Setting up as Owner/Operator
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Setting up as Owner/Operator
Does anyone have any advice for someone thinking about setting up as an owner/operator in the UK? Good idea, bad idea, costs associated with it, anyone else out there that has done it/is doing it - anything really!! I'm newly qualified but am keen to work for myself even if that means lower financial rewards (well, atleast initially 
) I'm thinking along the lines of an R44 clipper...
Thanks alot,
Charlie
) I'm thinking along the lines of an R44 clipper...Thanks alot,
Charlie
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You'll now get a truckload of cynicism - and the usual "if you want to make a small fortune in helicopters start with a large one..." etc etc. So - thought I'd get in early to say good on you.
Suggest you try talking to the CAA about getting your AOC - shouldn't take more than a decade. Or you could try starting with an existing AOC holder - who will offer you such a ludicrous deal on leaseback that you'll cry when you see the quarterly statements.
You can count on one three-fingered hand the number of helicopter operators in Britain who are actually making a profit from heli ops of any kind.
You have to control all the costs (and unless you have your own airfield, maint facility and fuel supply, that's impossible) and you have to be prepared to see your machine flown for 400 hrs annually (R22) or about 250 hrs (R44) before you start to make a washer of profit.
There's not much money in flying them - but there's a decent amount to be had screwing them back together.
Suggest you try talking to the CAA about getting your AOC - shouldn't take more than a decade. Or you could try starting with an existing AOC holder - who will offer you such a ludicrous deal on leaseback that you'll cry when you see the quarterly statements.
You can count on one three-fingered hand the number of helicopter operators in Britain who are actually making a profit from heli ops of any kind.
You have to control all the costs (and unless you have your own airfield, maint facility and fuel supply, that's impossible) and you have to be prepared to see your machine flown for 400 hrs annually (R22) or about 250 hrs (R44) before you start to make a washer of profit.
There's not much money in flying them - but there's a decent amount to be had screwing them back together.
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Thanks for the positive feedback - to be honest when I posted this I was expecting the "truckload of cynicism" but figured I would hopefully be able to dig some useful pointers and pitfalls from it - quite nice to have a positive post!!!
As naive as my post may appear, I'm not new to business, just to the helicopter business. I'm aware its not going to be a bed of roses, but I have to look at what options I have as a low hour pilot.
1. Look for work. Typically this means trying to grab the elusive co-pilot position for offshore work as they are big enough to swallow the insurance problem. Net result probably sitting around unemployed for 12-18months, which equates to 12-18mths lost salary so you're losing before you even started, and thats assuming you even get the job.
2. Buy your hours until you no longer get laughed at when you ask for a job, which is going to cost a lot of money but you could offset this against the fact you start earning a salary quicker
3. Get your own helicopter. Worst case scenario you can't make it as a business, so you end up effectively buying your hours as in #2 but probably paid considerably less than you would have with self-fly rates at your local school. Sell your chopper and head back to Aus to chase some more cows Best-case scenario it actually turns some form of a profit and you keep doing it. Reality, probably a mixture of the two - although its not viable long-term, you built up some hours, you learnt more about the industry, you got some valuable experience and you move on. As you may gather, I consider that the lesser of the evils
Comments?!?
As naive as my post may appear, I'm not new to business, just to the helicopter business. I'm aware its not going to be a bed of roses, but I have to look at what options I have as a low hour pilot.
1. Look for work. Typically this means trying to grab the elusive co-pilot position for offshore work as they are big enough to swallow the insurance problem. Net result probably sitting around unemployed for 12-18months, which equates to 12-18mths lost salary so you're losing before you even started, and thats assuming you even get the job.
2. Buy your hours until you no longer get laughed at when you ask for a job, which is going to cost a lot of money but you could offset this against the fact you start earning a salary quicker
3. Get your own helicopter. Worst case scenario you can't make it as a business, so you end up effectively buying your hours as in #2 but probably paid considerably less than you would have with self-fly rates at your local school. Sell your chopper and head back to Aus to chase some more cows
Best-case scenario it actually turns some form of a profit and you keep doing it. Reality, probably a mixture of the two - although its not viable long-term, you built up some hours, you learnt more about the industry, you got some valuable experience and you move on. As you may gather, I consider that the lesser of the evilsComments?!?
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owner/operator
If you look on the CAA website I think you will be able to see what they will charge you for an AOC. I suspect that your biggest problem as a low-time heli man will be convincing them that you can be the chief pilot 'cos if you can't the cost of hiring someone will screww the economics....if you can find someone these days.
Suggest you give Belgrano a ring and talk to the helicopter guys there.
Good luck
Suggest you give Belgrano a ring and talk to the helicopter guys there.
Good luck
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You need a helicopter, of course - it used to be that you could get away with just having access to one, but you may need "custody & control" these days.
You need documentation (ops manual etc - pm me for details) - have the ops manual done before you apply, as this will save time - they won't read it until the first inspection anyway, but still get it done.
You need a chief pilot, as mentioned above - you might get away with being one yourself, with a supervision arrangement with another compay or person.
You need enough cash to pay for the AOC in the first place and to keep going without income for at least 6 months, as the CAA will take some time to process you - after that it's the customers who won't pay, particularly travel agents!
If you have one machine and, say, a husband and wife team and control the costs, with the prospect of about 500 hours work, you should be able to make a reasonable living - you just have to be creative about what type of work you do.
On that front, I have never been a fan of contracts - although they do provide some sort of income, they just wear your machine out for less money - better to wait for the good stuff to come along and charge full tarrif.
Hope that helps - pm if you have questions
Phil
You need documentation (ops manual etc - pm me for details) - have the ops manual done before you apply, as this will save time - they won't read it until the first inspection anyway, but still get it done.
You need a chief pilot, as mentioned above - you might get away with being one yourself, with a supervision arrangement with another compay or person.
You need enough cash to pay for the AOC in the first place and to keep going without income for at least 6 months, as the CAA will take some time to process you - after that it's the customers who won't pay, particularly travel agents!
If you have one machine and, say, a husband and wife team and control the costs, with the prospect of about 500 hours work, you should be able to make a reasonable living - you just have to be creative about what type of work you do.
On that front, I have never been a fan of contracts - although they do provide some sort of income, they just wear your machine out for less money - better to wait for the good stuff to come along and charge full tarrif.
Hope that helps - pm if you have questions
Phil
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I can't help but say that from a business perspective there are significantly easier ways of earning a living. There would need to be another reason for doing it ...........
Re: Paco's comments, in my experience, these days, the CAA won't give you the AOC until they have approved the Ops Manual. Give yourselves 6 months of toing and froing from the application until you want to turn a rotor blade.
The other advice seems about right ............. I have been involved in setting up a few AOCs - happy to exchange PMs etc
Re: Paco's comments, in my experience, these days, the CAA won't give you the AOC until they have approved the Ops Manual. Give yourselves 6 months of toing and froing from the application until you want to turn a rotor blade.
The other advice seems about right ............. I have been involved in setting up a few AOCs - happy to exchange PMs etc
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One thing you most certainly should do is a business and marketing plan. Look at where you are interested in setting up business and ask yourself a lot of questions. Some of these should be:
* What do I want to do with a helicopter.
* Can the region support a helicopter.
* Who and where are my compeititors.
* Why would they come to me over someone else.
* Can I operate a particular type so that I make some money or at least break even. (no point in doing it if the business plan says you will go broke).
* Will people fly with me if I have low hours.
Also look at conducting enquiries as to whether the local councils will even let you operate a helicopter in the region, unless its at the airport of course.
Its a big ask to get a business going at the best of time, especially now in todays climate. Others have made some great suggestions re the licencing side of things. Above all make sure you do your research, thoroughly.
* What do I want to do with a helicopter.
* Can the region support a helicopter.
* Who and where are my compeititors.
* Why would they come to me over someone else.
* Can I operate a particular type so that I make some money or at least break even. (no point in doing it if the business plan says you will go broke).
* Will people fly with me if I have low hours.
Also look at conducting enquiries as to whether the local councils will even let you operate a helicopter in the region, unless its at the airport of course.
Its a big ask to get a business going at the best of time, especially now in todays climate. Others have made some great suggestions re the licencing side of things. Above all make sure you do your research, thoroughly.
Thanks for the help!
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Don't forget that if you set up an operation, as your above posts suggest you are considering, with an intent to be at best break-even and even happy to take a loss (even if it is small) you will no doubt arise the ire of your local competitors. They are not there as a lark or to build time, they are there to operate a business. By undercutting them to 'build time' you perpetuate the very state of aviation that keeps the wages and tariffs basement low and keeps the new guys out of employment. Charge a FAIR tariff and operate a business, or stay out of the business I would say.
