Thai/Indo AirAsia & Lion Air
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Pay is USD7000 plus sector allowances, but no roster.
PM me my friend, I haven't heard from you for a while and I may have a nice one lined up for your rating. If you wanna stay local, have you called Wings Air?
Chrome, how and where to apply?
Indo Air Asia are hiring by the way, but as locals, dunno if they're looking for expats, or expats willing to work as locals. 3K USD current, the guys there are saying it may go up to 4 - 5K soon as the company don't want guys to move to Lion.
I sent a CV to Lion and Batavia a while back but never got any reply. I've heard many local guys are bailing to go to Lion while they're getting -900ERs but I don't know if they pay any better than anyone else.
Batavia is loosing pilots due to their low pay, keep tabs on them, they might open up to whoever soon! But don't expect high pay.
They dont understand employing Foreigners and dont check before wasting your time Lah, I know 1 guy who thankfully didnt get burnt Via Adam Air
Locals just got a payrise from $1,600 to $3,000 for left seat MD, they also have to sign non diminishing 5 year bond for the 737.
The pilot pool is drying up here that Indo Air Asia is now hiring old guard ex Twotters left seaters into the 733 right seat, pairing them with left seaters with <10K jet time (at least they didn't pick the totally bad bunch for the left seaters), and the left seaters are having a very very tense time most of the time. In their own words, "these guys are scary!" Not all, but a lot of them are.
however they refused to go.
E-L-S,
In addition, Eagle Air is starting up, and Transwisata is revamping its ops. There is talk here that they might get expats due to the current sucking of the pool by Lion. But don't expect more than 5 years with these guys, by then, they'd have locals to take whichever seat you take.
I wouldn't put up much hope for Lion at the moment, this company prefers to spend money on headhunting pilots and promising high pay... they do give their transfer fees, but, they're not spending money into sorting out their rosters. OTP? What's that? Doesn't exist in Lion's universe... neither does the fact that wives need to know when their pilot hubbies are gonna be flying or be at home. Wives of senior left seaters actually prefer the no rosters, so their husbands can't plan their infidelity! They actually demanded Lion to do so!
1400hrs per year
These airlines still comply with 1x 24hrs off duty at home base for maximum 6 days consecutive duty days. You can choose to fly, but that's only after 4 legs and only if the end of the 4 legs is Jakarta *LOL*
Be careful on which company you choose here. 1 screw up by someone else in the company can be construed as you (flight crew) endangering passenger's lives... a hard landing as grounds for attempted manslaughter isn't too far fetched nowadays. As an expat, you're the easiest scapegoat!
Some companies are worth their words in gold! But those who are not, best not to even touch them with a bargepole.
Yours realistically,
-KAR
Yep its sad...... but it has nothing to do with pilot salaries, if you want professionals, pay them as such, or at least treat them as such.
Is it any wonder that Indonesian Airlines are banned in Europe! (OK I know that they dont fly to Europe, but the ban affects European passengers and their insurance rights.)
Mutt
Is it any wonder that Indonesian Airlines are banned in Europe! (OK I know that they dont fly to Europe, but the ban affects European passengers and their insurance rights.)
Mutt
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I beg to differ. The local economy has a lot to do with pilot salaries. While I agree that pilots should ALL be paid like professionals and should be well compensated for what they do, you're not qualified to sit in the US or Europe, or wherever and comment on the pay locals get in another country. They don't hire expats. We've established that here. So, why then, would a company pay more than the bare minimum they need to fill the seat? They still need to pay within the local economy. You can't have some MD-80 captain making more than the CEO of a company. Most locals workers work 6 days a week, 12 hours a day. Many make about 500,000 rupiah a month. It's the way it is.
Besides, the post said "some guy", not "everyone". Go through this website and see how many shiny jet syndrome youngsters are willing to work for free. It's just the sad state of this industry. Hopefully, these carriers will need to raise their pay rates to recruit and retain crews in the future and the kids will realize that they deserve to be paid like professionals instead of drooling over a "widebody".
Cheers.
Besides, the post said "some guy", not "everyone". Go through this website and see how many shiny jet syndrome youngsters are willing to work for free. It's just the sad state of this industry. Hopefully, these carriers will need to raise their pay rates to recruit and retain crews in the future and the kids will realize that they deserve to be paid like professionals instead of drooling over a "widebody".
Cheers.
you're not qualified to sit in the US or Europe, or wherever and comment on the pay locals get in another country
Mutt
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Mutt,
The pay of 1K USD ain't fixed throughout the bond period, not much detail is known. We just know what numbers were thrown out by those spewing the details.
---
They don't hire expats, but sooner or later, it's gonna be cheaper to hire expats!
Lion may have had that silly 1K per month for someone with no license and a huge bond to pay for his education, but on the other hand, they're paying 50 - 75K for rated captains and 4 - 6K USD monthly total after tax under negotiation... but no roster.
I find the no roster as slavery, while the 1K a month on the rightseat for say the 1st 5 yrs isn't, and the bond is slavery again.
---
Mutt,
They are all fighting for improved pay packages. BUT, there is a limit to how much they get paid in comparison with the others. There are "acceptable ratios" in this industry based on the salary of the captains.
If these captains have a huge salaries, we would get captains running the company because they're paid higher. Ground staff would start shoving fingers at the faces of captains etc. If you look at F/A behaviour in this country, the behaviour between different airlines can be explained by these ratios.
On the other hand, you gotta keep tabs on what's the regional rates too, if you fall behind, people will move. It's a tricky balance to get!
If everyone gets paid equal, there'll be lots of airlines without pilots, because they can save a lot more at some countries.
The problem at the moment here is not the salary. Airlines can double it tomorrow and still survive. The sad thing is that ONE carrier prefers to throw out ridiculous transfer fees and tie these guys down with penal bonds!
It's cheaper for me to hire a foreigner for 3 years than to hire a local and pay those silly transfer fees!
At least we still got guys flying to Europe with other airlines, and do so safely!
PK-KAR
The pay of 1K USD ain't fixed throughout the bond period, not much detail is known. We just know what numbers were thrown out by those spewing the details.
---
They don't hire expats, but sooner or later, it's gonna be cheaper to hire expats!
Lion may have had that silly 1K per month for someone with no license and a huge bond to pay for his education, but on the other hand, they're paying 50 - 75K for rated captains and 4 - 6K USD monthly total after tax under negotiation... but no roster.
I find the no roster as slavery, while the 1K a month on the rightseat for say the 1st 5 yrs isn't, and the bond is slavery again.
---
Mutt,
They are all fighting for improved pay packages. BUT, there is a limit to how much they get paid in comparison with the others. There are "acceptable ratios" in this industry based on the salary of the captains.
If these captains have a huge salaries, we would get captains running the company because they're paid higher. Ground staff would start shoving fingers at the faces of captains etc. If you look at F/A behaviour in this country, the behaviour between different airlines can be explained by these ratios.
On the other hand, you gotta keep tabs on what's the regional rates too, if you fall behind, people will move. It's a tricky balance to get!
If everyone gets paid equal, there'll be lots of airlines without pilots, because they can save a lot more at some countries.
The problem at the moment here is not the salary. Airlines can double it tomorrow and still survive. The sad thing is that ONE carrier prefers to throw out ridiculous transfer fees and tie these guys down with penal bonds!
It's cheaper for me to hire a foreigner for 3 years than to hire a local and pay those silly transfer fees!
Is it any wonder that Indonesian Airlines are banned in Europe!
PK-KAR
If these captains have a huge salaries, we would get captains running the company because they're paid higher. Ground staff would start shoving fingers at the faces of captains etc. If you look at F/A behaviour in this country, the behaviour between different airlines can be explained by these ratios.
I have seen the way that Lion treat their pilots, the lack of a roster is a disaster and not justifiable, how can they have a life?
We have quite a number of Indonesian pilots flying with us. Most came here not only to earn real money, but to gain the respect that their position deserves.
Indonesian aviation needs to wake up!
Selamat malam
Mutt
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I have seen the way that Lion treat their pilots, the lack of a roster is a disaster and not justifiable, how can they have a life?
What's more important?
1. Roster so you can have a life?
2. Better pay?
BOTH isn't the answer I'm looking for... everyone wants both, just wondering which one is more important at the moment.
From what i understand, they just got about an 80% payrise (MD Captains), so now i reckon they deserve a roster, I cant see how this can be an impossible request for a scheduled airline.
Chrome... they get told today what they are doing tomorrow, but it roundtrip or 4 day pairing. 6 days on, 1 off.
Mutt
Chrome... they get told today what they are doing tomorrow, but it roundtrip or 4 day pairing. 6 days on, 1 off.
Mutt
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Mutt,
Indeed, but the rise in Feb is a measly one... it's only a 30%-ish rise... to about 2.2K but that's for all crew, not just for the MD guys. April's another raise but I haven't heard about the actual numbers.... they're talking about another 30%...
The "roster" doesn't require a lot of investment, even with a dismal fleet reliability, if the bi-weekly roster only lasts for 48hrs, they should realize they're not doing enough on the maintenance and planning!
I wonder when will Lion realize that a roster would bring defuse a lot of the salary demands... then a pay rise of whatever amount will be welcomed instead of being dismissed as "just a sweetener."
Chrome,
Yes, the world of no roster means... you can go on 6 days standby, or be told tomorrow U're gonna fly for 1-4 days and U won't know if at the end of the 1-4 days U're gonna get a day off or another standby.
Indeed, but the rise in Feb is a measly one... it's only a 30%-ish rise... to about 2.2K but that's for all crew, not just for the MD guys. April's another raise but I haven't heard about the actual numbers.... they're talking about another 30%...
The "roster" doesn't require a lot of investment, even with a dismal fleet reliability, if the bi-weekly roster only lasts for 48hrs, they should realize they're not doing enough on the maintenance and planning!
I wonder when will Lion realize that a roster would bring defuse a lot of the salary demands... then a pay rise of whatever amount will be welcomed instead of being dismissed as "just a sweetener."
Chrome,
Yes, the world of no roster means... you can go on 6 days standby, or be told tomorrow U're gonna fly for 1-4 days and U won't know if at the end of the 1-4 days U're gonna get a day off or another standby.
Last edited by PK-KAR; 29th Jan 2008 at 10:53.