Extremely negative developments in China
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Extremely negative developments in China
It is now very obvious that things are deteriorating for Foreign pilots in China. The operating enviorment is becoming more and more risky all the time. The terms and conditions are being reduced now that the honeymoon period is over.
They advertise a high salary, but any pilot considering coming to China must realise that there is no free lunch here. For the extra money, you will pay at every turn with compromises both on and off the job. It is fast approaching the stage where the reward does not justify the risks any longer.
Chinese airlines cannot be allowed to get away with this.
Lets get it out in the open now what your airline has tried to change since you arrived in China. Also feel free to discuss the myriad other risks involved in working/living here..be it medical, punishments,airline policys, ATC or anything else...
They advertise a high salary, but any pilot considering coming to China must realise that there is no free lunch here. For the extra money, you will pay at every turn with compromises both on and off the job. It is fast approaching the stage where the reward does not justify the risks any longer.
Chinese airlines cannot be allowed to get away with this.
Lets get it out in the open now what your airline has tried to change since you arrived in China. Also feel free to discuss the myriad other risks involved in working/living here..be it medical, punishments,airline policys, ATC or anything else...
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Hi Wickus,
While I cannot disagree with you, could you be a bit more specific about what is getting worse? Any airline in particular or is it just a general statement or feeling you're having?
My question is not sarcastic, just curious how you see now compared to say last year?
Flex
While I cannot disagree with you, could you be a bit more specific about what is getting worse? Any airline in particular or is it just a general statement or feeling you're having?
My question is not sarcastic, just curious how you see now compared to say last year?
Flex
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Spring Air
I could not agree more with the initial post.
There are plenty of threads on living and flying in China already, but as a specific example:
Spring Airlines has had a fantastic stream of revenue from their "punishment" policy. Plenty of expat pilots have experienced/received at least one reduction in their safety bonus, at times for incidents out of their control. Recent firings and constant threats have added to an already taxing environment and it is truly suffocating. Middle management is competing against each other by coming up with ever more erratic ways to extract monies from the foreign pilots, we suspect they are receiving a bonus depending on the amount of fines allocated.
Local pilots still receive a fraction of those penalties imposed on their expat colleagues for the same mistakes, mind you, in the rest of the world, taxing at 13kts around a corner would not raise an eye brow, here it is a punishable event.
The new contract opened up another can of worms, penalties are no longer capped at $12,000 per event. Liability is now limitless to the point of a constant threat of getting fired on every sector. Adding insult to injury, if you ever want to change airlines while staying in China, it is common knowledge that Chinese airlines will be very hesitant to release those licences at will.
Another tidy bit I recall: recent directives from the flight department has us logging less than "block" time. Spring Airlines is making up their own numbers when it comes to block time.
Simulators and medicals are unjustifiably demanding.
CRM, fatigue and training issues are other favorites.
My recommendation to anyone looking to make a move is, come only if you are truly desperate, and leave once a more caring environment opens up
There are plenty of threads on living and flying in China already, but as a specific example:
Spring Airlines has had a fantastic stream of revenue from their "punishment" policy. Plenty of expat pilots have experienced/received at least one reduction in their safety bonus, at times for incidents out of their control. Recent firings and constant threats have added to an already taxing environment and it is truly suffocating. Middle management is competing against each other by coming up with ever more erratic ways to extract monies from the foreign pilots, we suspect they are receiving a bonus depending on the amount of fines allocated.
Local pilots still receive a fraction of those penalties imposed on their expat colleagues for the same mistakes, mind you, in the rest of the world, taxing at 13kts around a corner would not raise an eye brow, here it is a punishable event.
The new contract opened up another can of worms, penalties are no longer capped at $12,000 per event. Liability is now limitless to the point of a constant threat of getting fired on every sector. Adding insult to injury, if you ever want to change airlines while staying in China, it is common knowledge that Chinese airlines will be very hesitant to release those licences at will.
Another tidy bit I recall: recent directives from the flight department has us logging less than "block" time. Spring Airlines is making up their own numbers when it comes to block time.
Simulators and medicals are unjustifiably demanding.
CRM, fatigue and training issues are other favorites.
My recommendation to anyone looking to make a move is, come only if you are truly desperate, and leave once a more caring environment opens up
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China
i think you might like to highlight the fact that you are discussing short haul operations...
csa longhaul is completely different in my experience ,...so far after 1 year...
Yes , 13 knots with tiller input might ping a QAR, but punishment fines etc ... Not seen that?
May be time to look at the other majors once your contact up.. It might require a three month respite to clear the licence swap hurdles post contract... But that isnt too hard...
csa are looking form320 to 330 guys? Goto longreachchina.com and have a look...
Woodja
csa longhaul is completely different in my experience ,...so far after 1 year...
Yes , 13 knots with tiller input might ping a QAR, but punishment fines etc ... Not seen that?
May be time to look at the other majors once your contact up.. It might require a three month respite to clear the licence swap hurdles post contract... But that isnt too hard...
csa are looking form320 to 330 guys? Goto longreachchina.com and have a look...
Woodja
Air China A330 Capts didn't have fines for the first 5 years either.... until a few months ago.
The initiative of one particular non-expat friendly leader. It doesn't take much or long to go from good to bad in China.
The initiative of one particular non-expat friendly leader. It doesn't take much or long to go from good to bad in China.
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The honeymoon didn't last long, did it.
This is typical mentality of people who should never be allowed near aircraft, let alone own and operate the things.
Apart from their aircraft, the crews are their greatest asset. They should be treated as such.
Unhappy pilots are generally not as safe as happy people. Humans don't perform as well when they are constantly watching their backs, hammered hard for mistakes, etc. Treat people like donkeys, sooner or later they will behave like donkeys.
This is typical mentality of people who should never be allowed near aircraft, let alone own and operate the things.
Apart from their aircraft, the crews are their greatest asset. They should be treated as such.
Unhappy pilots are generally not as safe as happy people. Humans don't perform as well when they are constantly watching their backs, hammered hard for mistakes, etc. Treat people like donkeys, sooner or later they will behave like donkeys.
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Extremely negative developments in China
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinteafrokunta
Kwei lau to si mey yong te', tiau si ta men! Comprende?
鬼佬都是没用的！弔死他们！
In the eyes of Mainlander Chinese, “Kwei lau” kick fuss frequently. Can't be helped. They want things to be done systematic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinteafrokunta
Kwei lau to si mey yong te', tiau si ta men! Comprende?
鬼佬都是没用的！弔死他们！
In the eyes of Mainlander Chinese, “Kwei lau” kick fuss frequently. Can't be helped. They want things to be done systematic.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Fines etc
Yes, that is entirely possible and it only takes one leader to make it all fall to pieces...an escape plan from anywhere is always necessary... Unfortunate but true..
Wja
Wja
