CAA seeking pilot's views on ATSOCAS
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CAA seeking pilot's views on ATSOCAS
Use this link to their web site
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...etail&nid=1076
Post your comments here too maybe?
Sir George Cayley
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...etail&nid=1076
Post your comments here too maybe?
Sir George Cayley
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This is really relevant to PPL VMC I think, not pros... still:
Mildly disturbing... as far as I recall (been a while!) you had to understand the service levels etc. to get your PPL ticket!
R1
Phase 1 of a CAA review of Air Traffic Services Outside Controlled Airspace (ATSOCAS) was completed in November 2004. It confirmed there was no common level of understanding between pilots and air traffic controllers regarding their individual responsibilities and the differences between the air traffic services available.
R1
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It is an issue for pro's as well. For example, I fly with pilots who don't seem to realise that when we get to certain airfields we aren't still under radar control. And often ATCO's don't bother to tell us what sort of service we have - so I end up nudging them with "Is this a radar advisory service?" I don't think the ATCO's are being slack - I just think that they take for granted that pilots know what is happening when they don't necessarily - and pilots who spend 95% of their time in controlled airspace don't register that sometimes they might not be.
Young Paul, you took the words out of my mouth.
With a variety of carriers (mainly lo-co but not exclusively so) flying into airports outside CAS the survey could be just as relevant to professional pilots. Blackpool, Coventry, Inverness, Doncaster, Humberside... the list is longer than one might first think.
As you say, I'm sure that sometimes the expectations of commercial operators in such circumstances mightn't match exactly the reality of the situation. This study by the regulators might help in the long run.
With a variety of carriers (mainly lo-co but not exclusively so) flying into airports outside CAS the survey could be just as relevant to professional pilots. Blackpool, Coventry, Inverness, Doncaster, Humberside... the list is longer than one might first think.
As you say, I'm sure that sometimes the expectations of commercial operators in such circumstances mightn't match exactly the reality of the situation. This study by the regulators might help in the long run.
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The quote from Ranger One is disturbing, however...
When I tested prospective PPL's (or even foreign licence holders) for the Radiotelephony licence invariably the candidate did not understand what a RIS or RAS, and sometimes even a FIS was, or the difference between them. This was at an airfield in close proximity to controlled airspace and also areas of LARS availability. I spent quite a bit of time after the tests explaining the differences, not the ideal time to learn a fairly complex issue!
During airline operations I sometimes encountered a similar ignorance of the rules and regs from f/o's, and not always 'low houred' f/o's at that...
When I tested prospective PPL's (or even foreign licence holders) for the Radiotelephony licence invariably the candidate did not understand what a RIS or RAS, and sometimes even a FIS was, or the difference between them. This was at an airfield in close proximity to controlled airspace and also areas of LARS availability. I spent quite a bit of time after the tests explaining the differences, not the ideal time to learn a fairly complex issue!
During airline operations I sometimes encountered a similar ignorance of the rules and regs from f/o's, and not always 'low houred' f/o's at that...
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Young Paul, Charley:
Perhaps you have a point; the rise of the lo-cos has occured since I started living and working overseas. Last time I flew Ryanair they consisted of a few portakabins and 111s!
Meeb: my point exactly. Have aviators just become less professional in the last ten years? When I was a PPL I was too afraid of making an arse of myself by not understanding a service offered, and learned this stuff! I learned TRPACER, where the final R is for service Requested... you request the service, you get it, or are told it's not available and offered something else. Where's the confusion, even for a PPL?!
R1
Perhaps you have a point; the rise of the lo-cos has occured since I started living and working overseas. Last time I flew Ryanair they consisted of a few portakabins and 111s!
Meeb: my point exactly. Have aviators just become less professional in the last ten years? When I was a PPL I was too afraid of making an arse of myself by not understanding a service offered, and learned this stuff! I learned TRPACER, where the final R is for service Requested... you request the service, you get it, or are told it's not available and offered something else. Where's the confusion, even for a PPL?!
R1
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sad to see the Mods have buried this in what I consider a back water.
With the regular Airprox reports involving Public Transport flights and fast Military jets Outside Controlled Airspace I'd have thought this was a topic worthy of a sticky n the News section to ensure a wider audience of haps and chapesses who earn a crust in the unregulated ether.
Sir George Cayley
With the regular Airprox reports involving Public Transport flights and fast Military jets Outside Controlled Airspace I'd have thought this was a topic worthy of a sticky n the News section to ensure a wider audience of haps and chapesses who earn a crust in the unregulated ether.
Sir George Cayley
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I think this is a very important issue and would be very glad if people could provide their views.
However, I don't think it is appropriate to TechLog, so am moving this thread to Safety & CRM Forum.
My apologies to anyone who feels they're having to run around PPRuNe trying to find it!
However, I don't think it is appropriate to TechLog, so am moving this thread to Safety & CRM Forum.
My apologies to anyone who feels they're having to run around PPRuNe trying to find it!
