Singapore Airlines, LTD vs. Mr. ***** (USA)

[Gladiator]

In the matter of:
Singapore Airlines, LTD. vs. Mr. xxx
June 24, 1997

Following are public information as per freedom of information act.
Mr. xxx a former SIA pilot sued in the United States Federal court for breach of contract. The following are the deposition taken by Singapore Airlines lawyers from the defendant.
All in original form with the names deleted.

Q: Could you please state your name, sir.
A: xxx
Q: Where do you live Mr. xxx?
A: I'm a resident of xxx.
Q: Are you presently employed?
A: Yes.
Q: By whome?
A: xxx
Q: For how long have you been employed by xxx?
A: Seniority date is based on August of last year, August xx, I believe.
Q: Of 1995?
A: Yes
Q: When you say "seniority date"
A: I'm sorry, last year, 1996.
Q: I'm sorry, okay. When you say "seniority date," what does that mean?
A: Date of hire versus date of seniority is based on training completion.
Q: What was your date of hire
A: Training began in June.
Q: Of 96?
A: 20th believe in 96.
Q: What is your position at xxx?
A: First officer, pilot.
Q: First officer, pilot?
A: Well, all of the positions in the cockpit are referred to as pilot. The actual seat position is first officer.
Q: What type of seat positions are there as a pilot?
A: Captain, first officer, and in this case flight engineer.
Q: Did your training last from 6/29 - strike that. For what period of time did your training last?
A: from June 20th, approx, to completion was Sep 18th.
Q: That was training for what?
A: Airbus 300 B-4 initial training as required by the FARs, Federal Aviation Regulations.
Q: Is there some type of license that's required to be a first officer?
A: To be a first officer, the minimum required license is a commercial pilot's certificate issued by the FAA.
Q: Do you have a commercial pilot'd certificate?
A: I have an Airline Transport pilot certificate, which is the more advanced and most advanced.
Q: I'm sorry it's a what?
A: Air transport pilot, commonly referred to as ATP.
Q: When did you get your ATP certificate?
A: May of 1993, May 5th, I believe, but may.
Q: Did you have a commercial pilot's certificate prior to that time?
A: Yes, it's required.
Q: When did you get your commercial pilot's certificate?
A: It was in Arkansas, 1986, if I remember right, summer 86.
Q: Have you ever had your deposition taken before, Mr. xxx?
A: No.
Q: Let me go through some ground rules with you.
First and most importantly, if you don't understand a question, tell me you don't understand it, okay?
A: Uh-huh, yes.
Q: That's the second ground rule.
A: Second rule.
Q: Shaking your head or nodding your head is not audible and therefore can't be taken down by the court reporter, so if a question calls for a yes or no answer and you feel comfortable answering yes or no, it's better to say "yes" or "no" rather than nod your head or say "uh-hah" or "huh-uh," okay?
A: Thank you.
Q: Third, if you need a break at any time, please let me know.
A: okay.
Q: And finally, there will be numerous times when you will be able to anticipate where I'm going with a question in the middle of my question. It is important that you let me finish my question and not talk over me, because it's very difficult for the court reporter to take down two people talking at once.
A: Understood.
Q: As a first officer on an A300 B-4 what are your duties and responsibilities?
A: I'm responsible directly to the captain of that particular flight. I'm responsible to the safety of the passengers and the aircraft.
Q: What is your present salary?
A: 33,000 US dollars per year?
Q: What was your salary at the time of hire?
A: At the time of hire was on per diem. When we got our seniority date.
Q: let me back up, because we've used several dates here for hire. What was your salary when you first started working for xxx?
A: There was no salary. it was a per diem of $50 per day in training.
Q: $50 per day?
A: That's correct.
Q: When did you first begin drawing a salary?
A: August of 96.
Q: August 18, 96?
A: Correct.
Q: What was your salary at that time?
A: 33,000 per year.
Q: Are you up for any increase in the near future?
A: None reported. In other words, rumor mill, which doesn't count, of course.
Q: Are you entitled to any bonuses or anything of that nature?
A: No. To clarify, per diem, of course, of $1.25 per hour for each hour off station that we don't return station the same day.
Q: Why don't you trace your employment history for me prior tot he time you started working at xxx.
A: How far back would you like?
Q: Did you graduate collage?
A: Yes.
Q: When you graduate college?
A: I'm graduated from the university of Florida in March 1981.
Q: Why don't you briefly trace your employment history from that point forward, if you can.
A: From that point forward, of course. As soon as I graduated, I was sworn into United Air Force as an officer, entered undergraduate navigator training Mather Air Force Base, California, graduated from that training as a distinguished graduate. I was number two in my class. I then went on to what's called-let me use the right term-replacement training in the C-130 Hercules aircraft at Little Rock Air Force base, Arkansas which started in Jan of 82. I completed that training and was assigned to McChord Air base, Tacoma, Washington as a navigator, upgraded quickly to instructor navigator, was promoted to first lieutenant and captain at the appropriate points.
Q: What year did you leave the Air Force?
A: left the Air Force Feb 1987.
Q: Okay.
A: Had a short term position with Denver Veteran's Hospital as a cpmputer specialist working for the chief of cardiology.
During that time I was waiting for word from the Boeing Company as to my results of my interview and was hired and started work with boeing as an instructor for the 747 on June 1, 1987.
Q: Okay.
Rest to follow.

[Gladiator]

A: My responsibilities there dealt with navigation, instrumentation, and avionics, writing manuals, preparing courses, conducting courses, designing training materials, and instructing.
Q: These were courses to-
A: Related to the B747-400 and 200 models.
Q: For pilots?
A: For pilots and in the case of the 300 model prior, that would be for flight engineers as well.
Q: You had gotten your commercial license prior to beginning work for Boeing?
A: That's correct, commercial certificate as well as instrument rating.
Q: Instrument rating?
A: That's correct.
Q: What is that?
A: The FAA has pilot certificates and ratings. The certificates refer to a level of experience. The ratings are documents required to operate an aircraft in certain situations. An instrument rating allows a pilot to operate under instrument conditions, in other words, solely by reference to instruments.
Q: After Boeing what did you do? When did you leave Boeing?
A: I left Boeing Nov 1993.
Q: And at that point you went to Singapore Airlines?
A: That's correct.
Q: What is xxx airlines?
A: That was a fictious company name.
Q: Was that a company that you owned or ran?
A: No. It's a fictious company name I used to determine whether or not Singapore Airlines was reporting me to other companies that might be inquiring as to my position and in what way they responded.
Q: You created the name of a fictious airline and you used your own address for that fictious airline?
A: That's correct.
Q: And the reason for that was to see how Singapore Airlines was inquiring regarding your application?
A: No, to see how Singapore Airlines would respond to other airline's at the time I was seeking employment, if they made inquiry.
Q: To see if they called up another airline to do an evaluation?
A: No
Q: I don't understand.
A: Okay, from the period of Jan through June of 96, last year, I was looking for employment. During that period I was concerned that any employer or prospective employer inquiring into my performance with Singapore airlines mught get a negative report, so to determine what kind of report they might get-
Q: You set up a false name to see what Singapore Airlines would say about you?
A: Fictious name, yes.
Q: So there never was a xxx airlines?
A: No.
Q: Did you inquire to Singapore Airlines on behalf of xxx airlines about yourself?
A: Exactly.
Q: What did Singapore Airlines say?
A: That I was a first officer, my date of employment, and that I left prior to termination of the bond agreement.
Q: Was there anything in the way that Singapore Airlines responded to your inquiries as xxx airlines that you're claiming in this ligigation violated any rights of yours?
A: It would depend on the holder of such letter. In other words, I can't judge how someone else receiving that letter would respond to it.
Q: Do you know if xxx made inquiries of Singapore Airlines?
A: I do not know.
Q: Did you ever represent to Singapore Airlines, prior to the time you left Singapore Airlines, that you had been associated with the business called xxx airlines?
A: No
Q: Did anyone advise you about setting up xxx airlines?
A: No.
Q: Did you write a letter on behalf of this fictious conpany to Singapore Airlines requesting an evaluation about yourself?
A: Not an evaluation, no.
Q: What did you request?
A: The inquiry was purely on a matter of whether or not - a verification of employment and performance, that's it.
Q: Why did you decide to leave the Boeing company?
A: To work for Singapore Airlines.
Q: Why Singapore Airlines? Well strike that. Before we get into that, why would a job at Singapore Airlines be preferable to working at the Boeing company, in your mind?
A: Flight, it involved flight. I wished to fly.
Q: You wanted to be a pilot?
A: I wanted to be a transport pilot. I already was a pilot.
Q: What interested you in Singapore Airlines?
A: The interest in Singapore Airlines began back in 87 to 88, during which period I conducted five classes for Singapore Airlines as an employee of the Boeing company, as an instructor, simulator instructor, on the Boeing 747-400. The lasses in 87 were conducted in Montreal, Canada and singapore in their Paya Lebar facility.
Q: Where is that facility located?
A: Singapore.
Q: Is paya Lebar -
A: Paya Lebar, it refers to an air base.
Q: What city is that in?
A: Singapore is a city/state. The entire island is a city. It's all in its own.
Q: What part of the city was the facility in?
A: If I remember right, the air base was located on the north - just east of the north-central portion of the island.
Q: How long were you in Singapore in 98?
A: Three occurrences, approx two weeks each.
Q: Where did you stay?
A: At Shangrila Hotel in the Orchard Road district.
Q: Pardon?
A: The Orchard Road district.
Q: What is the Orchard Road District like?
A: It's what they refer to as the central business district. it's the best-kept area of Singapore for the tourism industry..
Q: How far away from Orchard Road is the Paya Lebar facility?
A: It was approx 20 minutes, if I recall, van ride.
Q: How would you get from youyr hotel to the facility?
A: A company-provided-Singapore-provided van.
Q: A van?
A: Yes.
Q: So you drove?
A: No.
Q: You were a passenger in a van?
A: That is correct.
Q: Did you like Singapore in 1988?
A: Yes. In 1988 Singapore, shopping there was like shopping in a third world country, as I would imagine. In other words, goods were low priced, the exchange rate on the dollar was very good at $1.98 approx to theUS dollar. The people treated us well, they took us out, wined us, dined us. It was very nice.
Q: Was your wife with you at that time?
A: No. Unfortunately, due to the Boeing strike in Oct 88 plans to bring hewere foiled. There was a late delivery of an aircraft.
Q: Did you inquire in 88 about working in Singapore?
A: Yes, in 88 and 87.
Q: Who did you talk to?
A: Both cases, most of the conversation were with captain L McC (LM).
Q: Who is LM?
A: LM now has the position of assistant director of flight operations for training. At the time he was the chief pilot for - chief pilot. I forgot what for. Each chief pilot has a responsibility of either operations or training and then a fleet of aircraft that go with it.
Q: What nationality is LM?
A: LM was born in Singapore. If I remember correctly, his father is Irish or Scottish.
Q: Is he 100 percent caucasian?
A: No, not that that matters, but not - I don'y believe so.
Q: You were there for two weeks then in 88, one week -
A: Three visits of two weeks each, approx.
Q: So you were there for six weeks?
A: Yes.
Q: What is the language of singapore?
A: That;s a good question. The official language of Singapore is mandarin Chinese. The business language is English, the queen's English, and then also there are languages - various dialects of Chinese, Hindi, and Indonesian - I forgot what they call it, Indonesian Malay, Malay.
Q: When you were there in 88, did everyone that you dealt with speak English?
A: Yes, they all spoke some form of English.
Q: Did you find that to be true when you lived in Singapore as well?
A: The population on the whole?
Q: Yes.
A: No.
Q: How about the population that you dealt with at Singapore airlines?
A: Yes. They spoke some form of English, some better than others, most not very well as far as grammer and so forth.
Q: What about Singapore after those visits in 88 attracted you?
A: In the discussions I got from LM and the pilots I was training, that singapore is a very clean country, a very safe country, a democracy, a melting pot in that they had people from all points of asia and the british Commonwealth. It was a good place to love, a cheap place to live, and a great place to fly, and a good retirement package would result at the end.
Q: Who told you this, LM?
A: LM, as well as other conversations with various pilots i trained.
Q: This was during the 88 time period?
A: 87 - 88, yes.
Q: Did LM and these other pilots tell that to you in the context od a job interview or more in conversation?
A: Conversation concerning employment and my desires to fly.
Q: But it was not an official job application, it was asking captain LM: tell me what you think about singapore?
A: It was not an official job application. It was inquiries on how it is to live and work in Singapore.
Rest to follow.

[Gladiator]

Q: Do you know if Mr. LM had ever spent significant time in the United States?
A: I don't know - I have no idea of LM's travels, how much time he spent in the United States.
Q: How about the other pilots that you talked with?
A: Same thing, I know they had been there.
Q: Can you recall the names of any of these other pilots in the 87-88 time period who told you that Singapore was clean, safe, a democracy, a melting pot, or any portion thereof?
A: One of my students is dead now, but the other student, Peter DeC - I don't know how to spell that last name, and I don't recall the other two students that I taught one-on-one in Singapore, and MC, first officer AA are the two I recall.
Q: P DeC was a student of yours while you were at Boeing?
A: That's correct.
Q: So you would have had these conversations with him in the context of your training him at boeing?
A: True.
Q: And MC-
A: MC.
Q: How did you know him?
A: Also a student. That student was in Singapore.
Q: And AA?
A: Also a student.
Q: Again, these would have been students of yours while you were at Boeing, and you would have had conversations with them about singapore in conjuction with the time that you were training there?
A: That's correct. These individuals would be referred to as senior, in that they were being promoted to this aircraft, and they were being trained at this point in their acquisition.
Q: But once again, it was all in the context of your training them as an employee of Boeing?
A: Not official job interview, this is correct.
Q: After 87 and 88 did you keep in contact with any of these Singapore airlines personnel that you met while training?
A: I was not in active contact with them per se on a regular basis. on accasion they would have occasion to visit the Boeing facility and make a point to say hello.
Q: Did you have any particular-
A: If I may, also the DFO, director of flight operations, his name is M DeV, I believe, while we were designing the 777, I was on the flight deck engineering team and was one of those assigned to explain to him the aspects of the flight management system.
Q: And-
A:He's also one of the individuals involved with MVA process at a future point.
Q: At what point of time did you meet him with the 777 on-flight engineering team?
A: Flight deck engineering.
Q: Excuse me.
A: That would have been early 96 or late 95, and it was only a one day visit, at our facility anyhow. he was there for other things.
Q: So that would have been after the point you worked at - brgan working at singapore Airlines?
A: No, I'm sorry, did I say - strike the dates. That would have been - his visit would have been early 93, late 92. It was prior to any interview.
Q: Did you have any discussions with him about singapore?
A: At that time?
Q: yes.
A: No. My discussions with M DeV would have been in Montreal in 87. he was there for training as well.
Q: And any discussions you would have had with him would have been in the context of you training him?
A: That's correct. he preferred me over his instructor.
Q: Did anything in particular happen in June of 92 with LM regarding Singapore Airlines?
A: The interview process began in 93, if I remember right.
Q: Did you find out about a vacancy from him at that time?
A: When I left singapore - trained in Nov, began in Oct - Nov of 88, they have a once-monthly office meeting or office get-together, and at that time I was told if i was serious about my application to Singapore Airlines in the future that i should have an air transport pilot's certificate, I assumed also air transport, and at that time to contact them.
Q: Did you prior to leaving Boeing, inquire about any other airlines besides singapore?
A: I had interview - two interviews with United airlines in 89, I believe, but was unsuccessful.
Q: Did you apply to any other airlines besides United airlines prior to the time you were emplyed at Singapore?
A: Yes, and I can't be specific. I can't remember who specifically other than United.
Q: After these inquiries in 88 did you do any independent research about singapore?
A: After the interview process in June of 92 I did.
Q: Let's talk about the period between 88 and 92. did you do any research in regard to Singapore at that time?
A: No.
Q: Did you know, for instance, who the president of singapore was?
A: Not at that time.
Q: Did you have any sence of the population of singapore at that time?
A: Just on my experience in 88, which was roughly 2 million people.
Q: Did the country appear crowded?
A: No.
Q: Did you get a chance to look at peopl's housing in Singapore, outside of the central business district, while you were there in 87 and 88?
A: No. One moment, I'm trying to recall when - there was one point when LM and his wife G took me about, and I'm trying remember when that was. That was in the interview process, sorry.
Q: Did you read any newspapers while you were in Singapore for those six weeks?
A: I may have. i don't recall anything in particular that stands out.
Q: Prior to the time you went to Singapore in 87 did you have any preconceptions about what Singapore was like?
A: No
Q: Showing you what's been marked as exhibit 1, can you identify what this document is, please.
A: This is an application for employment for Singapore airlines that I filled out, I believe - yeah, that I filled out.
Rest to follow

[Methusalah]

Keep it coming Gladiator. For the benefit of those that are not familiar with Singapore, the Shangri-La Hotel is no where near the CBD, a good S$5:00 taxi ride away from the CDB in fact, even in 1988. The Official Language of Singapore is English and the National Language is Malay, (not any dialect of Chinese). Minor points but good for backgound.

Have not had time to read all the post in detail but really looking forward to it.

[This message has been edited by Methusalah (edited 31 August 1999).]

[Gladiator]

Q: And the date of this application is June 93; is that correct? Take a look at the last para, that will help you.
A: Yes.
Q: And that's your signature-
A: Yes.
Q: -On the last page?
A: That's correct.
Q: In part six on the last page there is an "A" and a "B" above your signature, one says "Commercial License," and you have circled "with," "Instrument Rating," and B is "Senior Commercial Pilot's License/Airline Transport Pilot's rating, then there is an aircraft type. Do you see That?
A: Yes, I do.
Q: Were you asking for information for both or just A?
A: I was informed when I asked the question to fill this out to circle that, to fill it out in this manner.
Q: Did you have a senior commercial pilot license?
A: There is no equivalent of such license in the US.
Q: You did have an Airline Transport Pilot's License?
A: Correct, US.
Q: And in the US do you need to have it rated for a particular aircraft type?
A: No.
Q: Is that a requirement in Singapore?
A: Again, a certificate is seperate from ratings on a certificate which reflects gross experience.
Q: Plaese explain what certificate has to do with - the difference between certificate and to do with my question?
A: That and the words "certificate" and "License" are the same thing. A rating refers to a particular aircraft only. An Air transport certificate allows a pilot to conduct certain kinds of operation that a commercial pilot would not, and a commercial will allow certain operations to be conducted that a private pilot certificate would not.
Q: If you have a commercial pilot's license does that mean that you can fly any type of aircraft in the US?
A: As a commercial pilot with a certificate you are authorized to fly as a first officer for any type of transport aircraft, or as a single-piloted vehicle you can operate as a pilot in command or captain, if you will.
Q: In the US, for instance, if you wanted to fly a 747 and you had a senior commercial pilot's license and you were a first officer - I mean a commercial pilot's license, excuse me, and you were a first officer, would there be any governmental requirements to have a certain amount of training time on a specific model of plane prior to serving as a first officer?
A: To be specific, where I believe you're asking the question, aircraft operated under part 121 transportation of passengersrequires all crew members to go through initial training, regardless of the rating on their certificate.
Q: That's true in Singapore as well?
A: Yes. One note on the regulations with Singapore, we were - as far as I know, no pilot has actually issued a set or made available a set of their regulations, as here in the US you can go to a bookstore and buy them.
Q: Is it fair to say that Singapore Airlines was the airline that you would have preferred to work for more than any other airline, prior to the time you filled out your application as exhibit 1?
A: I would prefer to work for a US carrier.
Q: Is it the fact that there were no job openings with a US carrier that caused you to apply with singapore airlines?
A: Based on not necessarily job openeings, but the requirements that individual airlines were requiring at the time versus my hours at the time.
Q: Did US airlines have more stringent requirements than Singapore airlines did?
A: It depends on the airline. United - and to this day United only requires a commercial pilot's certificate, instrument rating with multi-engine rating, and 300 total hours of flying experience.
Q: Did you meet those requirements prior to the time you applied with Singapore airlines?
A: Oh, yes. That's why I also applied to them. Other airlines had other requirements.
Q: More stringent?
A: Yes. Those are quite low, so, yes, more than that.
Q: Were there other domestic carriers that you did not qualify for in June of 1993?
A: Yes, but there are numerous carriers I did qualify for as well.
Q: What were some of the carriers you did not qualify for?
A: Did not would be American airlines, delta airlines, Continental, approx half, I would say, of the major carriers. A definition, a little bit of a definition, now, as I understand it, there are major carriers and regional carriers and commuter airlines in the United States. Major carriers include not only domestic but domestic international operations, regional - Horizon Airlines is a regional carrier - commuters. What used to be san Juan airlines out here would be considered a commuter.
Q: And you would have certainly preferred to work for a domestic major carrier than you would for Singapore Airlines in June of 93, is that correct?
A: As much as expectations were reasonable.
Q: What do you mean by that?
A: Major carriers - like I described, United Airlines only requires 300 hours total time, et cetera. Other major carriers required more, so expectations of working for ceratin major carriers would not be reasonable.
Q: I understand because you would not qualify?
A: Correct.
Q: Would you have preferred to work for a regional carrier than Singapore Airlines?
A: That was an option at that time that I decided not to take.
Q: Did you inquire about openings for regional carriers?
A: I looked into the process. I didn't make formal application.
Q: Why is that?
A: The process involved expense that I didn't care to take.
Q: What was the expense involved in applying for a regional carrier?
A: It begins with a $500 evaluation, subsequent to that, if there is an on-sight interview, you have to pay for it on your own to get there, followed by training which you pay for yourself, which you pay for on your own, that could go from 15,000 to 25,000.
Q: So the requirements to obtain a job for a regional carrier were not attractive to you?
A: comparatively.
Q: What major carriers would you have qualified for besides United, that you recall, in june of 93?
A: To the extend I know, Northwest Airlines and Alaska Airlines, possibly.
Q: You're not sure about Alaska?
A: Not sure. That's all I can recall.
Q: Did you msake application to Northwest Airlines?
A: No, I did not.
Q: Why not?
A: Had colleagues from the Boeing Company which worked for Northwest as well as former students that were in management that informed me that I would most likely not be successful.
Q: Because your hours were not sufficient enough?
A: They didn't believe so.
Q: What were Singapore airlines hour requirements?
A: I never knew that they had any. The requirements, like I was saying earlier, that I was given were an ATP certificate, and ATP certificate requires 1500 hours total time minimum.
Q: Going back to exhibit 1, on the first page it says: "How did you come to know about this vacancy?" And you put Captain LM June 92. Does that refresh your recollection in any way about anything that might have happened in June of 92 with captain LM?
A: I wish it did. I don't.
Q: Do you recall speaking with anybody prior to the time you filled out this application about Singapore airlines?
A: Anything else than already mentioned?
Q: Yes.
A: No, no.
Q: Did you speak with captain LM shortly before filling this out?
A: Either - well, probably LM as well as other administrative types working for the airline and responsible for this.
Q: Do you have any recollection of any of those conversations?
A: Other than how to fill it out, that would have been it.
Q: Do you recall who you talked to about how to fill it out?
A: There was a lady, I can't remember her name now. She's responsible for all the cadet pilot hiring in the personnel department in what's called the airline house. I can't recall her name. Sha was one of the people I talked to.
Rest to follow

[Gladiator]

Q: Do you recall what she told you?
A: It was specifics dealing wuth their differences in terminology referring to instrument ratings and such, as well as - there was no equivalent for it in the US, so I wanted to make sure I was filling it out properly.
Q: Do you have any recollection as to why in June of 93 you went ahead and filled out an application as opposed to some other time?
A: Again, the ATP was a requirement, based on our conversations in 88, and that wasn't obtained until May 93.
Q: It wasn't because someone informed you that there was some type of opening at that point in time?
A: No. As we talk along, I'm trying to remember what happened in 92. If anything, there was a phone call to give LM a update on my pregress toward the ATP and see if there was an opening.
Q: Just so I'm clear, that's not a memory, that's a guess?
A: I'm dragging up a memory. That's the best I can do on the memory of what was going on at that time. It's just a reaffirmation that they are interested in people still and the ATP was still a requirement at thattime.
Q: My question is do you recall that at that time, or is that just your best guess at what happened?
A: That's my best recollection of what happened at that time.
Q: So you have a specific recollection of that conversation?
A: That's about it though.
Q: Anything else that you recall happening in that conversation?
A: If If I di, I'll let you know.
Q: What happened next after this application was filled out in regard to your employment with Singapore Airlines that you recall?
A: After application was received?
Q: After you filled it out and sent it in.
A: I was set up for an interview. I was informed about the interview by LM, and that's mostly because the transportation would be via a delivery flight.
Q: What's a delivery flight?
A: When a customerreceives an aeroplane that's been produced at boeing at Everett Field, they go through a process of acceptance, and then once it's delivered it's flown home and it's what's referred to as a nonrevenue flight, and because it's nonrevenue, it involves a manager's approval and so forth, and i took that flight, that nonrevenue flight, to go to my interview.
Q:When did this interview occur?
A: June. It was a three day period that I was physically in Singapore, June or July. I just can't remember.
Q: Shortly after this application was filled out?
A: Right.
Q: And just so we're 100 percent clear on the record, this interview took place in Singapore?
A: That is correct.
Q: Where did it take place?
A: It was a two-phase interview. the first phaseinvolved a one-on-one office setting with Ms. DY and captain LM, during which time they shared with me some information that was similar to what I had heard already as far as the working condition, the life-style, and so forth. Their major concern at that time was my ability to make good cost-of-living expenses relation to the rather low pay as a cadet. They described to me how long it would be as a cadet, depending on the fleet, and at what point the increases occured, and they wanted to know how I was going to be able to survive, so to speak, on that low of a salary, and I informed tham I had savings that would take care of the differential. Following that there was a board-type interview, another set of tables set in a U-shape where various managers, including the two I had already talked to, plus M DeV. I think I remeber a BS.
Q: Can you spell that please.
A: B..S... Another captain Y, not related to DY. Captain Y is a chief pilot of the A310 training, and other senior managers, I didn't know all of which.
Q: How many people were at this board interview?
A: Approx a dezen.
Q: Anything else beyond these two interviews while you were in Singapore inregard to your job application?
A: On the last day, or second day, LM and GM took me out to dinner and then drove me around a portion of town, and I really can't remember where it was. Dinner was in a neighborhood-style what they call hawker center. A hawker center would be an open-air cafeteria. What would another word be for it? What's the French - anyhow, open cafe style, local food, local preparations, trying to get my opinion or feelings or sensations about that type of eating setting, which I didn't have any problem with, and then drove me around- it was nighttime, drove me around the area, local neighborhood there, where there was several tall apartment buildings, basically describing to me that this is the type of place I would live and did I have any problems withit, and I couln't see any, tall apartment complexes.
Q: Did you go in?
A: Never went in any.
Q: Did you ask to go?
A: Didn't presume they had the capability of being able to show me one.
Q: But did you ask to go in one?
A: No, they are private residents.
Q: Or into a hallway or inside at all?
A: I inquired of what the're like inside. They said spacious and clean, nothing in particular.
Q: They told you they were spacious and clean?
A: Yeah, but nothing special, nothing fancy. In other words, I was not led to believe I would be living in the Ritz, but I was also led to believe I wouldn't be living in a destitute area either.
Q: And you don't know if captain LM has ever lived anywhere outside singapore?
A: I beleive he was educated in England. Other than that, no.
Q: You had two interviews and then were taken out to dinner. Any other contact with singapore Airlines people while you were in Singapore that you can recall?
A: Other than administrative staff responsible for the processing of the application, the medicals, you know.
Q: Where did you stay?
A: Stayed at the Paramount hotel located on what's called the Marine Parade district.
Q: What's that district like?
A: I'm sorry didn't hear the question.
Q: What's that district like?
A: Like, it varies, parts - in the back of the hotel, or the north side of the hotel, is the rather run-down traditional Chinese shop area. On the south side of the hotel is a brand-new mall, shopping mall, apartment, et cetera, local condominiums.
Q: While you were there for your interview process did you see both the north side and the south side of the hotel?
A: Yes, the north side were shops, basically, and the south side.
Q: You said that the north side was a traditional chinese somewhat run-down area?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you observe that fact while you were there?
A: Yes.
Q: How far was the Paramount hotel from your interview location?
A: If I remember right, it's approx 15 km.
Q: How did you get from the hotel to your interview?
A: It was Singapore-provided transportation.
Q: Did they pay for your hotel stay?
A: Yes.
Q: And they provided the flight over and back?
A: Yes.
Q: Did your wife come with you?
A: No.
Q: Why not?
A: She didn't want to take the time off from work. Vacation time available was short.
Q: Where did your wife work?
A: She worked at xxx.
Q: What is that?
A: It is a xxx.
Q: What did she do at the xxx?
A: Bookkeeper is what she started as, and at the time she was a comptroller.
Q: What was she making at the time she left to go to Singapore?
A: Roughly $36,000 a year, depending on bonuses.
Rest to follow.

[BEagle]

I'm sure that there's a point to this lengthy discourse - could you possibly elucidate? Thanks!

[Gladiator]

Q: Where is she working now?
A: xxx
Q: What's her position?
A: She's a bookkeeper.
Q: What's her present salary?
A: $33,000 per year, depending on bonuses, which aren't very good this time around.
Q: Why the decrease in pay?
A: Reduced responsibility. The position she had when she left was no longer available. It was occupied.
Q: Let's talk about your first interview while you were at Singapore airlines in Singapore. That interview was with DY and LM?
A: The first portion, yes.
Q: How long did the interview last?
A: Roughly an hour.
Q: Tell me what you recall being discussed at that interview.
A: Like I said earlier, they described to me living or working in Singapore, the differential in pay based on being a cadet and how long the cadet period would be, when the steps in salary would increase, and their concerns had to do with, again, that differential, how I was going to make it up, and then their concerns dealing mostly with my wife's potential for being lonely, depending on how long i was away from Singapore.
Q: Just so I understand, they were concerned that during the cadet period you would not make enough money to make ends meet, based on the salary you would receive as a cadet?
A: That's correct.
Q: And you told them that your savings could make that up?
A: That's correct.
Q: Did you go into detail about the cost of living at that time?
A: In particular, the housing would be the most significant cost, and that's what we talked about, and I was told basically then and in other conversations that for around $1100 a month I could have a clean, comfortable, spacious place to live that wouldn't be too far from work or far from shops.
Q: $1100 Singapore or 1100 US?
A: Everything is-I'll try to keep everything in Singapore dealings with costs in Singapore dollars. It would be 1100 Singapore dollars, at the time of one sixty-five to one or so.
Q: So they told you it would be clean, comfortable, and spacious?
A: Yes.
Q: Did oyu observe while you were there that singapore is pretty crowded as compared to the US?
A: I would never consider singapore crowded per se. Crowding - if you would want to call Singapore crowded in any way, it's by virtue of the way they space their buildings, the tall apartment-style buildings in certain regions. They're just running out of places to build buildings. But at the same time, there are ample parks. It's no more crowded than, say, Seattle.
Q: Wouldn't you say the areas of population in Singapore are more densely populated than any areas of population in Seattle? In another words, where the apartment buildings are, where the neighborhoods are-
A: If you're talking about people per square foot, because of the height of the apartment buildings and the number of people that lived in them, you could say that way, that they're more dense.
Q: Have you ever been to Hong Kong?
A: No.
Q: Have you ever been to China?
A: No. I wasn't allowed to go to China.
Q: Japan?
A: yes.
Q: Tokyo?
A: Tokyo, let's see, I was there briefly with Boeing for training in Tokyo. It was a very small area. Well, let me take that back. I wasn't there with Boeing. I was there with the Air Force.
Q: My questionis, how would you compare the crowding in Singapore in terms of residential areas?
A: Japan is far more crowded, far more dense.
Q: When they talked about the $1100 apartment that they thought you would be able to get, were they referring to - did you discuss whether it would be one of those high-rise apartment buildings?
A: They're all high-rise, essentially. They are a few that are small, but the particular type of dwelling they're talking about is referred to as an HDB apartment building, housing Development Board, which refers, as I know now, to a subsidy that the Singaporeans get for purchasing these apartments.
Q: Did you ask to look at one of those apartments while you were there?
A: Didn't have time between their requirements on me, didn't have time to go looking.
Q: Did you ask?
A: Did I ask them in particular? I asked them if they could give me any information or who to talk to about them.
Q: Let me ask the question again. Did you ask then if you could look at an apartment to see what a typical apartment would look like.
A: No I didn't ask them that. If I might, I didn't think they were in a position to be able to offer it.
Q: What do you mean by that?
A: I didn't know that they lived in one or necessarily knew somebody in one. I presumed that LM, because of his position, did not live in one, therefore didn't have one to be able to offer me. I didn't feel that that was their ability.
Q: Is that why you didn't ask, or didn't it just occur to you not to ask?
A: Occured to me not to ask.
Q: Just didn't occur to you?
A: Well, it didn't occur to me because I didn't feel they were in a position to offer it.
Q: You didn't think it would be a fair request to say I'd like to see the kind of apartment I'll be living in in Singapore?
A: Not to them. I did ask who I might talk to about them?
Q: Did they give you a name?
A: LM gave me a couple of names and phone numbers, and then I contacted them.
Q: Did you contact those people?
A: I did.
Q: Do you recall who they are?
A: One - both are pilots. I don't recall the names.
Q: Do you know if they are Westerners?
A: One was a Westerner.
Q: US? Australian?
A: Either Australian or British. But then again, now that I've learned a few things, could have been south African, as far as accents go.
Q: What did he tell you?
A: That it was true, nothing special, it's clean, would be comfortable, there is plenty of room, and you can easily get one for 11 to 12 hundred dollar range.
Q: Did you ask him to see one?
A: No, there wasn't time. I didn't have transportation. I didn't know anything about the transportation system, et cetera.
Q id you ask him about treatment of Westerners in Singapore?
A: No, I did not. I had no reason to beleive there was a reason to ask such a question.
Q: Did you ask them about the price of food?

[Kenny Naboo]

Wow! This John Doe must be someone very special. He got free tranportation and hotel lodging for a CADET pilot interview in Singapore. He got driven around by the second-in-command of Flight Operations. Not forgetting being "dined" as well.

I am not sure if the other "expat" wannabes were accorded the same but I can tell you the locals from traditional sources have to find their own way and arrange their own accommodation. No freebies! Not even lunch at the staff canteen.

Yet John Doe left and got sued. Why?

[faheel]

Well Kenny, I guess if you wait a bit longer you will find out
But I hazzard a guess that it was something to do with the subsistence wages a cadet gets and probably more importantly lack of any promotion prospects.

[Gladiator]

A: I asked about the hawker centers, eating at the hawker centers and such, and he confirmed it's roughly three to four dollars a meal.
Q: Is that true?
A: It is true, It's gone up somewhat, but still for $5 you can get plenty of food. The problem with that now, though, based on my knowledge now, is that these hawker centers don't have the kind of cleanliness standards we do. They're not enforced equitably. It's typical to see rats running around in the gullways and around the hawker centers. Trash that wasn't enclosed was typically placed right out in front of the eating area and allowed to decay there. it wasn't very pleasant.
Q: Did you have any discussions with them about how much it cost to shop for food?
A: No
Q: Did you have any discussions with them about amenities that would be in an apartment, whether you would have running water that was clean or anything of that nature?
A: I was told it was a modern, clean, comfortable country, had no reason to assume that the standard would be any grossly different than the US.
Q: So going into this, it was your belief that the standards of cleanliness and living conditions were roughly equivalent to those in the US?
A: That's correct.
Q: Did anybody make a specific representation to you that the standards were similar to that of the US?
A: Other than the general statements I've been telling you about. No one specifically said: Our water is cleaner than anybody else's or anything like that, no.
Q: Did anybody ever say to you something to the effect that our sanitary standards in Singapore are about the same as the sanitary standards of the US?
A: They consider thenselves a very clean country and very safe, and those are the way they phrased it. i don't mean to say the same thing over and over again, but-
Q: You made yourself clear on that. My question was a very specific question. Did anyone compare Singapore with the US in term of cleansiness?
A: The perception I left with was that, yes, that was what I was told. Can I say anybody in particular said that, no.
Q: Do you recall whether you asked how Singaporean standards compare with US standards for cleansiness in apartment buildings, et cetera?
A: No.

[Kenny Naboo]

Gladiator, I can't wait for all the instalments. Can you tell me where I can obtain the entire transcript? Is it available for download?

Thanks.

[Gladiator]

E-mail me your address for hard copy.

[Gladiator]

Q: Anything else about Singapore that was discussed in that interview, other than what you've told us that for about$1100 you could get a clean, comfortable, and spacious apartment, nothing fancy, and that there would be concern about your cadet pay being able to make it in Singapore?
A: Singaporeans in general are very proud of their country being a safe place to live and raise children, good standard of living and cleanliness, as I've brought up before. They think it quite impressive that someone can walk the streets of singapore at night and not have to worry about being mugged, but there are places, plenty of which in the US, of course, you could do the same. But that's the type of thing they're proud of and the type of thing they bring up all the time, and such things as those were brought up during the interview.
Q: Did you find that not to be true, that Singaporeans were not - strike that. You said they told you that Singaporeans were proud that Singapore was a safe place and that they were proud of the cleanliness and that you could walk the streets at night in many places. Did you find those statements true or untrue?
A: In different ways, yes.
Q: Tell me.
A: Being a pedestrian in Singapore is a very dangerous thing, very common for a hit-and-run pedestrain-car to occur. In fact, I was hit by a car crossing a driveway where I ended up having to jump on the hood of a car. As a bicycle rider, constantly confronted with being hit by buses, and it was somewhat suspected a sport with the bus drivers.
Q: Anything else?
A: Riding - again, transportation system, riding a motorcycle, always at risk of being sideswiped. The standard seemed to be the larger vehicle wins, and there is no such thing as right-of-way. Cleanliness, I mentioned the rats and decaying trash, nothing much thought of it. Burning piles of paper which is a method of sending good favor to your dead relatives in the front yard of where you live was thought nothing of. Leaving oranges to rot in any location in the city, somewhere on the sidewalk there would be a couple of sticks of incense and an orange.
Q: Those oranges, when you say leaving them out to rot, those were offerings?
A: Thos are religious offerings. The air quality in Singapore would vary depending on how much of the rain forest was being burned in Sumatra. The air in general was somewhat-
Q: I don't mean to interupt you, and please go on if you want. I just want to remind you of the question, and that is, you said that they represented to you that they were proud that it was a safe and clean country, and i'm not sure, does air quality relate to that, in your mind?
A: As I understand it, you're asking how that varied from what they said?
Q: Right.
A: And air quality does enter that, yes. Until close to the end of my residence, we didn't have air-conditioning in the main room, and leaving the windows open after dusting, two days later you don't have dust, you have a greasy, oily grime that goes with it, and, of course, you're breathing that. The water quality I questioned, because I never had quite a normal bowel movement the entire time I was there.
Q: Did you drink tap water in Singapore?
A: Yes. Again, they represented it as being clean.
Q: Who represented the tap water as being clean to you?
A: When someone tells me that their country is very clean, I take it that everything about it standards wise represents a clean and safe - they represent - they don't have - as a matter of fact, I asked doctors about it. They have no qualm over there about the water supply. We started boiling our water not too long after being there.
Q: Have you been to France?
A: NO, actually Britain.
Q: Do you know if people generally drink tap water in France?
A: I wouldn't know. I've not been there. I trained a crew, and they didn't bring it up. Q: How about Italy, have you ever been to Italy?
A: Not been there overnight, no. I've been there three hours for a refueling stop in the air Force.
Q: Do you know if people drink tap water in Italy?
A: I have no idea. I spent some time in britain and in germany, and drinking tap water was no big deal there either.
Q: Okay.
A: And also Amsterdam, that wasn't a problem there either.
Q: That wasn't a problem there?
A: No in Britain, Holland and germany tap water is not a problem.
Q: Canada as well?
A: As far as I know.
Q: You've mentioned problems with what we'll classify as dangerous driving, hit-and-runs, bus drivers, et cetera; air quality problems; the sanitation problems that you described in the open air cafes as well as people with their religious offerings burning papers and sacrificing oranges.
A: Rats.
Q: Pardon?
A: Rats.
Q: Right, rats in the open air cafes.
A: Well, rats in proximity to our residents as well.
Q: Did you have any rats in your apartment?
A: Not in the apartment, no.
Q: And air quality problems and tap water problems?
A: Also problems with sewage in our apartment as well. If you would like me to get more -
Q: Yes, tell me about the sewage problems.
A: Again, one of the standards I didn't know about is the way they build buildings is such that sewage coming from the apartment above goes through their floor, your ceiling, before elbowing out of the building completely. Both those pipes seeped, as well as the apartment above had been renovated and improperly caulked around the bathtub such that the bath water seeped ans stained all the walls. The thing - you may ask why they weren't corrected. In Singapore, when this happens, it's not only the responsibility of the party above who has the seeping pipes, but the party in the apartment below for being there, and they had a - well, let's see, the dispute began roughly eight months before i left and was still ongoing when I left.
Q: As to whose responsibility it was?
A: (Witness nods head.)
Q: Anything else that you believe was not true in the statements made to you by DY and LM -
A: Another surprising standard -
Q: Let me finish the question please.
A: Sorry.
Q: - that Singaporeans were proud that their country was a safe place to live and was clean?
(Defendant's lawyer): I'll object to that question to the extent that it mischaracterizes the entire testimony in terms of what Mr. xxx has said was represented to him. If you just want to focus on that one particular issue -
Q: Did they say anything else to you in that first conversation in regard to - you testified about the $1100 clean, comfortable, and spacious apartment. you also said they told you that Singaporeans were proud, that their country was a very safe place to live and clean. Is there anything else that they told you during that conversation that you maintain was not true about singapore?
A: We would - we talked about that already. All I can think of were things that were not said that later turned out to be true.
Q: But in terms of what was affirmatively said, we've covered that, correct?
A: Unless I can think of something later, yes.
Rest to follow.

[Gladiator]

Q: Anything else about your conditions there, other than what we've talked about already, that was contridictory to what they told you in that conversation?
A: Let me bring up one more thing. It has to do with quality healthcare that they brought up, referring to the benefits package as afr as healthcare.. It's getting back to your previous question that I said i would tell you. The healthcare is a state run system, and as I found out, the doctors do not have the same motivation to care for their patients as they do here because it is a state run system. the common application of an allness is a prescription of antibiotics, which i personally went through five times with the stomach problems, digestion problems, dealing with the bad food or bad water, and then other stories of other Singaporeans we know whose parents were in hospital for one illness only to die of pneumonia later.
Q: That was another singaporean that you knew?
A: yes.
Q: It didn't happen toy ou directly or your wife directly?
A: No.
Q: Anything else, either on what you were told or things that turned out not to be true that you can recall right now?
A: All through this process on why Singapore was attractive to me was the fact that being a 747 instructor, I was allowed to or given the idea that what it may - and the words were it made every sensibility that Singapore airlines train me in the 747-400. It would would be lower cost, lower risk, failure, as far as that goes.
Q: When was this told to you?
A: When I inquired in 87, 88, and also at the interview.
Q: I'm focusing on the interview with LM. They said it would make every sense to train you on the 747?
A: That's correct, if the class was available, if I performed properly as far as the training involved prior to that time, I had every belief I would end up in a 747-400.
Q: Did they ever make a specific commitment to you that you would be trained as a 747 pilot?
A: It -
Q: I think you talked, and I want to make sure the court reporter gets it, so I want to repeat it. Strike that question. let's go again. Did they make any specific commitment to you that you would train in the 747?
(Defendant's attorny): I'll object to that question as vague as to the term "Commitment." You can answer.
A: The words they used are similar to what I experienced in the air Force. promises would be made contingent upon needs of the organization. Again, with that went it would make every sence and -
Q: Did they ever promise you that you would fly a 747?
A: No one said the words: I promise you will fly that aircraft.
Q: Did you understand that Singapore airlines had discretion in terms of which aircraft you would fly?
A: Yes.
Q: I want to go back to anything else in the first conversation that was said to you that later turned out to be false, or I also want to go into anything else that occured to you that demonstrated what you've already told me was false.
A: Not at this time. I mean, again, if something comes up, I'll let you know.
Q: Then you subsequeltly had a second phase of the interview where you had a lot more people present?
A: Yes.
Q: Was anything in that conversation said to you?
A: That interview was basically M DeV interview. Although there were several other people there, loke I said, all the questions came from M DeV, and all the answers were basically to the group and M DeV.
Q: Was there anything that M DeV said to you that -
A: There was a -
Q: - that turned out to be false?
A: No.
Q: You said your stay in Singapore lasted for three days in June or july?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you come back to the US after that?
A: Yes.
Q: What did you do next in regards to the job in Singapore?
A: After some 4 to 6 weeks, possibly 8 weeks, I called LM asking if there was any progress on the process. they were waiting for information from the medical. There was a psychological evaluation that goes with most applications for an airline, and an aptitude test. they were waiting for all that to return.
Q: Did you have any discussion during this period with your wife about going to singapore?
A: Yes.
Q: PLease describe those discussions for me.
A: The discussions pertained to what I experienced while I was there for interview, the things I found out, the best I could, about the living conditions and what we would be able to live in and described to her what I saw in the - with the drive around with LM and his wife, the conversation with the individuals I called, what it would cost to live there, as best as I could tell. I also at the time was a Prodigy member. I looked up information on Singapore. It related that the inflation rate there was some 4 percent, comparing that to where things were when I knew them a few years ago and such, that also seemed to suggest things would be quite affordable. In actuality that's not the case, that 4 percent inflation.
Q: Say that again.
A: In actuality that was not the case, the 4 percent inflation.
Q: What was the inflation?
A: If you wished to live as a Westerner in Singapore, the inflation was more closer to 30 to 50 percent per annum.
Q: This information you got off of Prodigy, of course, Singapore Airlines had nothing to do with providing you that information?
A: Well, bear in mind that singapore airlines is controlled by ownership by the Singapore government. the information put out is put out by the singapore government.
Q: You went on Prodigy to do some independent research about singapore?
A: That's correct. The information is provided by Singapore.
Q: You learned there was 4 percent inflation rate?
A: That's correct.
Q: Off the Prodigy?
A: Yes.
Q: And is it your contention that Singapore Airlines is responsible for providing you that information about the inflation rate that you found out over Prodigy?
A: Is Singapore airlines responsible for the accuracy of that information?
Q: Yes.
A: No.
Q: We got off on a little tangent. I was talking about discussions you had with your wife, and I want to go back to that. We'll come back to prodigy in a minute. Did your wife have any reluctance about moving to singapore?
A: Yes.
Q: Explain her reluctance.

[Gladiator]

A: Her rluctance was dealing with an unknown, She had never lived outside the country, did not know what it wouod be like to be living in a foreign country, did not know what it would be like to work in a foreign country, did not know whether or not she would be able to get a job, similar to when we moved to Arkansas when I was in the Air Force, same concerns, never lived there, never worked there.
Q: Where is she from?
A: Her Family originated in xxx and when she was seven they moved here to xxx.
Q: Had you ever lived outside the US?
A: For a ling-term basis, no. I've been in various locations two, three weeks at a time.
Q: But you never held down a steady job outside of the US?
A: No.
Q: How did you respond to her concerns?
A: I ssured her that it was worth the effort, worth the risk we would be taking because of the long-term benefits, and I had no reason to doubt what what I was being told, no reason to think we would be treated badly.
Q: When you talk about the long-term benefits, are you referring to the fact that you could become a commercial pilot for a major airline?
A: No. I was referring not only the pay but the retirement benefits, as well as the appreciation in property that I was told was very good.
Q: In terms of a career path, your goal was to becaome a commercial airline pilot, was it not?
A: Correct.
Q: And Singapore Airlines offered the best opprtunity for you to become a commercial airline pilot?
A: At that time.
Q: And -
A: If I may, best is relative to whatever else I could have got at the time.
Q: Precisely.
A: Okay.
Q: You would have preferred to stay in the US, all things being equal, but since this was the job that looked to be available to you, this was the best opportunity to pursue your career path?
A: Yes.
Q: What were xxx (defendant's present employer) hourly requirements?
A: I don't know that they actually published or- put in this way: The article that they put out in the New York papers for air crew, they were looking for pilots with jet experience and airbus preferred.
Q: Would you have qualified for the xxx job had you not worked for singapore airlines?
A: No.
Q: You said you went to prodigy to find out about the inflation rate?
A: If I may go back to that and add something, if I had gone with the other option, which was the regional carrier, there is nothing to say that I wouldn't in the same time span be qualified for the position at xxx, because what xxx is doing is hiring regional pilots as flight engineers.
Q: What's the distinction between a flight engineer and a first officer?
A: A flight engineer has the duty of dealing with systems in the aircraft. It's another pilot position, as we talked about in the first few moments today.
Q: So if you worked for a regional carrier, your path would have been a flight engineer path as opposed to working for Singapore, which your path was a first officer path?
A: Again, these are based on what-ifs.
Q: I understand.
A: But if my regional pilot path did not result in my flying a jet, any jet, that probably would have been the case. If I had flown jets, and depending on what jets, I would have been a first officer like I am now.
Q: But it may have required you flying Airbus jets, based on what you said, the requirements for xxx?
A: Jet Airbus preferred. They aren't that many in the US.
Q: Let me just ask about the first engineer for a second. Is the flight engineer -
A: Flight engineer.
Q: Excuse me, flight engineer. Is the flight engineer a path to pilot as well?
A: Yes.
Q: Is it a path to captain?
A: Yes.
Q: Is it easier to become a captain as a first officer or as a flight engineer?
A: To become a captain you must have been a first officer, so therefore you have to go through that step.
Q: So a flight engineer would have to go through a first officer to become a captain?
A: True.
Q: And you're a first officer right now?
A: Yeah.
Q: And as you said, it's pure speculation as to whether or not your experience, if you had worked for a regional carrier, would have been sufficient to get you hired with xxx and then in what position it would have gotten you hired at xxx?
A: True.
(Defendant's attorney): I'll object to that question. It's mischaracterizing his prior testimony as pure speculation.
Q: You can answer. If you want the question back she'd be glad to read it back.
A: Please.
(The record was read.)
A: Where one progresses from a regional carrier is very varried. Whether or not it would have been xx at all in another thing. I could have ended up with another major carrier, with a far better salary, for that matter, than i'm getting right now.
Q: But the point is, it's all speculation, because you don't know what would have happened if you didn't work at Singapore airlines, correct?
A: It would be prediction. In other words, it's not speculation. It's a guess. it's based on experience of other individuals who have all gone through careers in the airlines.
Q: But it'sd speculation as to what position you would have gotten from a regional carrier if you would have applied, because it, would depend on what openings were there for the regional carrier, et cetera?
A: True.
Q: Other than going on the internet and on Prodigy and finding out the Singaporean inflationrate, what other research did you do independently regarding Singapore?
A: There is a book called the CIA guidbook to countries, or something like that. I looked at that.
Q: CIA as in Central Intelligence agency?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you have a copy of that still?
A: No. It's available through the general Printing Office in Pueblo, Colorado, is where I bought it.
Q: Did they have information on Singapore?
A: It's basically as the nation, basic setup, economy, religions. It's a basic guide as to what Singapore is.
Q: Did they discuss, for instanceliving standards?
A: Don't recall.
Q: Did they discuss housing costs?
A: They had a per capita income, I beleive, and that's about it.
Q: Did they talk about whether it was a democracy or not?
A: Yes they did.
Q: What did they say?
A: They list it as a democracy, parliamentary government.
Q: Did they talk about human rights in singapore?
A: No.
Q: Freedom of the press in Singapore?
A: Don't recall.
Q: Anything beyond the CIA guidbook for countries and looking up the inflation rate on the internet that you did to inquire about singapore from the time you applied to the time you were accepted?
Rest to follow

[Gladiator]

A: Other than general inquiries of my work colleagues to see if anybody knew anything, and I didn't get much on that.
Q: Did any of your work colleagues tell you anything?
A: There wasn't much to be told, other than they've been told that people that went there did very well.
Q: Any other research that you did on singapore that we havn't discussed already, prior to the time you moved there?
A: I researched their order status, the type of aircraft they had on order and how many.
Q: Anything else?
A: With reference to the airline itself, no. With reference to the agreement that I got a copy of in Oct, yes.
Q: What about in regard to the country?
A: No other, no. Clarify, nothing anyhow that I can recall that countered any of what they'd been telling me.
Q: Anything that you can recall that you researched about the country other than inquiring to colleagues at Boeing, getting the CIA guidbook, and going on Prodigy to look for the inflation rate?
A: Not that I recall.
Q: Showing you what's been marked as exhibit 2, can you identify this document for us, please.
A: This is what could be referred to as part of the offer letter, and conditions of employment, benefits dealing with hiring as a cadet pilot and pilot in general with singapore airlines.
Q: When you say "part of the offer letter," that implies it's not the whole thing. Was there another part of the offer letter that's not here?
A: I'm sorry, the cover letter is on the top. yes. The offer letter itself is on the top and the conditions of service are below, and then along with this was the bonding agreement that came along with it.
Q: The bonding agreement came with this?
A: With this, yes.
Q: This is your signature on the second page?
A: That's correct.
Q: Accepting the offer of employment?
A: Yes, as specified with the two paragraphs or two sentences above it, yes.
Q: Okay. After you received this offer did you contact CS?
A: Yes.
What did you discuss with Ms. S, do you recall?
A: I needed - if I recall correctly, I needed to know how fast they needed this back, because I was talking with Mr.L and LM about the bonding agreement in particular. I had a lot of trouble with that.
Q: Did you review the general conditions of service?
A: yes.
Q: When you got this letter?
A: Just take a tangent for a second, I earlier told you if I recall anything that was said at the interview that turned out to not be true to let you know, and at the time of the interview with DY and LM it was mentioned that the bonding agreement that would be required for me to sign, and only what was said was me to sign, was in the amount of 100,000 singapore dollars. That turned out to be, as we know, not correct.
Q: When you got the bonding agreement, you knew that wasn't correct?
A: That's correct.
Q: I take it you reviewd this letter before you signed it?
A: Yes.
Q: And you reviewed the general conditions of service before you signed it?
A: Yes.
Q: Before you signed the letter?
A: Also reviewed it with a Boeing lawyer.
Q: Who was the Boeing lawyer you reviewed it with?
A: Don't recall his name. My particular worries were the terminology and the conditions of the bonding agreement and whether or not such a thing could be enforced.
Q: What did the lawyer tell you regarding whether it could be enforced or not?
A: It could not be enforced, but it would be a matter to prove.
Q: Why did he say it could not be enforced?
A: Because of the one-sided nature of the agreement, the high amount for liquidated damages, and the overall slavery aspect of the agreement.
Q: The slavery aspect?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you ask the Boeing lawyer what he meant by the slavery aspect? Strike that. Did he use the term "slavery aspect"?
A: I don't recall if he used the term "slavery." Well when he summerized what he was talking about as indentured service, which is what he used as a term, it was basically enslaving you, is what he summerized it as later.
Q: So he told you that there would be some risk involved as to whether it would be enforceable or not?
A: With any contract you sign there is some risk involved.
Q: That's what he told you?
A: Yes.
Q: You read the agreement, you reviewed the agreement with an attorney, and you also contacted Ms.S. Describe your conversation with Ms.S.
A: Basically, she didn't even knoe whether or not I accepted it, and also, as it says here, they have to get the identity card numbers and occupations of two guarantors. the two guarantors and the amount of the bond were two issues that were a complete surprise, and at this point of it all, it was rather disturbing. I received this letter in Oct, but I was notified of acceptance for employment in Aug - Sep. Based on that acceptance and what I had known to that point, we put up for sale our house and my airplane, a twin-engine Piper Aztec, and sold them in Sep. By the time this letter had arrived, and that was - and the timing was based on proximity to a class date. we had already moved into temporary apartment with those items sold, and now I'm faced with having done that and this agreement.
Q: What did you sell your house for?
A: The house sold for, if I remember right. 175,500.
Q: Was that below market value, in your opinion?
A: Well, according to the bank, that was 1500 above market value.
Q: What did you sell your airplane for?
A: 62,500.
Q: Was that below market value, in your opinion?
A: If I recall, roughly 3,000 below market. What's more important is what they're - well, never mind.
Q: Go ahead.
A: Is what they're worth today.
Q: What do you maintain the house would be worth today?
A: Based on what - we did some shopping in the area last year or earlier this year, roughly 200 to 220,000 to build that house brand new again.
Q: What about to buy an equivalent house?
A: It might - it's speculation, 190 to 200 and something thousand.
Q: What's the airplane worth today?
A: Based on ads I've reviewed in what's called trade-A-Plane - that's a hyphanated title of a periodical - anywhere from 82 to $90,000 for the same type of aircraft.
Q: Did you ever look at any of the planes that were at 82 or 90,000?
A: No.
Rest to follow.

[Gladiator]

Q: When you got this letter and you were disturbed by it, you were disturbed by the bonding terms, what did you do?
A: I called LM and asked him about the bond?
Q: What did LM say?
A: He understood that I was upset. He didn't have, I don't think - no, he didn't have an explanation for the difference in amouts, that he would make inquiry to the company lawyers and to M DeV as to either reducing it oe eliminating it, and he would let me know.
Q: Did he get back to you?
A: Also, he said it's nothing abnormal, it's something everybody signs, and it's nothing we've ever pursued.
Q: LM told you it's nothing that Singapore airlines has ever pursued?
A: That's correct.
Q: After this conversation with LM, what did you do next in regard to the bond?
A: Waited for his response.
Q: Did he respond?
A: Yes. His response was I'm not going to be able to get it reduced, reassurance, again, that it's nothing that they pursued. He related to me a story about a Arkansan, Eastern pilot, I beleive - Eastern as he was from Arkansas. He said they settled out of court for $40,000 based on his living in Arkansas and at the time Clinton running for President.
Q: He said that somebody did leave, moved to Arkansas, and they settled out of court for $$0,000 on the bonding agreement?
A: Yes. I presume he meant 40,000 Singapore dollars.
Q: Did he specify whether they were singapore or US?
A: No, but based on experience, they don't make that differentiation. It's presumed Singapore.
Q: So it's your understanding they actually did pursue it against this person in Arkansas, they just took a cheap out-of-court settlement?
A: I don't know even if the individual had to consult a lawyer.
Q: But it was your understanding that individual paid some money to singapore airlines?
A: As the story was related to me, yes.
Q: Anything else that he told you when he responded to you?
A: He assured me that it's something that they don't do unless someone just ups and leaves that it's something that's negotiable, based on the occurrences or the event, that they had done that in the past and it was only for individuals like this one which he says just up and left without notice.
Q: Without any notice? Did he say he up and left without any notice, do you recall that?
A: Right, without notice, or the words such that it meant to me that the person never told the airline there was aproblem of any kind and just one day disappeared. In another words, I had to get something out of him to satisfy my signing this thing and getting two relatives to sign this thing such that I wouldn't have to worry about it, because I had every intention of going through. But the problem with the wording of it is it's worded that for any reason whatsoever the airline can terminate my employment and demand payment of the bond. That bothered me greatly.
Q: Did you also see that the -
A: He assured me that's not what they do.
Q: Did you also see in the agreement that Singapore law applied?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you inquire at all about Singapore law said on these issues?
A: At that time, no.

[Gladiator]

Q: When you talked to the Boeing lawyer, did you point out the Singapore law provision to him or did he point it out for you?
A: Whatever was said I don't recall.
Q: After this conversation with LM. what did you do next in regard to the bonding agreement?
A: Based on his assurances, I then sought two relatives to sign it with me.
Q: You signed this acceptance letter on OCt 20, 93, correct?
A: Yes.
Q: Your bonding agreement was signed after that?
A: In Singapore.
Q: Prior to the time you signed this letter on Oct 20, 93, had you already had your discussions with LM?
A: Some yes, some No. I don't exactly remember the timing other than this had to get back to them faster than the bonding agreement. The bonding agreement wasn't necessary until I was in Singapore.
Q: Did you have your conversation where LM responded to you before or after you signed this acceptance letter?
A: He responded to me before I signed this, as far as the - yeah, there were two conversations at least, and both of them occured before I signed this and mailed it.
Q: NOw, your letter shows that you had ongoing negotiations with Mr.L over bonding terms.
A: Basically -
Q: Who is Mr.L?
A: If I remeber, Mr.L is responsible for the administration of the bond and, to some degree, cadet training.
Q: What did you discuss with mr.L?
A: Basically that LM was looking into the matter for me.
Q: Did you have any negotiations with Mr.L about the bonding terms?
A: I don't recall what they were in particular.
Q: I wnat to talk about your second sentence here, the sentence directly above your signature line where you say, quote: My acceptance is also contingent on the result of ongoing negotiations with Mr.L over bonding terms; do you see that?
A" Uh-huh.
Q: Was there ongoing negotiation with Mr.L over bonding terms as of the date you signed this letter?
A: If I recall right, there were in conjunction with efforts of LM on my behalf, both - Mr.L is directly responsible for it, and LM is not, so I referred to mr.L, because that's the person directly responsible for the bond.
Q: But in terms of direct negotiations, you did not have any direct negotiations with mr.L over bonding terms, did you?
A: Per se, no.
Q: Did you ever discuss with Mr.L anything about bonding terms other than you're talking to LM about it?
A: I discussed with mr.L the particulars of the bonding agreement and some questions about them, and then if I remember right, the remarks were that I'm waiting for LM's response.
Q: Did you ever talk to Mr.L about whether Singapore airlines ever actually enforces the bonding terms?
A: I may have.
Q: Do you recall what he said?
A: No. He was not who I was looking for the assurances from.
Q: So you don't recall his response to your question about bonding terms; is that correct?
A: Correct, I'sorry, about bonding -
Q: About enforcement of yhe bonds, correct?
A: Correct.
Q: You eventually obtained two guarantors; is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: For the bond? And those guarantors are xx and xx?
A: Yes.
Q: Who is xx?
A: (Relative).
Q: Where does live?
A: Right now I beleive he's in xx.
Q: Does he have an address?
A: I don't know it.
Q: Is he employed?
A: Self employed.
Q: What does he do for a living?
A: Contractor, as in home building.
Q: Where does he live in xx?
A: In xx.
Q: And who is xx?
A: (Relative).
Q: Where does she live?
A: xx.
Q: Is she married?
A: Yes.
Q: Is that her name still, xx?
A: That's correct.
Q: What's her street address?
A: xx.
Q: In xx?
A: Yes xx.
Q: Is she employed?
A: Yes, she's employed.
Q: Do you know what she does?
A: No.
Q: How about her husband, do you know what he does?
A: He's a veteran on disability.
Q: So you reviewed these conditions, and you also reviewed these conditions with the Boeing attorney, correct?
A: Yes.
Q: When I say "these conditions," I'm talking about the letter and the General Conditions of Service.
A: THis document in particular in front of me, no. The document I was concerned with with the lawyer from boeing was -
Q: The bonding agreement?
A: - the bonding agreement itself.
Rest to follow.

[Gladiator]

Gone for BC, be back in 3 days.