Missile Thrown At Helicopter
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TOT
Might be useful if you named the airfield (and the volatile farmer if you wish) as a warning to other unsuspecting pilots.
TC
Both PedalStop and I have a second username for joining in discussions, but neither of us is PPF#1.
Might be useful if you named the airfield (and the volatile farmer if you wish) as a warning to other unsuspecting pilots.
TC
Both PedalStop and I have a second username for joining in discussions, but neither of us is PPF#1.
Shy Torque: I have flown in two-crew situations (both PIC/SIC and PIC/PIC) and quite enjoy it. Let us realize that only a very few helis require two pilots; most can be adequately (if not legally) flown by one person. And once we're rated and properly checked-out, a mere PPL could fly just about any helicopter ever made. Even an S-76. The co-jo is superfluous. So two pilots in said S-76 is not exactly the same thing as three pilots in a 727, where you really need the two other blokes.
I agree with you that at this stage of the game I probably should not go along on ferry/delivery/personal flights with inexperienced pilots in which I was not PIC or even SIC. If I had my way I wouldn't. But in the two cases I described, I *had* to go. I mentioned that both flights were done as personal favors. Unfortunately, it was not as a favor to the new owners. Long story, and quite irrelevant. But I take your points, and do not fundamentally disagree.
Let me just say that the very few examples that I posted were but a mere snippet of the "complaints" I had about these two chaps' flying. I'm quite dismayed at what the American FAA will accept as "good enough" for a rating these days. Then again, I guess you can't legislate judgement.
To all of you: Let's keep in mind that we are talking about single-engine helis here, not twins, okay? In his original post in this thread, TOT said he was in a two-seater. By that we can assume that his procedures were guided by single-engine considerations.
Crab: What I was getting at was this: Each of the approach scenarios I posted were realistic examples of situations I have found myself in numerous times as a commercial pilot in single-engine helicopters. In each of them, I found myself having to perform steep approaches that caused me to be within the shaded area of the H-V to varying degrees. Given your adamant objection to such operations, I merely wondered what YOU would do faced with similar conditions?
Old Man Rotor: It's not that I *don't* know how to make a single-engine approach to an oil rig. In singles, we come in steeper rather than shallow. This allows us to better judge our rates of closure and descent. It allows us to load-up the rotor early. Finally and probably most important, a steeper approach lessens the chance of having to flare to kill off any excess forward speed, however small. On an oil platform or rig, your visual cues may be extremely limited, especially if the helideck is small (they always are) and is the highest thing on the platform. Even making a "small" nose-up pitch attitude adjustment may cause the tail to strike the helideck or catch-fence.
Additionally, a steeper approach offers you more of a window to turn away from the platform/rig in the event of an engine failure on short-final. A shallow approach is dangerous from that aspect.
OMR, your ignorance of these techniques is probably due merely to your inexperience with such operations. Please do not feel bad. With more flight time and exposure, these weaknesses can be addressed and corrected. (Oh, but feel free to add a "surgeon general's" warning as a postscript to any of my posts. That should make you appear nice and mature.
That BlenderPilot gets it:
Exactly! But TOT seemed worried that if another pilot who perhaps didn't have the benefit of his years and thousands of hours of experience encountered the same situation, the outcome might have been worse. Oh please. I suspect that even the wettest-ink Robbo pilot who was at 75 feet and saw a cap thrown by a farmer to an "altitude" of 5 metres (15 feet - why does TOT keep mixing his units of measure??) would not lose control of his heli and crash. Or perhaps TOT frets that a less-experienced pilot as himself might fly an even shallower approach? Heh. I doubt it. Even student pilots like Hilico seem cognizant of stuff on the ground.
TOT did make one admission in his original post that I found telling. He mentioned that
"Exactly on the white line." Yes. Just like an aeroplane. As others in this thread have mentioned, the time to notice stuff like that is before you get there. But evidently TOT was too intent on flying his "airplane" approach to an airplane runway to be concerned with whether he should have altered his approach path or angle.
Hover Bovver wondered:
Well mate, once you slow back below ETL you are at an OGE hover, and you do that well before getting to the helideck. I guess you've never flown a 206L-3 or 407 in the Gulf of Mexico. Ask any of the pilots who have done it on a calm summer day. They'll tell you. Then you tell Old Man Rotor and Crab. They seem in real need of an education.
Like I've said from the beginning, chaps: We helicopter pilots have to think a lot more than our plankmates. Speaking in extremes, as some of you gleefully do, only makes you out to be a fool. The *only* thing I say is that I prefer a steep approach to a shallow one, especially when there are conditions that favor one (e.g. chicken coops under the approach path) and I have the option to do so.
Some of you guys are just such twits!
I agree with you that at this stage of the game I probably should not go along on ferry/delivery/personal flights with inexperienced pilots in which I was not PIC or even SIC. If I had my way I wouldn't. But in the two cases I described, I *had* to go. I mentioned that both flights were done as personal favors. Unfortunately, it was not as a favor to the new owners. Long story, and quite irrelevant. But I take your points, and do not fundamentally disagree.
Let me just say that the very few examples that I posted were but a mere snippet of the "complaints" I had about these two chaps' flying. I'm quite dismayed at what the American FAA will accept as "good enough" for a rating these days. Then again, I guess you can't legislate judgement.
To all of you: Let's keep in mind that we are talking about single-engine helis here, not twins, okay? In his original post in this thread, TOT said he was in a two-seater. By that we can assume that his procedures were guided by single-engine considerations.
Crab: What I was getting at was this: Each of the approach scenarios I posted were realistic examples of situations I have found myself in numerous times as a commercial pilot in single-engine helicopters. In each of them, I found myself having to perform steep approaches that caused me to be within the shaded area of the H-V to varying degrees. Given your adamant objection to such operations, I merely wondered what YOU would do faced with similar conditions?
Old Man Rotor: It's not that I *don't* know how to make a single-engine approach to an oil rig. In singles, we come in steeper rather than shallow. This allows us to better judge our rates of closure and descent. It allows us to load-up the rotor early. Finally and probably most important, a steeper approach lessens the chance of having to flare to kill off any excess forward speed, however small. On an oil platform or rig, your visual cues may be extremely limited, especially if the helideck is small (they always are) and is the highest thing on the platform. Even making a "small" nose-up pitch attitude adjustment may cause the tail to strike the helideck or catch-fence.
Additionally, a steeper approach offers you more of a window to turn away from the platform/rig in the event of an engine failure on short-final. A shallow approach is dangerous from that aspect.
OMR, your ignorance of these techniques is probably due merely to your inexperience with such operations. Please do not feel bad. With more flight time and exposure, these weaknesses can be addressed and corrected. (Oh, but feel free to add a "surgeon general's" warning as a postscript to any of my posts. That should make you appear nice and mature.
That BlenderPilot gets it:
If during an approach to most any decent airport in the world . . . . . . you fly low enough to be within reach of a hat THROWN BY A FARMER,
YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING VERY WRONG.
P E R I O D
YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING VERY WRONG.
P E R I O D
TOT did make one admission in his original post that I found telling. He mentioned that
...we were on very short final for the 31 threshold, I estimate 100 metres to run and approx 75 AGL, we were EXACTLY on the white line, I noticed some small "chicken coups" in a paddock immediatley below...
Hover Bovver wondered:
I am very interested however, in how the single engined helicopters that PF1 has mentioned could go into an OGE hover with 6 PAX into a rig.
Like I've said from the beginning, chaps: We helicopter pilots have to think a lot more than our plankmates. Speaking in extremes, as some of you gleefully do, only makes you out to be a fool. The *only* thing I say is that I prefer a steep approach to a shallow one, especially when there are conditions that favor one (e.g. chicken coops under the approach path) and I have the option to do so.
Some of you guys are just such twits!
Who is the Fool....the Fool or the man arguing with the Fool ?
39 posts later....uncountable paragraphs, insults, whines, snivels.......can you imagine sharing a cockpit with this guy for more than a few minutes? I would be sticking my head out the window trying to make my lips flap like a hound dogs rather than listen to him prattle on. What a smashing evening he must be in the pub on a layover......crikey....bet a bunch of his colleagues order room service!
PruneFan....you really must be taking the mickey here.....the CAA shrinks would be after you with large butterfly nets otherwise! The dufus probably has trouser clips in his flight bag wears a blue and orange nylon duffle coat on his days off....and drives a three wheeled Cushman kinda car to the market.
Tell all the nice people "Good night !" PF.
39 posts later....uncountable paragraphs, insults, whines, snivels.......can you imagine sharing a cockpit with this guy for more than a few minutes? I would be sticking my head out the window trying to make my lips flap like a hound dogs rather than listen to him prattle on. What a smashing evening he must be in the pub on a layover......crikey....bet a bunch of his colleagues order room service!
PruneFan....you really must be taking the mickey here.....the CAA shrinks would be after you with large butterfly nets otherwise! The dufus probably has trouser clips in his flight bag wears a blue and orange nylon duffle coat on his days off....and drives a three wheeled Cushman kinda car to the market.
Tell all the nice people "Good night !" PF.
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the missile could have been fired at the helicopter!!!
no such luck,
why do the approach to the threshold anyway, fly neighbourly!!
to that crab person, vortex ring state during a normal or steep approach into wind???? get real.
i'm with you ringer.(wiz).
i dropped my mobile from a 47 a few years back, one of those heavy old kind of mobiles. i got a call from a lady later that day, her husband was going to get the eggs when said phone plummeted through coup roof and took out a couple of chooks. she was nice about it. phone was ******ed.
no such luck,
why do the approach to the threshold anyway, fly neighbourly!!
to that crab person, vortex ring state during a normal or steep approach into wind???? get real.
i'm with you ringer.(wiz).
i dropped my mobile from a 47 a few years back, one of those heavy old kind of mobiles. i got a call from a lady later that day, her husband was going to get the eggs when said phone plummeted through coup roof and took out a couple of chooks. she was nice about it. phone was ******ed.
imabell wondered:
True. But sometimes the tower asks us to make our approach to the threshold. This is what TOT says he was asked to do, as a sort of interim hold point before crossing the active runway to his final destination. And evidently TOT flew that approach so that the heels of his skids would be just at the start of the pavement.
Heliport politely asked TOT to state which airport this was at. But TOT probably won't divulge the location, as people who are familiar with the particular field will note that "...those chicken coops are half a kilometre from the threshold!" or something like that.
Here's another reason I prefer steep approaches. If you use a shallow approach, the entire area underneath you better be suitable for a forced landing, because if the engine quits at any point in the approach, down you go right where you are. While staying higher and utilizing a steep approach will not guarantee that you will always hit your LZ of the donk quits, it gives you a better chance of choosing a good site.
Not only this, but a steeper approach means that there is less of a transition between powered flight and autorotative flight. All you have to do is drop the collective - no cyclic pitch attitude adjustment necessary. This is not true of a shallow approach, where you might have both the nose and the collective up.
Of course, a steep/slow approach is a different kettle of fish. Depending on exactly how slow you are when the engine quits, you might have to lower the nose slightly, and there might not be much flare available. But even at 100 feet, as long as you're above ETL (20-30 kts) things should work out okay in *most* helos.
I don't think anybody in their right mind would advocate making steep approaches below ETL unless it was absolutely necessary due to terrain or obstruction considerations.
It is true that a steeper/faster approach (say, holding 45 kts all the way down) will require some sort of flare at the bottom, which many pilots seem to think is immoral and should be illegal. But airplane pilots seem to acquire the knack of flaring as they land, so I doubt helo pilots should have too much trouble with the procedure, as long as it is understood that you shouldn't flare too low, and the approach may very well terminate to the ground if the power is not there and you plan for that eventuality (as I do with all of my approaches). Hovering is never guaranteed.
The point is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Using the same approach type for every landing is the mark of a real amateur. The guys in here who have been beating me up know this intuitively and do it without thinking. Crab talks about his "curved," shallow, fast approaches, but I'll bet that he doesn't use those all the time.
And that's the trouble with helicopter flying - it's hard to verbalize what we do sometimes. Oh, you can spout procedures till you're blue in the face. But no book can tell you exactly which parameters of approach path, descent angle, airspeed and power you must use at every landing site. That only comes with experience because there are too many variables out there.
Not only that, no two pilots are exactly alike. Blender Pilot humourously related how he was always too fast, too slow, too shallow or too steep...there didn't seem to be any consistency from one instructor to another. And there isn't. Perhaps that's why we like helicopter flying, because it's so "seat of the pants"...your pants.
If you've been following this thread...and many of you must be, judging by the number of views it's received...you'll know that there are a whole bunch of pompous windbags out there - those whose egos far outstrip their ability. They try to pass themselves off as such experts, but in reality they're not. If someone comes into this forum with a dissenting viewpoint, they are labeled a "wind-up merchant" and summarily dismissed. Old Man Rotor? What a piece of work! There are a few others here who seem equally gassy and should take a major chill pill (as my kids say).
Even the true authorities of helicopter flight: Nick Lappos and Shawn Coyle...just how much actual civilian commercial experience in single-engine ships do they have? I mean, let's keep things in perspective. It's all very well and good to be a venerated Test Pilot (and in Nick's case, t.v. star and in Shawn's case, author). Not to take anything away from them. Both Shawn and Nick have extensive military backgrounds which no doubt add tremendous value to their positions and perspectives.
But it's another thing entirely to be one of the guys out "in the trenches," making those night scene landings in their EMS birds...or having to go find some dickweed's house in the country which he swears has enough room to land a helicopter (which he does, just barely...and then he shows up with eleven people when he told you on the phone that only two would be going...or flying repetitive tours in Hawaii or the Grand Canyon in an Astar.
Sure, line pilots don't get much glory (on this board, at least). But they're the ones who end up learning how to fly helicopters in the real world - not the relatively controlled world of Flight Test.
Real helicopter pilots know that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with a steep approach - as long as it's done safely. We do them all the time. But there is something wrong with shallow approaches, especially when there are people/chickens/obstructions underneath you. I still believe that old TOT was much shallower than he tried to make us all believe when that farmer tried to take him out with that "missile." Hey, maybe I'm wrong.
Alright, that'll be enough for today, PF#1. Time to take your meds and let someone else have a crack. You can post again tomorrow - IF we let you. - The Mods
why do the approach to the threshold anyway, fly neighbourly!!
Heliport politely asked TOT to state which airport this was at. But TOT probably won't divulge the location, as people who are familiar with the particular field will note that "...those chicken coops are half a kilometre from the threshold!" or something like that.
Here's another reason I prefer steep approaches. If you use a shallow approach, the entire area underneath you better be suitable for a forced landing, because if the engine quits at any point in the approach, down you go right where you are. While staying higher and utilizing a steep approach will not guarantee that you will always hit your LZ of the donk quits, it gives you a better chance of choosing a good site.
Not only this, but a steeper approach means that there is less of a transition between powered flight and autorotative flight. All you have to do is drop the collective - no cyclic pitch attitude adjustment necessary. This is not true of a shallow approach, where you might have both the nose and the collective up.
Of course, a steep/slow approach is a different kettle of fish. Depending on exactly how slow you are when the engine quits, you might have to lower the nose slightly, and there might not be much flare available. But even at 100 feet, as long as you're above ETL (20-30 kts) things should work out okay in *most* helos.
I don't think anybody in their right mind would advocate making steep approaches below ETL unless it was absolutely necessary due to terrain or obstruction considerations.
It is true that a steeper/faster approach (say, holding 45 kts all the way down) will require some sort of flare at the bottom, which many pilots seem to think is immoral and should be illegal. But airplane pilots seem to acquire the knack of flaring as they land, so I doubt helo pilots should have too much trouble with the procedure, as long as it is understood that you shouldn't flare too low, and the approach may very well terminate to the ground if the power is not there and you plan for that eventuality (as I do with all of my approaches). Hovering is never guaranteed.
The point is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Using the same approach type for every landing is the mark of a real amateur. The guys in here who have been beating me up know this intuitively and do it without thinking. Crab talks about his "curved," shallow, fast approaches, but I'll bet that he doesn't use those all the time.
And that's the trouble with helicopter flying - it's hard to verbalize what we do sometimes. Oh, you can spout procedures till you're blue in the face. But no book can tell you exactly which parameters of approach path, descent angle, airspeed and power you must use at every landing site. That only comes with experience because there are too many variables out there.
Not only that, no two pilots are exactly alike. Blender Pilot humourously related how he was always too fast, too slow, too shallow or too steep...there didn't seem to be any consistency from one instructor to another. And there isn't. Perhaps that's why we like helicopter flying, because it's so "seat of the pants"...your pants.
If you've been following this thread...and many of you must be, judging by the number of views it's received...you'll know that there are a whole bunch of pompous windbags out there - those whose egos far outstrip their ability. They try to pass themselves off as such experts, but in reality they're not. If someone comes into this forum with a dissenting viewpoint, they are labeled a "wind-up merchant" and summarily dismissed. Old Man Rotor? What a piece of work! There are a few others here who seem equally gassy and should take a major chill pill (as my kids say).
Even the true authorities of helicopter flight: Nick Lappos and Shawn Coyle...just how much actual civilian commercial experience in single-engine ships do they have? I mean, let's keep things in perspective. It's all very well and good to be a venerated Test Pilot (and in Nick's case, t.v. star and in Shawn's case, author). Not to take anything away from them. Both Shawn and Nick have extensive military backgrounds which no doubt add tremendous value to their positions and perspectives.
But it's another thing entirely to be one of the guys out "in the trenches," making those night scene landings in their EMS birds...or having to go find some dickweed's house in the country which he swears has enough room to land a helicopter (which he does, just barely...and then he shows up with eleven people when he told you on the phone that only two would be going...or flying repetitive tours in Hawaii or the Grand Canyon in an Astar.
Sure, line pilots don't get much glory (on this board, at least). But they're the ones who end up learning how to fly helicopters in the real world - not the relatively controlled world of Flight Test.
Real helicopter pilots know that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with a steep approach - as long as it's done safely. We do them all the time. But there is something wrong with shallow approaches, especially when there are people/chickens/obstructions underneath you. I still believe that old TOT was much shallower than he tried to make us all believe when that farmer tried to take him out with that "missile." Hey, maybe I'm wrong.
Alright, that'll be enough for today, PF#1. Time to take your meds and let someone else have a crack. You can post again tomorrow - IF we let you. - The Mods
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Anyway, we're all arguing about a situation in which a farmer's hat was thrown in greeting to a passing helicopter.
PPF1 - I'll see your pussy hat and raise you ten tons of downwash (and maybe some bladeslap if you're lucky)!
PPF1 - I'll see your pussy hat and raise you ten tons of downwash (and maybe some bladeslap if you're lucky)!
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Im so very confused, in my country people throw their hats up when they are excited, usually at graduations or similar events. I get the impression this farmer was just so happy to finally see a helicopter flying over his coops instead of the usual commercial jet.
Strange....I've shut down the engine but I can still hear a loud whining.................Ah - must have PPF#1 on intercom.
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PF1, you still didn't answer Hover Bovver. I've been flying in the Gulf of Mexico for more than 20 years, most of that single-engine, & I can't recall ever flying one that could take off with 6 offshore hands, much less hover OGE. Going out any distance, 4 is the norm, 5 maybe, but it has to be very, very close. A 206B normally will carry no more than 2, if that. And you said 7, as in "with half a dozen other fare-paying passengers". There aren't that many seats, much less the available payload & baggage capacity. If the pax are service hands, I used to fill at least 2 seats with baggage in a 206L3. I don't think you've been doing all that much offshore flying.
I do make my approaches on the steep side, and rather slow, since at night with light loads in an S76A++ there are lots of things that are more likely to bite me than an engine failure. But you're obviously just trolling, and I don't know why I even rose to the bait, except that maybe I'm a little cranky at 3AM after a long night.
I do make my approaches on the steep side, and rather slow, since at night with light loads in an S76A++ there are lots of things that are more likely to bite me than an engine failure. But you're obviously just trolling, and I don't know why I even rose to the bait, except that maybe I'm a little cranky at 3AM after a long night.
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Heliport.....
I said it in private.....no answer?
Now I will say it in public........this dork is a stirrer....a non professional unemployed stirrer.
Don't let the baby go down with the bath water............
This idiot has insulted, wasted time and space, swore, and generally been everything we wish our industry not to be.
Not to mention, liar, inaccurate, manipulatively provocative and generally a whinging POM.
His/her use by date was yesterday.
Fix it please.
Well half a POM.....
Now I will say it in public........this dork is a stirrer....a non professional unemployed stirrer.
Don't let the baby go down with the bath water............
This idiot has insulted, wasted time and space, swore, and generally been everything we wish our industry not to be.
Not to mention, liar, inaccurate, manipulatively provocative and generally a whinging POM.
His/her use by date was yesterday.
Fix it please.
Well half a POM.....
Iconoclast
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Approach angle-no choice and turkeys not chickens.
In some cases there is no choice in the angle of approach. Many moons ago I was crewing an HTL-1 (early B-47) and we were returning to base from an icebreaker in Lake Superior. Our tail rotor gearbox was leaking so we landed every fifty to sixty miles to replenish the oil. I had the can of oil between my knees and I was reading the sector map. The pilot spotted a bear and told me to take a look. In moving to look I lost my grip on the can of oil and it hit the deck with a bang. The pilot thought the gearbox had let go and he started to look for a place to land. In maneuvering the rotor shaft flexed and caused the gears to growl in the transmission (this was normal). This new noise exacerbated the situation and the pilot now wanted to get on the ground as fast as possible and in doing so flew directly over a turkey farm at about 200 feet.
Turkeys being very dumb animals stampeded to the far end of their pen and many lost their lives in the crush. The pilot turned to the wind and in landing in front of a house he took out the telephone line. The owner of the turkeys and the telephone line was a veterinarian and he didn’t throw anything at us. In fact he invited us in for coffee.
Turkeys being very dumb animals stampeded to the far end of their pen and many lost their lives in the crush. The pilot turned to the wind and in landing in front of a house he took out the telephone line. The owner of the turkeys and the telephone line was a veterinarian and he didn’t throw anything at us. In fact he invited us in for coffee.
Old Man: he's succeeded in winching you in, hasn't he. For goodness sake can't you see it coming. Lie down, on a deserted beach and let the water gently wash over you.
Relax and watch for the next salvo.....................
Relax and watch for the next salvo.....................
GLSNightPilot whined:
Well aren't you just the last word in Gulf Of Mexico flying! I prostrate myself at your infinite and definitive knowledge. Oh wait...oops! I guess you and Hover Bovver (Hover Bovver...what the hell???) never flew or heard of the 206L-4 then. Mine weighed 2770 and had an AUW of 4450.
My platform was 16 minutes from the beach, was big enough that the blades did not overhang (50' X 70'), and had fuel on it. Going out, I could leave Sabine Pass on crew-change day with 250 pounds of fuel. You do the math, if you're not too cranky or tired.
Well of course not! A 206B only has five seats, silly. With your extensive single-engine experience, I thought you'd know that...
Probably not, compared to your extensive single-engine experience. I'm a skinny runt (170#). My guys were platform hands who didn't take much (if anything) back and forth each week. There was usually our welder's helper (a young, light kid), a skinny galleyhand, and one of the hitches had two women working on it. The rest of the guys were big but not apes. They knew we had to make three trips and knew how to split the loads so I never had to take more than about 1150 either way. Maybe we couldn't take six on every trip, but we could on some. But yeah, you're right, I don't know what I'm talking about. I might not have done it for very long, so I guess I don't have any offshore experience. Nope!
What a putz. You were saying? Oh yeah.
Would you make shallow approaches in an old A-model? What sort of approach does your company recommend for singles? Mine recommended steep, slow, stabilized approaches where just about all the power was pulled in by 200' and you just sort of crept down the rest of the way.
Well go back to sleep then. With posts like that one, I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you stayed in your usual unconscious state.
Oh, but just a couple of other questions before you get back to nappies: You say that you've been flying in the Gulf Of Mexico for over twenty years, and most of that time has been in singles. That's very impressive! How is it then that you did not know about the L-4? Does your company not operate any? And what year did you get checked out in multis? Have you flown any other twin-engine aircraft than the S-76?
See folks, this is the reason I have so little patience with the so-called "experts" on this forum. They're so quick to jump to conclusions about which they know (evidently, in the case of GLSNightPilot) nothing or very little. They make definitive and authoritative statements like "You cannot fly offshore with seven people in a helicopter" or "helicopter pilots don't like steep approaches." And it just makes them sound so...so...I don't know...immature? Inexperienced? Stupid?
It's a big industry out there, with all sorts of people doing all sorts of things with helicopters. And with very few exception, every helicopter pilot I've ever met thought he was God's gift to aviation...the absolute authority on How To Fly...pompous twits, every one. Those who post regularly on this board are the obvious examples of a circle-jerk gone horribly wrong.
Careful, PF#1, the ice underneath you is razor thin...
I'm not a youngster anymore. With a wallet full of ratings, a logbook full of zeros and more years in this business than I care to count, I sometimes wonder how I ever made it this far without killing myself? Must be doing something right, eh what? But today I can actually see the time when I'll stop flying commercially. Meanwhile, I just do the best I can. And that includes flying in such a way that I don't have to worry about any farmers taking me out with their ballistic caps.
Kids, take whatever you read on this forum with a HUGE grain of salt. With the exception of Shawn and Nick, most of these guys don't have a clue as to what they're talking about (e.g. that sleepy, cranky night pilot from GLS).
Including me.
Except when you're in *my* aircraft. Then you better do it *MY* way.
Until I'm in *your* aircraft. Then we do it *YOUR* way.
Horses for courses...
PF1, you still didn't answer Hover Bovver. I've been flying in the Gulf of Mexico for more than 20 years, most of that single-engine, & I can't recall ever flying one that could take off with 6 offshore hands, much less hover OGE.
Going out any distance, 4 is the norm, 5 maybe, but it has to be very, very close.
A 206B normally will carry no more than 2, if that. And you said 7, as in "with half a dozen other fare-paying passengers". There aren't that many seats, much less the available payload & baggage capacity.
If the pax are service hands, I used to fill at least 2 seats with baggage in a 206L3. I don't think you've been doing all that much offshore flying.
What a putz. You were saying? Oh yeah.
I do make my approaches on the steep side, and rather slow, since at night with light loads in an S76A++ there are lots of things that are more likely to bite me than an engine failure.
But you're obviously just trolling, and I don't know why I even rose to the bait, except that maybe I'm a little cranky at 3AM after a long night.
Oh, but just a couple of other questions before you get back to nappies: You say that you've been flying in the Gulf Of Mexico for over twenty years, and most of that time has been in singles. That's very impressive! How is it then that you did not know about the L-4? Does your company not operate any? And what year did you get checked out in multis? Have you flown any other twin-engine aircraft than the S-76?
See folks, this is the reason I have so little patience with the so-called "experts" on this forum. They're so quick to jump to conclusions about which they know (evidently, in the case of GLSNightPilot) nothing or very little. They make definitive and authoritative statements like "You cannot fly offshore with seven people in a helicopter" or "helicopter pilots don't like steep approaches." And it just makes them sound so...so...I don't know...immature? Inexperienced? Stupid?
It's a big industry out there, with all sorts of people doing all sorts of things with helicopters. And with very few exception, every helicopter pilot I've ever met thought he was God's gift to aviation...the absolute authority on How To Fly...pompous twits, every one. Those who post regularly on this board are the obvious examples of a circle-jerk gone horribly wrong.
Careful, PF#1, the ice underneath you is razor thin...
I'm not a youngster anymore. With a wallet full of ratings, a logbook full of zeros and more years in this business than I care to count, I sometimes wonder how I ever made it this far without killing myself? Must be doing something right, eh what? But today I can actually see the time when I'll stop flying commercially. Meanwhile, I just do the best I can. And that includes flying in such a way that I don't have to worry about any farmers taking me out with their ballistic caps.
Kids, take whatever you read on this forum with a HUGE grain of salt. With the exception of Shawn and Nick, most of these guys don't have a clue as to what they're talking about (e.g. that sleepy, cranky night pilot from GLS).
Including me.
Except when you're in *my* aircraft. Then you better do it *MY* way.
Until I'm in *your* aircraft. Then we do it *YOUR* way.
Horses for courses...
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Tom............
Yes, I think we all know the type....
My real concern is that inaccurate, uncorrected information can and does turn into "fact"....and could be taken up by people looking for answers.
I would not like to see that happening here. Normally here on Prune, when someone asks a question or makes a statement they are normally made aware of the answer, or their statement is corrected by folk with an educational bend or technical knowledge.
But we all understand that Wrinkly Prune, just wishes to challenge all, and in doing so someone may just listen to one of his/her ramblings and confuse that with fact.
He / she does open up some interesting aspects that does deserve better dialogue......
But its just not worth it.....I would rather lay in the sun.
My real concern is that inaccurate, uncorrected information can and does turn into "fact"....and could be taken up by people looking for answers.
I would not like to see that happening here. Normally here on Prune, when someone asks a question or makes a statement they are normally made aware of the answer, or their statement is corrected by folk with an educational bend or technical knowledge.
But we all understand that Wrinkly Prune, just wishes to challenge all, and in doing so someone may just listen to one of his/her ramblings and confuse that with fact.
He / she does open up some interesting aspects that does deserve better dialogue......
But its just not worth it.....I would rather lay in the sun.
Last edited by Old Man Rotor; 7th May 2003 at 06:49.
Oops! Almost missed this...
Old Man Rotor:
Hmm........private message to Heliport? Which you then decided to post publicly? And I take it that the "fix it" remark really meant "ban him"?
Old Man Rotor: "WAAAAH, WAAAAAAH! Mister Moderator, that mean old PPRUNEFAN is saying things I don't like. Censor him!! Censure him!! Ban him!!! Make him stop!!!
Have you tried threatening to hold your breath until you turned blue? What a childish little snot. God, you are such a baby. Did anybody ever tell you that? YOU, Old Man Rotor, are the "dork." I am not unemployed, nor am I a liar. However, I may be all of the other things you accused me of. Oh well.
In any event, sorry to say, the moderators will probably not ban me. Just look at the popularity of this thread. Webmasters like traffic. This board was pretty dead up until now. But this thread has people "talking" and, hopefully, thinking. It addresses relevant techniques applicable to all helicopter pilots.
Not only that, the moderators know that I'm right. I've never advocated doing anything dangerous. Quite the opposite, in fact. I always preach conservatism and safe flying. Heliport asked TOT to divulge the airport he wrote about, and guess what...no response! Just how far were those chicken coops from the end of the runway? Kind of makes you wonder, hmm?
Finally, even if I did get banned, the moderators know that people subscribing to certain ISP's get new IP addresses every time they log-on. All one need do is come up with a new screenname and voila!...back on PPRuNe. Easy as pie. Good-bye FlareDammit, hello PPRUNEFAN#1.
So I'd like to echo Thomas coupling's suggestion that you do go out and lie in the sun, OMR. In fact, take as long as you want.
Okay, PF#1 you are really trying our patience. We've taken a vote and YOU'RE BANNED! Take a hike. Hit the road. We don't need the likes of you around here. You need to be out of town by sundown, pard. Or else.
Old Man Rotor:
Heliport.....
I said it in private.....no answer?
Now I will say it in public........this dork is a stirrer....a non professional unemployed stirrer.
Don't let the baby go down with the bath water............
This idiot has insulted, wasted time and space, swore, and generally been everything we wish our industry not to be.
Not to mention, liar, inaccurate, manipulatively provocative and generally a whinging POM.
His/her use by date was yesterday.
Fix it please.
I said it in private.....no answer?
Now I will say it in public........this dork is a stirrer....a non professional unemployed stirrer.
Don't let the baby go down with the bath water............
This idiot has insulted, wasted time and space, swore, and generally been everything we wish our industry not to be.
Not to mention, liar, inaccurate, manipulatively provocative and generally a whinging POM.
His/her use by date was yesterday.
Fix it please.
Old Man Rotor: "WAAAAH, WAAAAAAH! Mister Moderator, that mean old PPRUNEFAN is saying things I don't like. Censor him!! Censure him!! Ban him!!! Make him stop!!!
Have you tried threatening to hold your breath until you turned blue? What a childish little snot. God, you are such a baby. Did anybody ever tell you that? YOU, Old Man Rotor, are the "dork." I am not unemployed, nor am I a liar. However, I may be all of the other things you accused me of. Oh well.
In any event, sorry to say, the moderators will probably not ban me. Just look at the popularity of this thread. Webmasters like traffic. This board was pretty dead up until now. But this thread has people "talking" and, hopefully, thinking. It addresses relevant techniques applicable to all helicopter pilots.
Not only that, the moderators know that I'm right. I've never advocated doing anything dangerous. Quite the opposite, in fact. I always preach conservatism and safe flying. Heliport asked TOT to divulge the airport he wrote about, and guess what...no response! Just how far were those chicken coops from the end of the runway? Kind of makes you wonder, hmm?
Finally, even if I did get banned, the moderators know that people subscribing to certain ISP's get new IP addresses every time they log-on. All one need do is come up with a new screenname and voila!...back on PPRuNe. Easy as pie. Good-bye FlareDammit, hello PPRUNEFAN#1.
So I'd like to echo Thomas coupling's suggestion that you do go out and lie in the sun, OMR. In fact, take as long as you want.
Okay, PF#1 you are really trying our patience. We've taken a vote and YOU'RE BANNED! Take a hike. Hit the road. We don't need the likes of you around here. You need to be out of town by sundown, pard. Or else.
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Tommy.............
ssssshhhh.......
You will be shot at dawn with such revelations.....
However one can't forget how silent and slow it was until Wrinkly Prawn came along................
Is Danny into cross dressing?
You will be shot at dawn with such revelations.....
However one can't forget how silent and slow it was until Wrinkly Prawn came along................
Is Danny into cross dressing?
