MH17 down near Donetsk
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What is apparent also is that there was significant mid-air disintegration as shown by the wide spread of bodies.
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One thing is certain , we have never seen photographic documentation of a major crash scene like this.
"The tail section was well separated from the main body of the aircraft"
Only by about 700m.
Only by about 700m.
the front end of the plane (cockpit + business) was indeed detached at missile impact and falled down on ~ original trajectory
It is always amazing to see that large pieces of debris falling at terminal velicity (round 150 kt) stays much more intact, than an aerodynamically much better whole aircraft impacting at 300kt. On the other hand, the later one means 4 times the energy...
the bigger middle/rear part (eco + wings + tails) veered left.
What I am still wondering about is the second burned debris field, with the videos from the impact clearly showing one single fireball and plume of smoke. But maybe that is just matter of the perspective, with both fires in line from the point of view.
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no CVR tampering
In a statement the[Dutch safety] board said: 'The CVR was damaged but the memory module was intact.
'Furthermore no evidence or indications of manipulation of the CVR was found.
'Following the examination, the CVR data was successfully downloaded and contained valid data from the flight
'Furthermore no evidence or indications of manipulation of the CVR was found.
'Following the examination, the CVR data was successfully downloaded and contained valid data from the flight
Did anyone seriously expect tampering with the black boxes?
Well yes, probably the separatists -- that's why they were careful who they handed them over to.
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Well yes, probably the separatists -- that's why they were careful who they handed them over to.
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Looking at Jeroen Akkerman's photos showing multiple perforations which created a colander effect on much of the skin I'm surprised there was so much fuel left in the tanks when the remains reached the ground.
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2 OleOle
With regard to the MailOnline schematical picture showing a G2A missile below a plane, it is worth noting that the BUK missile hits the target from above. This kind of a trajectory was mentioned in some Russian sources. The warhead explodes at a distance about 17 m to target.
With regard to the MailOnline schematical picture showing a G2A missile below a plane, it is worth noting that the BUK missile hits the target from above. This kind of a trajectory was mentioned in some Russian sources. The warhead explodes at a distance about 17 m to target.
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Looking at Jeroen Akkerman's photos showing multiple perforations which created a colander effect on much of the skin I'm surprised there was so much fuel left in the tanks
OleOle asks: What would happen to the fuel tanks, if they were penetrated by high energy shrapnel in mid-air?
However, while a big ball of fire could be expected, not every aircraft burns in this way. I would expect MH17 to catch fire, but it is possible that the aircraft might not burst into flames even after being hit with a relatively large warhead. Several combat losses I witnessed did not burn up in the air.
Judging from the pictures of MH17, it looks to me as though there was a big fire after the aircraft impacted the ground. I would say there was plenty of fuel remaining when it hit. I haven't seen any good photos or videos of the aircraft as it fell, so I can't say if it was on fire or not.
Expanding rod damage (Sparrow)
Blast Frag damage (SA-16)
MH17 damage
note - if an expanding rod warhead detonates at a range greater than the maximum radius of the expanding rod 'hoop' (after which the hoop breaks up into individual elements), then it gets harder to tell the difference on one piece of wreckage. A blast frag has a larger spread widthwise than an expanding rod. a few pieces of damaged wreckage from different extremities of the aircraft will confirm blast frag.
Blast Frag damage (SA-16)
MH17 damage
note - if an expanding rod warhead detonates at a range greater than the maximum radius of the expanding rod 'hoop' (after which the hoop breaks up into individual elements), then it gets harder to tell the difference on one piece of wreckage. A blast frag has a larger spread widthwise than an expanding rod. a few pieces of damaged wreckage from different extremities of the aircraft will confirm blast frag.
Last edited by Fox3WheresMyBanana; 24th Jul 2014 at 13:37.
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Together, the two data-collecting devices can paint a picture nearly impossible to piece together through other means, which is one reason that Razak, in listing his priorities for the investigation into the downing of Flight 17, ordered them as: “first is the bodies, second is the black box, and third is the crash site.”
Tampering with any digital data of known format is a piece of cake. As thousands of people around the world must be able to read out Black Boxes, nothing about their way of working or the data format is secret. But I seriously doubt that such action was necessary, there is nothing and has never been any data on the recorder after the missile destroyed the Cockpit and ripped the nose section including the avionics bay off the plane.
I do not expect more than a sudden interruption of data from a flight which was perfectly normal up to that point.
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FDR - CVR
The FDR probably will show a normal flight, then maybe nothing. Maybe. The avionics area would have been badly fragged, but the front section did not separate immediately. Nor did the tail section where the recorders were, so it could have continued to record until the wiring to the tail ripped. This would tell us when the port engine was lost and how long the starboard engine had fuel, which could reflect on where/when the main tanks ruptured. It won't help with cause, which is already known. It would help map the breakup.
The CVR will be able to settle three points
1: discussions with ATC about route or altitude changes
2: do these match with eventually compared ATC recordings which were "confiscated" at the time
3: any mention of fighter escort or activity nearby
The missile impact may be on it or not. Probably yes. But this is not important, as the skin is full of evidence.
The CVR will be able to settle three points
1: discussions with ATC about route or altitude changes
2: do these match with eventually compared ATC recordings which were "confiscated" at the time
3: any mention of fighter escort or activity nearby
The missile impact may be on it or not. Probably yes. But this is not important, as the skin is full of evidence.
I wonder if SIA pilots could actually see the moment of explosion or even missile trail since they were only some 20-30 miles behind and probably had MH17 in sight?
AreOut:
The Australian investigators are in addition to other investigators already onsite (including Dutch, Malaysian, US, and others). This is to be expected as there were 27 Australians onboard. Normal protocol.
The Australian investigators are in addition to other investigators already onsite (including Dutch, Malaysian, US, and others). This is to be expected as there were 27 Australians onboard. Normal protocol.
If the FDR has xyz accelerometers is it possible the initial blast impact could have registered enough to get an exact blast angle ?
Similarly, the CVR probably captured a few milliseconds of a sudden loud noise, perhaps preceded by someone saying something along the line of "WHAT'S THAT!"
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Jeroen Akkermans has uploaded a 4th album of photos. This set contains close up image of the cockpit skin piece seen leaning against a street lamp.
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jer...h/14705660266/
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jer...h/14705660266/
Last edited by Mudman; 24th Jul 2014 at 16:08. Reason: spelling