Latest Boeing News
An interesting item in today's Daily Telegraph. Boing and the unions are negotiating for a new series of contracts. The Unions feel boing to be over a barrel and hope to gain a 40% wage increase.
Interesting times, again!
Interesting times, again!
Why does Boeing seem to be wanting to commit commercial suicide?
They are under so much scrutiny the last thing they should be doing is leaking anything, or do they really believe that they are somehow untouchable and that rules of the game do not apply to them?
Sheer corporate arrogance.
They are under so much scrutiny the last thing they should be doing is leaking anything, or do they really believe that they are somehow untouchable and that rules of the game do not apply to them?
Sheer corporate arrogance.
Is Boeing Commercial too broken to fix ?
In regard to the leaks, there is another possibility (harder to prove unless there is a paper tail)....disgruntled employees. It is already well documented that the shopfloor is not entirely happy, you would not have whistleblowers if everything was great. What if these leaks are coming from the middle management level...either actual management or even a peeved secretary. It isn't unheard of to have disgruntled employees who sabotage their employer when they feel they are not being listened to by upper management.
As much as I agree that Boeing are a very significant company with alot of fingers in various pies, they are not immune...or at least should not be immune...to having the full weight of the law being thrown at them and even the big corporations can and do sometimes fail (often due to their own actions and behaviour)
In regard to the leaks, there is another possibility (harder to prove unless there is a paper tail)....disgruntled employees. It is already well documented that the shopfloor is not entirely happy, you would not have whistleblowers if everything was great. What if these leaks are coming from the middle management level...either actual management or even a peeved secretary. It isn't unheard of to have disgruntled employees who sabotage their employer when they feel they are not being listened to by upper management.
In regard to the leaks, there is another possibility (harder to prove unless there is a paper tail)....disgruntled employees. It is already well documented that the shopfloor is not entirely happy, you would not have whistleblowers if everything was great. What if these leaks are coming from the middle management level...either actual management or even a peeved secretary. It isn't unheard of to have disgruntled employees who sabotage their employer when they feel they are not being listened to by upper management.
In other words, the issue here isn't "leaks" from anyone else other than the p.r. briefer and the pertinent corporate org-chart reporting chain. Not disgruntled folks, it would seem, and not someone uninvolved in press relations, .... based on what has been reported so far, at least.
Possibly something less to this story than at first appears to be the case. . . . This is not to defend or excuse what was - as noted alreasdy - sloppy press relations difficult to believe would take place given the stakes of pending issues for the company. It is to say that not every violation of process rules turns out to have had any impact.
Last edited by OldnGrounded; 27th Jun 2024 at 15:59. Reason: Fix typo.
Damage
Looks like their PR is replete with substandard parts. On attempting to control (direct) the narrative, incompetence and desperation are a spec sheet for failure. What:is gone now is the legacy of Boeing's arrogant dominance of the state. This is a good thing. Watch this spot.
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True, but it seems to me that the NTSB's public announcement that it is terminating Boeing's access to the docket, which means it won't be able to question witnesses, together with "coordinating" with DOJ in the ongoing criminal matter, already constitutes impact, in and of itself. We don't know, now, how serious that impact may be, of course, but it is impact.
On the DOJ process . . .. yesterday I went looking for a post from some time ago which had mentioned a piece of information I brought up on Wednesday (in a thread about a SWA incident). Ended up rereading a bunch of posts from May 24 2019 thread, MAX's Return Delayed by FAA etc. Deja vu all over again. Again, there will be impact - I agree. Probably not on the wrenching choices about prosecution or not, but it will show up in the terms and conditions under an extended DPA if that is the form of action going forward. (I guess my former defense counsel reflexes haven't all dried up.)
Looks like their PR is replete with substandard parts. On attempting to control (direct) the narrative, incompetence and desperation are a spec sheet for failure. What:is gone now is the legacy of Boeing's arrogant dominance of the state. This is a good thing. Watch this spot.
Again, there will be impact - I agree. Probably not on the wrenching choices about prosecution or not, but it will show up in the terms and conditions under an extended DPA if that is the form of action going forward. (I guess my former defense counsel reflexes haven't all dried up.)
I think a couple of things are pretty clear (other than what most of us think of as the fact that BCA has really screwed up its business of making big jet airliners). First, it's been clear for a long time that Boeing's reputation among the general public is in tatters. That matters a lot for any business, which is why the ones that have sufficient resources expend serious energy and money on generating good PR and countering bad. And if your business is making airplanes that much of the world trusts, repeatedly, with their lives, the PR really, really matters. Every hit in this latest series has been terrible for Boeing and here's yet another.
Also, it's becoming increasingly clear that the regulators are truly fed up with the company. The NTSB hasn't hesitated to issue bluntly accusatory statements since the early days of the door plug investigation and this latest is really rather extraordinary. The FAA is fed up for a number of good reasons, not least because Boeing keeps making it look like like an incompetent captive agency (not exactly true but not entirely untrue) while it simultaneously has to deal with a Congress that is loath to appropriate what the FAA considers adequate funding. Boeing may be too big to fail (I think it is), but it sure isn't, these days, too big to slap around. And that's not good for Boeing or for aviation, or for the US.
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Oldngrounded
Yup, we agree.
I think a couple of things are pretty clear (other than what most of us think of as the fact that BCA has really screwed up its business of making big jet airliners). First, it's been clear for a long time that Boeing's reputation among the general public is in tatters. That matters a lot for any business, which is why the ones that have sufficient resources expend serious energy and money on generating good PR and countering bad. And if your business is making airplanes that much of the world trusts, repeatedly, with their lives, the PR really, really matters. Every hit in this latest series has been terrible for Boeing and here's yet another.
Also, it's becoming increasingly clear that the regulators are truly fed up with the company. The NTSB hasn't hesitated to issue bluntly accusatory statements since the early days of the door plug investigation and this latest is really rather extraordinary. The FAA is fed up for a number of good reasons, not least because Boeing keeps making it look like like an incompetent captive agency (not exactly true but not entirely untrue) while it simultaneously has to deal with a Congress that is loath to appropriate what the FAA considers adequate funding. Boeing may be too big to fail (I think it is), but it sure isn't, these days, too big to slap around. And that's not good for Boeing or for aviation, or for the US.
I think a couple of things are pretty clear (other than what most of us think of as the fact that BCA has really screwed up its business of making big jet airliners). First, it's been clear for a long time that Boeing's reputation among the general public is in tatters. That matters a lot for any business, which is why the ones that have sufficient resources expend serious energy and money on generating good PR and countering bad. And if your business is making airplanes that much of the world trusts, repeatedly, with their lives, the PR really, really matters. Every hit in this latest series has been terrible for Boeing and here's yet another.
Also, it's becoming increasingly clear that the regulators are truly fed up with the company. The NTSB hasn't hesitated to issue bluntly accusatory statements since the early days of the door plug investigation and this latest is really rather extraordinary. The FAA is fed up for a number of good reasons, not least because Boeing keeps making it look like like an incompetent captive agency (not exactly true but not entirely untrue) while it simultaneously has to deal with a Congress that is loath to appropriate what the FAA considers adequate funding. Boeing may be too big to fail (I think it is), but it sure isn't, these days, too big to slap around. And that's not good for Boeing or for aviation, or for the US.
That's a better take than mine. I guess I have thought of the NTSB inquiry about the door plug incident as a process in which Boeing couldn't actually help itself by questioning witnesses - I realize heresy for legal counsel to say - because the facts are rather definitive already. The bolts were not where they were supposed to be, and isn't most of the inquiry about what happened in the factory? Have NTSB inquiries reached manufacturing at this level previously? - I don't know. But all that said, you're right, sanctions being levied are not a good thing, and do amount to impact.
Here's their letter to Boeing, it makes painful reading:
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That letter is so damning and it will hurt and, in the circumstances, rightly so.
Boeing appears to have been playing fast and loose for a long time and due to the company's history and connections, the various authorities have been cutting them a bit too much slack and perhaps treated the company with far too much respect, as if they can do no wrong which is never a good thing to do.
As a regular user of Boeing products, along with millions of others who do the same and the crews who also depend on their products to deliver them safely at destination, the attitude and disdain shown by Boeing has been attrocious.
I cannot help but feel that any other company would have been hung, drawn and quartered a long time ago, Boeing seems to have been given some sort of almost special status, untouchable, unaccountable and always squeaky clean no matter what. Excuses made, pass the buck on blame a whole miriad of things that no other company would ever have if they had been exposed like Boeing has in recent years.
I truly hope that the NTSB continue digging and that the FAA are given some sort of meaningful punishment since they too have been turning a blind eye for too long. I also hope that the forthcoming Presidential election does not derail the investigations or cause leniency in the final punishment given. Afterall it is no secret that big businesses across the world donate to the political side of the fence that would give them a more favourable working environment. The next President must absolutely must allow the investigations continue into Boeing and secure appropriate punishment for Boeing and not cover it up or brush it under the rug for the sake of a political party donation. People's lives depend on Boeing's pandora's box to be opened, investigated and smashed and if that means the end of the company in its present state then so be it.
Boeing appears to have been playing fast and loose for a long time and due to the company's history and connections, the various authorities have been cutting them a bit too much slack and perhaps treated the company with far too much respect, as if they can do no wrong which is never a good thing to do.
As a regular user of Boeing products, along with millions of others who do the same and the crews who also depend on their products to deliver them safely at destination, the attitude and disdain shown by Boeing has been attrocious.
I cannot help but feel that any other company would have been hung, drawn and quartered a long time ago, Boeing seems to have been given some sort of almost special status, untouchable, unaccountable and always squeaky clean no matter what. Excuses made, pass the buck on blame a whole miriad of things that no other company would ever have if they had been exposed like Boeing has in recent years.
I truly hope that the NTSB continue digging and that the FAA are given some sort of meaningful punishment since they too have been turning a blind eye for too long. I also hope that the forthcoming Presidential election does not derail the investigations or cause leniency in the final punishment given. Afterall it is no secret that big businesses across the world donate to the political side of the fence that would give them a more favourable working environment. The next President must absolutely must allow the investigations continue into Boeing and secure appropriate punishment for Boeing and not cover it up or brush it under the rug for the sake of a political party donation. People's lives depend on Boeing's pandora's box to be opened, investigated and smashed and if that means the end of the company in its present state then so be it.
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Apologies if this has been posted before, if it was I didn't find it.
New Boeing Whistleblower Warns of Potentially 'Devastating Consequences' From Plane Flaws
https://gizmodo.com/new-boeing-whist...ati-1851564671
New Boeing Whistleblower Warns of Potentially 'Devastating Consequences' From Plane Flaws
Richard Cuevas, described by his lawyers as an experienced mechanic and a 40-year veteran of the airline industry, used to work for Strom, a contractor with Spirit, which is Boeing’s primary parts supplier. Cuevas says that during his time with the company, he saw “critical drilling and sealant issues” on some of the 787 Dreamliner aircraft that he worked on. Specifically, what are called fastener holes located in the plane’s forward pressure bulkhead—the likes of which help different parts of an aircraft fit together—weren’t being drilled to the correct specification, he says, and were slightly larger than they were supposed to be. Those issues could have potentially led to “devastating consequences,” he says, including the “compromise [of] power and air pressure on the planes.”
Now that Spirit Aerosystems is about to be sold and carved up tween Boeing and Airbus Industries, I wonder what might happen if, in a strictly hypothetical situation, the US authorities decide that Boeing is too big and too uncontrollable and split the various sectors to the highest bidder. The aerospace part, the airliner part, the military part etc all seperate entities and sold off or condensed. That would be a poke in the eye if Airbus took the airliner sector. All hypothetical of course....
Would the WTF step in to prevent that?
Or Airbus will be cut into competing corporations.
The military sector, isn't Lockheed-Martin larger than Boeing now?
Boeing could, hypothetically, be carved up and sold off and that would essentially consign Boeing to the history books
Well there is a sort of precedent there...prior to Airbus Industries getting themselves all sorted out and becoming effectively #2 behind Boeing.....didn't Boeing do exactly that when they went shopping and purchased airliner division at McDonnell-Douglas in 1997?
The military sector, isn't Lockheed-Martin larger than Boeing now?
Boeing could, hypothetically, be carved up and sold off and that would essentially consign Boeing to the history books
The military sector, isn't Lockheed-Martin larger than Boeing now?
Boeing could, hypothetically, be carved up and sold off and that would essentially consign Boeing to the history books
Not ideal, but competitive enough.
If Airbus takes Boeing Commercial Airplane division, adding to former ATR (50% held by Airbus) and Bombardier, that will be a >90% domination by 1 Supplier. Totally unacceptable in terms of market sanity.
Only Competitor left was Embraer. Not Chinese COMAC, currently not Russian Sukhoi.
That's why Airbus is also worried re Boeing fate, cause they fear being divided to break down the domination.
Customers do not need to worry for quality, cause they will face two ex Airbus manufacturers with excellent quality products. But the company with the ex Boeing lineup must work on them, cause they can't immediately replace it production wise.
Last edited by waito; 28th Jun 2024 at 17:34.