line, in front of the guys that are building their hours the honorable way. Sorry dude, you got shafted by an unscrupulous p2f scheme; but then again all of them are. In this day and age, with all of the information about these schemes at the click of a mouse, why you chose to go that route is beyond me. But then again, you thought you were smarter than the rest and now you are looking for help......
Last edited by TheBigD; 25th Nov 2013 at 13:51.
Agree with stalker that this is such a fake story, come on, you guys are smarter than that.
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Recommend all read other threads regarding P2Fers. There's no respect from those who earned there way into the cockpit via ligitimate means.
Least of all no respect from airline management who codones such schemes. And even less respect from agents who make money off the little miscreants who choose to use Mummy and Daddy's money to pay their way into the right.
And then the crying starts... I go ripped off
If it sounds to good to be true it usually is.
Least of all no respect from airline management who codones such schemes. And even less respect from agents who make money off the little miscreants who choose to use Mummy and Daddy's money to pay their way into the right. And then the crying starts... I go ripped off
If it sounds to good to be true it usually is.
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It is a bit like money. Or you save it for years, and then you have some; or you can gamble your last penny believing you get rich in one day. If you loose, you end on the street, right? And who cares?
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To those who thinks I'm faking this story: GROW UP !
The reason I'm not mentioning the names is because I'm still in process until now with those agents and they might help me out (I CAN NOT GUARANTEE THIS). The aim of opening this thread is:
1) seeking help from anyone how to solve this problem
2) I will definitely share the names of those agents for all of you to learn the mistake once I book and confirm the loss. You will be shocked to learn more details about the exact story. I don't have much hours on my shoulder to carry so I was forced to select P2F scheme
TheBigD: I'm not trying to be smarter than the system. What would you do if you apply thousands of applications and you get zero response? I'm not having a full money in my bank account to give away free for agents to screw me. I sort of believed their program because they have mentioned a huge and reputable airline names for recruitment. Then I got shocked when I faced the reality.
The reason I'm not mentioning the names is because I'm still in process until now with those agents and they might help me out (I CAN NOT GUARANTEE THIS). The aim of opening this thread is:
1) seeking help from anyone how to solve this problem
2) I will definitely share the names of those agents for all of you to learn the mistake once I book and confirm the loss. You will be shocked to learn more details about the exact story. I don't have much hours on my shoulder to carry so I was forced to select P2F scheme
TheBigD: I'm not trying to be smarter than the system. What would you do if you apply thousands of applications and you get zero response? I'm not having a full money in my bank account to give away free for agents to screw me. I sort of believed their program because they have mentioned a huge and reputable airline names for recruitment. Then I got shocked when I faced the reality.
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mYaseen, had you done your research, instead of seeking instant gratification, do you think you would be in the donk? P2F scams that pose as schemes is not new. I di have sympathy for those trying to make using legitimate means. Can't say I do for those who continue to short cut the system then get ripped off in the process.
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Myaseen,
As an instructor on the Boeing, after 32 years of flying, if you would make it through selection, I would do my best to train you.
However, you would have no excuses, for not being able to fly IFR, or lack the basics. You carry around a commercial pilots licence, with instrument rating.
If you would not live up to those standards, you would have a hard time with me.
If I would have to check you out, bearing in mind that you have no experience, so give you credit for that on a check, I still would not give you anything for free, if I would not be sure you could take my kids on board, without feeling anxious.
Now, I stand by for your 250 hr backed up flak.
As an instructor on the Boeing, after 32 years of flying, if you would make it through selection, I would do my best to train you.
However, you would have no excuses, for not being able to fly IFR, or lack the basics. You carry around a commercial pilots licence, with instrument rating.
If you would not live up to those standards, you would have a hard time with me.
If I would have to check you out, bearing in mind that you have no experience, so give you credit for that on a check, I still would not give you anything for free, if I would not be sure you could take my kids on board, without feeling anxious.
Now, I stand by for your 250 hr backed up flak.
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@myaseen are you sure you did your research ? you said you opted for this agent because they mentioned a huge and reputable airline.
huge and reputable airlines don't use p2f my friend that should have been the first red light.
and i guess you did post on this forum about p2f, you are gonna get a fair share of unruly replies but pfvspnf seems to want to help you, i would pm him
huge and reputable airlines don't use p2f my friend that should have been the first red light.
and i guess you did post on this forum about p2f, you are gonna get a fair share of unruly replies but pfvspnf seems to want to help you, i would pm him