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So no, not really comparable at all...
Bear in mind MD was a hot mess for a decade or maybe four when "they bought Boeing with Boeing's money."
If Airbus takes Boeing Commercial Airplane division, adding to former ATR (50% held by Airbus) and Bombardier, that will be a >90% domination by 1 Supplier. Totally unacceptable in terms of market sanity.
From my moderately aviation tech enlightened SLF viewpoint, I prefer the Boeing approach to flight deck design, but, dang it, engineering has to execute.
Now that Spirit Aerosystems is about to be sold and carved up tween Boeing and Airbus Industries, I wonder what might happen if, in a strictly hypothetical situation, the US authorities decide that Boeing is too big and too uncontrollable and split the various sectors to the highest bidder.
As far as space goes, who would even want to touch that? ULA is already deep in decades of inefficiency, and, embarrassingly, can't even remotely compete with SpaceX.
Last edited by remi; 29th Jun 2024 at 01:54.
Starliner but wow
https://spacenews.com/starliner-to-r...hruster-tests/
Paraphrasing: "We could use it as an emergency vehicle if the emergency was aliens or re-entry, but we're going to study this otherwise."
https://spacenews.com/starliner-to-r...hruster-tests/
Paraphrasing: "We could use it as an emergency vehicle if the emergency was aliens or re-entry, but we're going to study this otherwise."
Starliner but wow
https://spacenews.com/starliner-to-r...hruster-tests/
Paraphrasing: "We could use it as an emergency vehicle if the emergency was aliens or re-entry, but we're going to study this otherwise."
https://spacenews.com/starliner-to-r...hruster-tests/
Paraphrasing: "We could use it as an emergency vehicle if the emergency was aliens or re-entry, but we're going to study this otherwise."
So it's not an issue of crew safety during this re-entry, but the importance of tracking down the underlying problem for future missions.
Astronauts thinking "Just think, we're dependent on the company that made the 737 MAX..."
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I understood the joke. 
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“I guess the question I'm asked the most often is: "When you were sitting in that capsule listening to the count-down, how did you feel?" Well, the answer to that one is easy. I felt exactly how you would feel if you were getting ready to launch and knew you were sitting on top of two million parts -- all built by the lowest bidder on a government contract.” John Glenn
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Oh come on, it's a play on an old astronaut joke.
“I guess the question I'm asked the most often is: "When you were sitting in that capsule listening to the count-down, how did you feel?" Well, the answer to that one is easy. I felt exactly how you would feel if you were getting ready to launch and knew you were sitting on top of two million parts -- all built by the lowest bidder on a government contract.” John Glenn
“I guess the question I'm asked the most often is: "When you were sitting in that capsule listening to the count-down, how did you feel?" Well, the answer to that one is easy. I felt exactly how you would feel if you were getting ready to launch and knew you were sitting on top of two million parts -- all built by the lowest bidder on a government contract.” John Glenn
But invoking the lowest bidder quip does have some resonance despite this, as it's darn near certain the two Starliner astronauts would agree that the agency would very much like to have a return to the days when, before launch - at least according to Hollywood - the question often asked was whether anyone knew where Guenter went?
Last edited by WillowRun 6-3; 30th Jun 2024 at 07:57.
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Did a fellowship in Galveston at UTMB once upon a time. I quickly found out about the Houston space center, and, as it was 20 minutes or so away from Galveston, I became kind of a Regular.
The Engineers (and Astronauts, when they were around) hung out, back then, at a bar called Peetees which was across the street from the south entrance.
i had a fairly long friendship with a guy that started there when mercury was starting up, (he was a high schoo intern) and he remained in charge of their giant vacuum chamber until I moved back north (Well toward the end of the space shuttle era)
i think we need a bunch of 30 y/o engineers from land grant schools wearing shirts with black ties.
The Engineers (and Astronauts, when they were around) hung out, back then, at a bar called Peetees which was across the street from the south entrance.
i had a fairly long friendship with a guy that started there when mercury was starting up, (he was a high schoo intern) and he remained in charge of their giant vacuum chamber until I moved back north (Well toward the end of the space shuttle era)
i think we need a bunch of 30 y/o engineers from land grant schools wearing shirts with black ties.
In the last couple of hours....
US prosecutors meet Boeing, crash victims as criminal-charges decision looms
US prosecutors meet Boeing, crash victims as criminal-charges decision looms
Otherwise a two class jurisdiction sneaks in. Where the wealthy with access to a myriad of expensive attorneys can buy their way out of normality - which is to both parties bring forward their points in a trial and a Jury makes a decision. Especially in criminal cases.
If Boeing (and possibly individuals?) gets away a second time, you can really forget the term "responsibilities", can't you.
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WSJ reporting that DOJ has met with families of people killed in the two accidents, and that it will give Boeing two choices. - plead guilty to a fraud-conspiracy charge, or face trial. Per the reporting, DOJ says it will not negotiate any lesser outcome.
Penalties would be $243 million; Boeing can select the firm to monitor its safety and compliance programs subject to DOJ veto.
Article also reports on strenuous objections already being asserted by the families and their counsel.
It's a cheap observation, I realize, but things are going to get very interesting in the U.S. District Court in which this matter is pending.
Penalties would be $243 million; Boeing can select the firm to monitor its safety and compliance programs subject to DOJ veto.
Article also reports on strenuous objections already being asserted by the families and their counsel.
It's a cheap observation, I realize, but things are going to get very interesting in the U.S. District Court in which this matter is pending.
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Another 244 Million $ fine, accepting being Guilty, 3 years probation and external monitoring, according to Seattle Times. 1 week for Boeing to decide if they accept the deal.
The meeting with Families attorneys was only informative, no changes in the proposal.
A judge has to approve. WillowRun, is this a simple yes/no decision, and is the proposal "standard business", if it can be called that in the first place?
The meeting with Families attorneys was only informative, no changes in the proposal.
A judge has to approve. WillowRun, is this a simple yes/no decision, and is the proposal "standard business", if it can be called that in the first place?
In regard to the families of the Max crashes victims, what happened to those who were shafted by Giradi & Keese, have they now got decent legal support and being taken care of properly?
Losing loved ones in a plane crash is hard enough to come to terms with but then to be shafted by the lawyers they trusted too, was downright disgraceful. I would like to hope they are being looked after correctly now, and although no amount of money will ever take the pain of losing a loved one away, I do hope that they are being taken care of.
Losing loved ones in a plane crash is hard enough to come to terms with but then to be shafted by the lawyers they trusted too, was downright disgraceful. I would like to hope they are being looked after correctly now, and although no amount of money will ever take the pain of losing a loved one away, I do hope that they are being taken care of.
Giradi & Keese - The book "God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater" was supposed to be fiction, not an inspiration.
― Kurt Vonnegut, God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater
Perhaps Giradi & Keese failed to understand the correct technique.
“In every big transaction,” said Leech, “there is a magic moment during which a man has surrendered a treasure, and during which the man who is due to receive it has not yet done so. An alert lawyer will make that moment his own, possessing the treasure for a magic microsecond, taking a little of it, passing it on. If the man who is to receive the treasure is unused to wealth, has an inferiority complex and shapeless feelings of guilt, as most people do, the lawyer can often take as much as half the bundle, and still receive the recipient’s blubbering thanks.”
Perhaps Giradi & Keese failed to understand the correct technique.
Last edited by MechEngr; 1st Jul 2024 at 07:04.
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Seems that Boeing have finally bought out Spirit.
Boeing agrees to buy spinoff Spirit Aerosystems as part of plan to shore up safety
Wonder what that means for the Airbus parts that Spirit made?
Boeing agrees to buy spinoff Spirit Aerosystems as part of plan to shore up safety
Wonder what that means for the Airbus parts that Spirit made?