New Deal for New SQ Pilots
Guest
Posts: n/a
I agree with hermie.
Take it or leave it. No one is forced to remain in SQ against their will. Never did.
But still, SQ is giving away almost free 777& 340 ratings. And if lucky, you'll get a A380 rating too.
Oh almost missed out the 747-400 ratings too are available for a small fee.
Take it or leave it. No one is forced to remain in SQ against their will. Never did.
But still, SQ is giving away almost free 777& 340 ratings. And if lucky, you'll get a A380 rating too.
Oh almost missed out the 747-400 ratings too are available for a small fee.
Guest
Posts: n/a
"Not forced to stay at SQ against their will".
Not sure I agree with that statement. More like intimidated. For locals, blackmailed, etc. As for the contracts, 'Indentured Servitude'.
SIA's lobor pratices would not survive in a civilized developed democracy.
Not sure I agree with that statement. More like intimidated. For locals, blackmailed, etc. As for the contracts, 'Indentured Servitude'.
SIA's lobor pratices would not survive in a civilized developed democracy.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hermie,
Good to hear your point of view, but just because you don't see us pulling long faces and going on strike, does not mean that everything is hunky-dory in the land of OZ. The natives are getting restless and discontentment is certainly brewing. I'm glad that your relatives are happy, and so am I. But that's only because I don't have the freedom and financial means to shake off the bonds I have and move to a much better paying airline.
As for being rated one of the best airlines in the world, do not forget that this is rated based on the viewpoint of travellers. Do they include a weighting for staff satisfaction or happiness? I think not. Letting our frustration at conditions of employment be shown to our fare paying customers on board the aircraft is in my opinion not professional and would in no way benefit or relieve frustration. So we plod along, doing just what is necessary to get the job done.
Love the job,....pity about the conditions.
Good to hear your point of view, but just because you don't see us pulling long faces and going on strike, does not mean that everything is hunky-dory in the land of OZ. The natives are getting restless and discontentment is certainly brewing. I'm glad that your relatives are happy, and so am I. But that's only because I don't have the freedom and financial means to shake off the bonds I have and move to a much better paying airline.
As for being rated one of the best airlines in the world, do not forget that this is rated based on the viewpoint of travellers. Do they include a weighting for staff satisfaction or happiness? I think not. Letting our frustration at conditions of employment be shown to our fare paying customers on board the aircraft is in my opinion not professional and would in no way benefit or relieve frustration. So we plod along, doing just what is necessary to get the job done.
Love the job,....pity about the conditions.
Guest
Posts: n/a
To Carillo,
I have been remiss in my reading. SIA is hiring A340 Capt? Can anyone elucidate me how long this has been going on? Also hearing rumours that the last 2 A340s are now on their way to SQ instead of Boeing as was originally intended methinks.
Does this point to doubts regarding ETOPS certification for the 777 both for the SFO/Vancouver and AMS/Chicago? You guys flying the RR powered 777s at other airlines...what's wrong with them darned engines anyway? Or can someone from RR reading this be helpful?
Cheers
I have been remiss in my reading. SIA is hiring A340 Capt? Can anyone elucidate me how long this has been going on? Also hearing rumours that the last 2 A340s are now on their way to SQ instead of Boeing as was originally intended methinks.
Does this point to doubts regarding ETOPS certification for the 777 both for the SFO/Vancouver and AMS/Chicago? You guys flying the RR powered 777s at other airlines...what's wrong with them darned engines anyway? Or can someone from RR reading this be helpful?
Cheers
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hi,
Thank you very much for your replies. Very much appreciated it and at least I have a better understading of the situation.
a) Wouldn't the condition stated by Sunny effect the Flight Crew in the long run ?
b) Wouldn't the crew be somewhat annoyed/frustrated by the whole idea of poor working conditions ?
So why isn't anyone doing something about it, the reason stated by ANITO above is very much true about locals in Singapore.
Quote:
The locals in SQ (or anywhere in Singapore, for that matter) don't complain because you have been conditioned from an early age to never question the Government line, never question authority and to never think for yourself. I'm sorry, but this is a sad fact of life in Singapore and I'm sure many Singaporeans will agree with me there.--Unquote
So if the expats do something about it, at least we are progressing into a better working enviroment. But, there will be a price to pay. Since locals dare not bring up the topic confidently then let the expats do it ? I say, Why Not ?
This is just my personal opinion and I might be wrong. My apologies if some of you can't accept my postings. It is deeply regretted.
Once again, Do correct me if I'm wrong !
Best Regards,
Herman
------------------
Ad Astra Per Aspera
Thank you very much for your replies. Very much appreciated it and at least I have a better understading of the situation.
a) Wouldn't the condition stated by Sunny effect the Flight Crew in the long run ?
b) Wouldn't the crew be somewhat annoyed/frustrated by the whole idea of poor working conditions ?
So why isn't anyone doing something about it, the reason stated by ANITO above is very much true about locals in Singapore.
Quote:
The locals in SQ (or anywhere in Singapore, for that matter) don't complain because you have been conditioned from an early age to never question the Government line, never question authority and to never think for yourself. I'm sorry, but this is a sad fact of life in Singapore and I'm sure many Singaporeans will agree with me there.--Unquote
So if the expats do something about it, at least we are progressing into a better working enviroment. But, there will be a price to pay. Since locals dare not bring up the topic confidently then let the expats do it ? I say, Why Not ?
This is just my personal opinion and I might be wrong. My apologies if some of you can't accept my postings. It is deeply regretted.
Once again, Do correct me if I'm wrong !
Best Regards,
Herman
------------------
Ad Astra Per Aspera
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hermie,
Those conditions would indeed cause frustration. It's not being shown openly, but there are signs around work of such frustration. Look around when checking in guys. A newspaper clipping about pay rises? Strikes? Petitions against the Union or Company? Flight Envelopes being left on board? However, if you choose to ignore them, or give other excuses for various occurences, then .... Ignorance is bliss.
Those conditions would indeed cause frustration. It's not being shown openly, but there are signs around work of such frustration. Look around when checking in guys. A newspaper clipping about pay rises? Strikes? Petitions against the Union or Company? Flight Envelopes being left on board? However, if you choose to ignore them, or give other excuses for various occurences, then .... Ignorance is bliss.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Another thing Hermie,
Sitting back and letting the expats get the job done for us is not the way to go.
They are here of their own free choice and have commitments and needs of their own. Expecting them to charge in and rescue the lot of us is not right. Our own guys are just going to have to get the job done.
Sitting back and letting the expats get the job done for us is not the way to go.
They are here of their own free choice and have commitments and needs of their own. Expecting them to charge in and rescue the lot of us is not right. Our own guys are just going to have to get the job done.
Guest
Posts: n/a
As usual there is Gladiator sitting afar snaping at the edges. The best thing is ignore him - he is short on facts so resorts to name calling (or lametable rymes) which means he has no argument and sure sign of imaturity.
The facts are we live in a changing world. It changes for Sq as much as CX, BA, UA or the rest. Fact - Conditions change. SQ are not alone and griping wont change that fact.
On balance there would not be so many of us in Asia doing what we want to do if things were as bad as the likes of Titan & Gladis would like you to think. They failed to hack it.
At least you can walk down Orchard Rd or Queens Road Central and have no fear of being raped - Gladis can't have the same piece of mind where he is. The kids will be safe unlike where Gladis is. Wont get shot by some maniac kid who was told off by Teach the day before. It all boils down to what you want and what you like.
You make value judgement based on what you see as important. Fortunately there are not too many Gladis's in the world who must find getting up in the morning a real bore... oh darling what can I bitch about today!!!!
Gladis babe wake up smell the coffeee....In the meantime stop occupying cyberspace with digijunk. FYI Yr ID is known
Happy days!
The facts are we live in a changing world. It changes for Sq as much as CX, BA, UA or the rest. Fact - Conditions change. SQ are not alone and griping wont change that fact.
On balance there would not be so many of us in Asia doing what we want to do if things were as bad as the likes of Titan & Gladis would like you to think. They failed to hack it.
At least you can walk down Orchard Rd or Queens Road Central and have no fear of being raped - Gladis can't have the same piece of mind where he is. The kids will be safe unlike where Gladis is. Wont get shot by some maniac kid who was told off by Teach the day before. It all boils down to what you want and what you like.
You make value judgement based on what you see as important. Fortunately there are not too many Gladis's in the world who must find getting up in the morning a real bore... oh darling what can I bitch about today!!!!
Gladis babe wake up smell the coffeee....In the meantime stop occupying cyberspace with digijunk. FYI Yr ID is known
Happy days!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sunny,
So what can actually be done ? Basically...
I understand letting the expats get the job done for us is DEFINITELY not the way to go, if all the pilots(how many SQ Pilots are there altogether) march together as one protesting for a better working enviroment they have no choice but to reconsider, right !! SO why can't they do that ?
They can't sack ALL the pilots nor get them packing back home to their country.
No pilots = Plaes will be left untouch = no money for company !
CARPE DIEM
Once again, Do correct me if I'm wrong !
Cheers,
Herman
------------------
Ad Astra Per Aspera
So what can actually be done ? Basically...
I understand letting the expats get the job done for us is DEFINITELY not the way to go, if all the pilots(how many SQ Pilots are there altogether) march together as one protesting for a better working enviroment they have no choice but to reconsider, right !! SO why can't they do that ?
They can't sack ALL the pilots nor get them packing back home to their country.
No pilots = Plaes will be left untouch = no money for company !
CARPE DIEM
Once again, Do correct me if I'm wrong !
Cheers,
Herman
------------------
Ad Astra Per Aspera
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hi,
I was reading this and I guess this is somewhat related to our topic of discussion.
---------------------------------------------
The States Tiger Scare
In a recent interview with The Straits Times, Minister for Home Affairs Mr Wong Kan Seng highlighted two things that showed that the government is actually not really serious with encouraging political participation and opinions. Although the S21 campaigns are swamped with together we make a difference, jargon, Wong said that the govt. should not be enslaved by public opinion and that communists (if there are any left) are to renounce their allegience to the defund Communist Party of Malaya? What this means that the government still has the final say even how stupid they sound, like the increase in the ministeršs pay even when our CPFs rates have not been restored as the economy has not recovered yet? >
We are not supposed to talk about race, religion or politics because these will be exploited by the Communalist and Communists elements that like a tiger would tear our peaceful society apart. Therefore we have no effective unions or NGOs as the government thinks that it is not suitable for Singapore. Whose Singapore are they talking about? The people of Singapore or the Singaporeans by the state and their Government Linked Companies (GLC) who waste our money to invest in their grandiose projects and charge us for it?
As long as the government plays up this tiger scare as seen in their National Education programmes, we will only be able to discuss about choked drains and killer litter instead of the issues of racism and elitism that is oppressing our lives in this country. If the government is really serious about killing the tiger it should have a South African version of the Truth Commission where people on both sides of the apartheid struggle come forward to confess the things they have done. Yes, the communalists and communist may have carried bombs, but the way the authorities have detained and clinically abused them under the internal security Act makes them no saint either.
Until then, any one who wishes to talk about politics openly would be labelled by the state establishment as a troublemaker aiming to destroy the nation. Under such circumstances, lifestyle magazines about sex and glamour would be a safer and more distracting option.
---------------------------------------------
This is so bloddy TRUE and currently this is happening in SQ !
Once again, Do correct me if I'm wrong !
Best Regards,
Herman
------------------
Ad Astra Per Aspera
I was reading this and I guess this is somewhat related to our topic of discussion.
---------------------------------------------
The States Tiger Scare
In a recent interview with The Straits Times, Minister for Home Affairs Mr Wong Kan Seng highlighted two things that showed that the government is actually not really serious with encouraging political participation and opinions. Although the S21 campaigns are swamped with together we make a difference, jargon, Wong said that the govt. should not be enslaved by public opinion and that communists (if there are any left) are to renounce their allegience to the defund Communist Party of Malaya? What this means that the government still has the final say even how stupid they sound, like the increase in the ministeršs pay even when our CPFs rates have not been restored as the economy has not recovered yet? >
We are not supposed to talk about race, religion or politics because these will be exploited by the Communalist and Communists elements that like a tiger would tear our peaceful society apart. Therefore we have no effective unions or NGOs as the government thinks that it is not suitable for Singapore. Whose Singapore are they talking about? The people of Singapore or the Singaporeans by the state and their Government Linked Companies (GLC) who waste our money to invest in their grandiose projects and charge us for it?
As long as the government plays up this tiger scare as seen in their National Education programmes, we will only be able to discuss about choked drains and killer litter instead of the issues of racism and elitism that is oppressing our lives in this country. If the government is really serious about killing the tiger it should have a South African version of the Truth Commission where people on both sides of the apartheid struggle come forward to confess the things they have done. Yes, the communalists and communist may have carried bombs, but the way the authorities have detained and clinically abused them under the internal security Act makes them no saint either.
Until then, any one who wishes to talk about politics openly would be labelled by the state establishment as a troublemaker aiming to destroy the nation. Under such circumstances, lifestyle magazines about sex and glamour would be a safer and more distracting option.
---------------------------------------------
This is so bloddy TRUE and currently this is happening in SQ !
Once again, Do correct me if I'm wrong !
Best Regards,
Herman
------------------
Ad Astra Per Aspera
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hermie,
You realise the nature of Singaporeans are such that they are hesitant to go against authority at the expense of their own liberty and personal rights. In other words, how many singaporean pilots are willing to risk their career and salaries for "a wrong to be righted"?
A feature (can't exactly call it a virtue here can you?) that I find afflicts most singaporeans is this docile nature of accepting whatever cr*p is heaped in their faces, simply because most are more concerned with how the circumstances affect their material gains (both in the short and long term). I can go on about how most singaporeans think and the regimentation that has been sub (or un)consciously drummed into them but perhaps you might want to examine it closely yourself. If the majority of singaporean pilots maintain such a mindset, isn't it obvious why nothing has been done? Furthermore, strikes/ industrial actions are banned in singapore, even a group of more than 6 people in the streets may constitute an "illegal gathering". It would be a likely scene to witness 1,000 SQ pilots marching through the CBD and picketing the SQ office isn't it?
The fact would be that SQ realises the reluctance of singaporean pilots to deal outside their comfort zone and as such, is able to deal so high-handedly with its pilots, (barring the expat community who fortunately believe in the concept of democracy better than singaporeans do).
Put quite simply, it's not a matter of what they can do now but HOW they go about doing it. Dealing with constraints at every turn (the very landmark of a democracy!), it requires more tact than simply shouting at this point in time. Any views?
You realise the nature of Singaporeans are such that they are hesitant to go against authority at the expense of their own liberty and personal rights. In other words, how many singaporean pilots are willing to risk their career and salaries for "a wrong to be righted"?
A feature (can't exactly call it a virtue here can you?) that I find afflicts most singaporeans is this docile nature of accepting whatever cr*p is heaped in their faces, simply because most are more concerned with how the circumstances affect their material gains (both in the short and long term). I can go on about how most singaporeans think and the regimentation that has been sub (or un)consciously drummed into them but perhaps you might want to examine it closely yourself. If the majority of singaporean pilots maintain such a mindset, isn't it obvious why nothing has been done? Furthermore, strikes/ industrial actions are banned in singapore, even a group of more than 6 people in the streets may constitute an "illegal gathering". It would be a likely scene to witness 1,000 SQ pilots marching through the CBD and picketing the SQ office isn't it?
The fact would be that SQ realises the reluctance of singaporean pilots to deal outside their comfort zone and as such, is able to deal so high-handedly with its pilots, (barring the expat community who fortunately believe in the concept of democracy better than singaporeans do).
Put quite simply, it's not a matter of what they can do now but HOW they go about doing it. Dealing with constraints at every turn (the very landmark of a democracy!), it requires more tact than simply shouting at this point in time. Any views?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Combi pilot
Your opioniated arrogance is just typical of your kind (you know what I mean).You, the know all judge all, fail to see that there are other opinions. (Facts speaks louder than Farts) Your behaviour belies your bad upbringing.
Champion of democracy!, principles before material gain!. My ___!
When push comes to shove, guess who'll be on the first flt out.
No prizes.
My advice to all expats, if Singapore does not agree with you, simple, piss off!
The doors' wide open.
Your opioniated arrogance is just typical of your kind (you know what I mean).You, the know all judge all, fail to see that there are other opinions. (Facts speaks louder than Farts) Your behaviour belies your bad upbringing.
Champion of democracy!, principles before material gain!. My ___!
When push comes to shove, guess who'll be on the first flt out.
No prizes.
My advice to all expats, if Singapore does not agree with you, simple, piss off!
The doors' wide open.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Established,
...Speaking of shouting in my last post...
Opinionated arrogance? Oh dear, now look who's trying to shove his opinions onto others.
I have merely stated MY opinion of this whole issue, which is clearly what people do on a forum. I have made my deductions and come to an opinion following what I understand and have read. Need I place a disclaimer at the end of my every post saying, "this is just my opinion, so please don't punish me for thinking as so"? Nah..I didn't think so.
If you can't accept that others hold differing opinons from yourself, then go vent your frustrations elsewhere. You do seem quite uptight, maybe you need a little holiday from pprune to quit annoying everyone else with your bitter posts. We'd like some quality discussion here, so if you're not up to it..
Go fetch.
...Speaking of shouting in my last post...
Opinionated arrogance? Oh dear, now look who's trying to shove his opinions onto others.
I have merely stated MY opinion of this whole issue, which is clearly what people do on a forum. I have made my deductions and come to an opinion following what I understand and have read. Need I place a disclaimer at the end of my every post saying, "this is just my opinion, so please don't punish me for thinking as so"? Nah..I didn't think so.
If you can't accept that others hold differing opinons from yourself, then go vent your frustrations elsewhere. You do seem quite uptight, maybe you need a little holiday from pprune to quit annoying everyone else with your bitter posts. We'd like some quality discussion here, so if you're not up to it..
Go fetch.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Established, you sound as though you are not getting enough Bran in the morning.
If you'd like the expats to leave then simple, pay off their bonds and refund their bank guarantees. Send me a cheque and I am outta this dump, that will make us both happy. Before you say why did I join then, well if I knew exactly what I was getting into I wouldn't have joined, but does anyone know ALL the facts before joining any Company, I doubt it. SIA is obviously aware that it lies at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to good employers and instead of trying to improve the situation it retains its employees by posing the constant threat of financially crippling you if you wish to leave.
So Established a cheque for SIN$192,000 please and your wish is my command.
If you'd like the expats to leave then simple, pay off their bonds and refund their bank guarantees. Send me a cheque and I am outta this dump, that will make us both happy. Before you say why did I join then, well if I knew exactly what I was getting into I wouldn't have joined, but does anyone know ALL the facts before joining any Company, I doubt it. SIA is obviously aware that it lies at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to good employers and instead of trying to improve the situation it retains its employees by posing the constant threat of financially crippling you if you wish to leave.
So Established a cheque for SIN$192,000 please and your wish is my command.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Established....
So I guess in Singapore No Opinion, No Cry ?
Reads ... in Singapore if you form your own opinion, then you have not been brought up correctly.
This is the mindset of the locals, brought about through Government conditioning.
[This message has been edited by VH DSJ (edited 12 May 2001).]
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Your opioniated arrogance is just typical of your kind </font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2"> Your behaviour belies your bad upbringing </font>
This is the mindset of the locals, brought about through Government conditioning.
[This message has been edited by VH DSJ (edited 12 May 2001).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
Landing Lights, your Orchard Road is nothing but a convention for con men and hookers.
I live in the free world, you are a prisoner. I am free to speak, you live in fear. I don't have metal bars covering my windows, you do. You lock the entrance of your house with a 1/4 kilo pad lock, I often leave mine unlocked.
My children do not have to urinate in their clothing at school as is expected in the Singapore school system, your children have to avoid drinking water at school.
Don't even compare the two. Lastly don't for one second even think I ever tried to keep my ID secret.
I am proud for everyone to know who I am. I am the SIA slayer, the one that cost SIA millions and millions of dollars (744 TCC 712M).
On PPRuNe, ever since it's creation, I am the founding father of truth about Singapore, SIA, and the slave trade in the Lee-public of Lee-ingapore. I am the reason PPRuNe Far East forum says, "specially Singapore".
I am even hero to many locals that only dare communicate with me whilst outside the Lee-public.
You can run but you can't hide, we will tell the truth, we tell it as it is, information hiway is here to stay, PPRuNe is here to stay.
Pilots around the world have the right to know what they are getting into. We to your eyes are the opposition (not allowed in Singapore context). We create a reason for the potential candidate to do more research about SIA, to ask around about what SIA is really about.
This is as opposed to the illusion, glitter and the candy coating they use to cheat a potential pilot candidate into signing a contract.
SIA's aim is exploitation.
I live in the free world, you are a prisoner. I am free to speak, you live in fear. I don't have metal bars covering my windows, you do. You lock the entrance of your house with a 1/4 kilo pad lock, I often leave mine unlocked.
My children do not have to urinate in their clothing at school as is expected in the Singapore school system, your children have to avoid drinking water at school.
Don't even compare the two. Lastly don't for one second even think I ever tried to keep my ID secret.
I am proud for everyone to know who I am. I am the SIA slayer, the one that cost SIA millions and millions of dollars (744 TCC 712M).
On PPRuNe, ever since it's creation, I am the founding father of truth about Singapore, SIA, and the slave trade in the Lee-public of Lee-ingapore. I am the reason PPRuNe Far East forum says, "specially Singapore".
I am even hero to many locals that only dare communicate with me whilst outside the Lee-public.
You can run but you can't hide, we will tell the truth, we tell it as it is, information hiway is here to stay, PPRuNe is here to stay.
Pilots around the world have the right to know what they are getting into. We to your eyes are the opposition (not allowed in Singapore context). We create a reason for the potential candidate to do more research about SIA, to ask around about what SIA is really about.
This is as opposed to the illusion, glitter and the candy coating they use to cheat a potential pilot candidate into signing a contract.
SIA's aim is exploitation.