SQ aircraft,AoA upon VR.
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SQ aircraft,AoA upon VR.
Hi guys!!
I was just wondering,during takeoff,I've realised that SIA planes don't usually employ a high AoA upon rotation compared to other airlines.I supposed this has something to do with the weight of the aircraft and its cargo/pax.Really appreciate it if you guys can provide more insights into this.Thanx!!
I was just wondering,during takeoff,I've realised that SIA planes don't usually employ a high AoA upon rotation compared to other airlines.I supposed this has something to do with the weight of the aircraft and its cargo/pax.Really appreciate it if you guys can provide more insights into this.Thanx!!
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Most jet aircrafts rotate initially to about 15 degrees. Correct term for it is pitch attitude not AoA. AoA is a totally different thing.
No! SQ pilots are not taught to rotate anything less
....
No! SQ pilots are not taught to rotate anything less
....
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Unfortunately for the unsuspecting travelling public, SQ pilots are taught very little. The vast majority of the 'instructors' have no qualifications whatsoever to be described as such; 'training' consists of the hapless trainees trying to pick it up themselves as best as they can and then the 'instructor' checks them. I'ts purely a box - ticking exercise. This company must be keeping its fingers firmly crossed that no more serious incidents occur.
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SQawk77,
What's your allegations based upon? On the contrary,I've heard time and time again that SQ pilots do received some of the best training that could be provided.
What's your allegations based upon? On the contrary,I've heard time and time again that SQ pilots do received some of the best training that could be provided.
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Goodness!!! Another Disgruntled EX-Employee.
Hey SQawk77, maybe you just couldn't be taught!
I'm glad you're out of SQ though you were probably the problem....get it checked out, in medical terms it's called STUPIDITY
Have a nice day.....Not getting the 4 mths??!!
Hey SQawk77, maybe you just couldn't be taught!
I'm glad you're out of SQ though you were probably the problem....get it checked out, in medical terms it's called STUPIDITY
Have a nice day.....Not getting the 4 mths??!!
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For the benefit of you smartarses, I'm not YET an ex - employee and I should be getting the 4 months, not that its any of your business.
The subject was training, or the lack thereof. If you've experienced any of SQ's training and think it's any good, that speaks volumes about your standards or experience - or both.
The subject was training, or the lack thereof. If you've experienced any of SQ's training and think it's any good, that speaks volumes about your standards or experience - or both.
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Sq.77. I still don't know what it says about your qualifications other than that you are like one of these little puppies that like to **** in their own nest. Stop barking Sit!! and enjoy your bonus. A lot of my friends lost most of their pension!!
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You chaps do seem to want to get away from the original subject which was the quality of SQ training.
Over the past two years it has been an arsehole of a company to work for contract - wise but that has nothing to do with its operational standards - which I still maintain are questionable to say the least.
Don't just take my word for it - there has recently been a small intake of ex- SAS crew; a well-respected European carrier. Ask them what they think of SQ training! The replies will not be complimentary...
As it happens, I, too, am from another well respected European carrier and with 38 years in the industry, I feel qualified enough to express an opinion about standards. Does anyone have a problem with that?
Over the past two years it has been an arsehole of a company to work for contract - wise but that has nothing to do with its operational standards - which I still maintain are questionable to say the least.
Don't just take my word for it - there has recently been a small intake of ex- SAS crew; a well-respected European carrier. Ask them what they think of SQ training! The replies will not be complimentary...
As it happens, I, too, am from another well respected European carrier and with 38 years in the industry, I feel qualified enough to express an opinion about standards. Does anyone have a problem with that?
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SQawk77
The original subject was SIA hi AofA after take off. You hijacked the subject onto SQ training or lack of it.
Let me make a few assumptions here and if I am wrong, put me right and I will apologise.
Your 30 plus years in the industry were mostly in BA where you built up a satis reputation and became reatively 'bullet proof'
When you left BA you left that reputation and security as well. Within the last 6 mths or so you have done a base check with a well known bully who smiles a lot and shakes hands. No matter how well the overall check went somewhere along the line he found an excuse to fail or nearly fail you. IE you went an extra half a degree off the hdg limit during a perfectly safe go around. Unlike his totally bullet proof mates he has grown up with in SIA, you are an expat nicely in his sights so he mindlessly writes you up as a fail. You now climb onto Pprune and slash away at all the instuctors tarnishing the lot with the same brush. You also seem to think that a bit of cockpit chatter with a hand full of SAS copilots is some sort of barometer to gauge SIA's training standards. They are not experts. They are just agreeing with your ranting to be "on sides" with their Capt. Its called CRM.
Now SQ77, it would be far better to handle this whole sordid affair another way (if I am right about all this of course).
1 You decide never to SIM ride or line check with this dude again and let all your pals who he is and what he did to you.
2 You kick up a fuss in the CP's office, the Dep CP's office and the head of TRG's office, letting them know the stupidity of this individual. You DO NOT blame the whole trg section if you wish to be listened to and taken seriously!
3 You encourage anyone who knows this dude to decide not to be SIM tested or line checked by him in future so that the **** follows him not you. He is bound to have a reputation already and it is not only expats that he will have taken advantage of. There are bound to be some helpless copilots who have been mercilessly hammered by him too.
4 You stop this blathing away at the rest of SIA's trg section who are doing a good job for the most part.
The "box ticking exercise" you describe is mindlessly adhered to by a couple of morons admittedly, but the vast majority of instructors know when to fail someone with the good use of CRM and with genuine safety in mind. As ex BA you wernt here in the 90s when there were a huge bunch of out of control bullies destoying peoples confidence and erroding safety as a result so you need perspective and you should hold the outlandish complaints.
We all know how infuriating it is when we get an instructor who cant think outside the number ticking box especially when you have tried your darndest to please the prick. A fail like this is unfair and it does nothing to enhance safety so lets proceed from that standpoint shall we. Meantime get a grip of the temper and get passed it
Let me make a few assumptions here and if I am wrong, put me right and I will apologise.
Your 30 plus years in the industry were mostly in BA where you built up a satis reputation and became reatively 'bullet proof'
When you left BA you left that reputation and security as well. Within the last 6 mths or so you have done a base check with a well known bully who smiles a lot and shakes hands. No matter how well the overall check went somewhere along the line he found an excuse to fail or nearly fail you. IE you went an extra half a degree off the hdg limit during a perfectly safe go around. Unlike his totally bullet proof mates he has grown up with in SIA, you are an expat nicely in his sights so he mindlessly writes you up as a fail. You now climb onto Pprune and slash away at all the instuctors tarnishing the lot with the same brush. You also seem to think that a bit of cockpit chatter with a hand full of SAS copilots is some sort of barometer to gauge SIA's training standards. They are not experts. They are just agreeing with your ranting to be "on sides" with their Capt. Its called CRM.
Now SQ77, it would be far better to handle this whole sordid affair another way (if I am right about all this of course).
1 You decide never to SIM ride or line check with this dude again and let all your pals who he is and what he did to you.
2 You kick up a fuss in the CP's office, the Dep CP's office and the head of TRG's office, letting them know the stupidity of this individual. You DO NOT blame the whole trg section if you wish to be listened to and taken seriously!
3 You encourage anyone who knows this dude to decide not to be SIM tested or line checked by him in future so that the **** follows him not you. He is bound to have a reputation already and it is not only expats that he will have taken advantage of. There are bound to be some helpless copilots who have been mercilessly hammered by him too.
4 You stop this blathing away at the rest of SIA's trg section who are doing a good job for the most part.
The "box ticking exercise" you describe is mindlessly adhered to by a couple of morons admittedly, but the vast majority of instructors know when to fail someone with the good use of CRM and with genuine safety in mind. As ex BA you wernt here in the 90s when there were a huge bunch of out of control bullies destoying peoples confidence and erroding safety as a result so you need perspective and you should hold the outlandish complaints.
We all know how infuriating it is when we get an instructor who cant think outside the number ticking box especially when you have tried your darndest to please the prick. A fail like this is unfair and it does nothing to enhance safety so lets proceed from that standpoint shall we. Meantime get a grip of the temper and get passed it
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Chambudzi, you hit it right on the head with your very well written reply to our puppy with his nest dirtying tricks. If this person has these serious complaints about the quality (or lack of it) of the training there are only a few things he can do. One of them is leaving, but the best thing is to confront the instructor concerned, and if needed take it all the way up to the training department. Rambling on this forum has no effect what so ever. In every companies training departement ( and believe me even in BA!) you have a few fantastic instructors , the majority is standard , and a few are a total waste to the profession. If you are in the unfortunate position that you have to do a check with the last group, you can either fight it to the end, or just think “another day another ride!” It seems that SQ77 hasn’t learned a lot in his long career. I said before “ 77 stop barking, sit, and enjoy your bonus!!!
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Thank you John Barnes and I of course agree with your comments.
Sqwawk77 has gone very quiet so perhaps my guessing was correct after all. It is not an infrequent senario and when a version of it happened to me about 9 years ago I was angry too but only let it worry me for the rest of that day. We all know every airline has a couple of these fellows and like most bullies they are cowards at heart. If you take them on they just about always back off.
Sqwawk77 has gone very quiet so perhaps my guessing was correct after all. It is not an infrequent senario and when a version of it happened to me about 9 years ago I was angry too but only let it worry me for the rest of that day. We all know every airline has a couple of these fellows and like most bullies they are cowards at heart. If you take them on they just about always back off.
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What standards
LEt all employees here speak with caution.
Do not want them to 'modify' the Base-check again.
U all know what happens when you get
three '5's in the score.
Do not want them to 'modify' the Base-check again.
U all know what happens when you get
three '5's in the score.
Wow, all SQawk77 was make an observation about the SQ training, which is not that far off the mark, and we have Barnsey, and Chambudzi rattling away like two old hags at a vege market. Talk about hitting a nerve.
Last edited by CDRW; 22nd May 2005 at 08:55.
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Yep 422 I would also like to know, what happens with 3 fives.
I cant believe that any coy would modify its base check due to the 'blatherings' on a thread like this and I doubt that anyone in authority could possibly worry about the cr*p written here about safety standards in SIA. Anyway I for one would like to know about the 3 X 5s.
CDRW, so Im that bad, "in a vege market "nog al. That is bad.
Actually Squawk77 didnt just "make an observation about SQ training". He went a bit further with his blanket complaints and with the smallest of inside info I hit the mark and silence has followed. The nerve that was hit was his alone. You tell us his remarks were not far off the mark. Okay so lets have it CDRW, give us your opinion on SQ's trng and safety standards.
I cant believe that any coy would modify its base check due to the 'blatherings' on a thread like this and I doubt that anyone in authority could possibly worry about the cr*p written here about safety standards in SIA. Anyway I for one would like to know about the 3 X 5s.
CDRW, so Im that bad, "in a vege market "nog al. That is bad.
Actually Squawk77 didnt just "make an observation about SQ training". He went a bit further with his blanket complaints and with the smallest of inside info I hit the mark and silence has followed. The nerve that was hit was his alone. You tell us his remarks were not far off the mark. Okay so lets have it CDRW, give us your opinion on SQ's trng and safety standards.
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Apologies for temporary absence but I'd just like to add another two penn'orth before this topic goes stale.
I must admit to being surprised by the venom of some of the replies to my contribution; it's unfortunate that with all the heat generated there wasn't an equivalent amount of light.
It is a little mystifying why some seem to take things so personally, as if a personal insult has been thrown. The criticism offered is directed more at the company and its system rather than individuals.
Operational standards and training are about far more than just passing a ritualised and not very imaginitive Base Check - do we agree on that?
SQ likes to be regarded as a major world carrier and in terms of revenue, fleet size and destinations served, it is. It is surely incumbent though on such a carrier to embrace up to date philosophies in its operating policies and training department, not just hang on to ideas that seemed ok 20 years ago.
I've probably led a sheltered existence compared with many of the multi - company types but having known a demonstrably better system is it not natural to want to move towards that rather than accept something inferior?
Is everything in the SQ garden lovely? It is worrying to find some who will aggressively support the status quo and resist change rather than keeping an open mind and welcoming proven up to date ideas.
I must admit to being surprised by the venom of some of the replies to my contribution; it's unfortunate that with all the heat generated there wasn't an equivalent amount of light.
It is a little mystifying why some seem to take things so personally, as if a personal insult has been thrown. The criticism offered is directed more at the company and its system rather than individuals.
Operational standards and training are about far more than just passing a ritualised and not very imaginitive Base Check - do we agree on that?
SQ likes to be regarded as a major world carrier and in terms of revenue, fleet size and destinations served, it is. It is surely incumbent though on such a carrier to embrace up to date philosophies in its operating policies and training department, not just hang on to ideas that seemed ok 20 years ago.
I've probably led a sheltered existence compared with many of the multi - company types but having known a demonstrably better system is it not natural to want to move towards that rather than accept something inferior?
Is everything in the SQ garden lovely? It is worrying to find some who will aggressively support the status quo and resist change rather than keeping an open mind and welcoming proven up to date ideas.
