Caught the boss at it- What to do?
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S76Heavy:
That is the real problem here. How much does it already have over? Is it still safe (from a technical point of view...) or not. At the end you have to make your own risk assessment and decide.
On my first job it was similar. The machine was okay but a Bell 47 flies on half the parts anyway, the other one was: am I capable of the job - extremely low time - only 5 hours training after more than a year off - about 20 landings on the tunaboat, anchored in calm water (Today I train people about 15 -20 hours to go on a boat, and I get good feedback from those pilots....). I took the chance, because it was the only one around. The decision was hard, because besides my life, also the skippers was at stake, however he knew my situation and agreed to try it. Then out at sea (tuna bussines - anyway) there are different rules (there should not, but there are...): If a helicopter gets lost, it goes down - even if it would be salvageable. Once in saltwater, a rebuild is expensive. Sink it and let the insurance pay. So with some operators the helos are less then perfect. Thatīs why I donīt fly with that outfit anymore, but thanks to them I made it into making a living, flying helos.
I never said it is an easy decision - and you are all alone with it.
Lucky those who never have to decide...
3top
That is the real problem here. How much does it already have over? Is it still safe (from a technical point of view...) or not. At the end you have to make your own risk assessment and decide.
On my first job it was similar. The machine was okay but a Bell 47 flies on half the parts anyway, the other one was: am I capable of the job - extremely low time - only 5 hours training after more than a year off - about 20 landings on the tunaboat, anchored in calm water (Today I train people about 15 -20 hours to go on a boat, and I get good feedback from those pilots....). I took the chance, because it was the only one around. The decision was hard, because besides my life, also the skippers was at stake, however he knew my situation and agreed to try it. Then out at sea (tuna bussines - anyway) there are different rules (there should not, but there are...): If a helicopter gets lost, it goes down - even if it would be salvageable. Once in saltwater, a rebuild is expensive. Sink it and let the insurance pay. So with some operators the helos are less then perfect. Thatīs why I donīt fly with that outfit anymore, but thanks to them I made it into making a living, flying helos.
I never said it is an easy decision - and you are all alone with it.
Lucky those who never have to decide...
3top
SASless you know as well as I do that an 1179 is nowhere near as demanding as the check rides that operational military pilots have to go through - an 1179 is a basic General Handling test and that is all. The other point to make is time - a mil pilot has a certain time allocated to learn the skills, if he can't hack it in the time available he finds another job. A civilian can keep on throwing money and hours at it until he passes the check because most of what he will want to do with a helo doesn't need much more than basic GH skills anyway. The military pilot has to learn to use the helo as a weapon and operate in all extremes of weather, day or night whilst continuously making tactical decisions and maintaining SA. I know most civilian helo pilots won't agree with what I have said but I think most mil pilots will. This is a generalisation of course and there are excellent civ pilots and not so great mil pilots but on the whole the statement is true.
Taking cover again - Randy G has already taken umbrage on a different thread!!
Taking cover again - Randy G has already taken umbrage on a different thread!!
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Crab:
Well what do you want? You have already a go for it, and you still want unlimited trials?
That is the liberty a civilian stundent has,......IF he has the dough.
As you stated, most civilian pilots will never have to nor will they ever get a chance to do the military like stuff.
If you operate a civilian company and take on low time pilots for training you also will draw lines - you get it until then or out.
If civilian flying skills are less demanding than military, why should a 1179 (I guess that`s the same as a FAA-checkride....) be as tough as a military check?
Besides if you fail your civilian checkrides often enough (one time is okay, the second it is already a month and problems for your instructor...) you will have lengthy waiting periods to apply again. You still need an instructor to sign off. If you fail, it will reflect very negative on him, as he said the student is okay....
You are comparing two different things - at a level where there is no comparison.
3top
Well what do you want? You have already a go for it, and you still want unlimited trials?
That is the liberty a civilian stundent has,......IF he has the dough.
As you stated, most civilian pilots will never have to nor will they ever get a chance to do the military like stuff.
If you operate a civilian company and take on low time pilots for training you also will draw lines - you get it until then or out.
If civilian flying skills are less demanding than military, why should a 1179 (I guess that`s the same as a FAA-checkride....) be as tough as a military check?
Besides if you fail your civilian checkrides often enough (one time is okay, the second it is already a month and problems for your instructor...) you will have lengthy waiting periods to apply again. You still need an instructor to sign off. If you fail, it will reflect very negative on him, as he said the student is okay....
You are comparing two different things - at a level where there is no comparison.
3top
These sort of shenanegan's do go on, everywhere, one must be living in cloud cuckoo land to think otherwise. But what concerns me is the individual who knowingly turns a blind eye to these situations. Not only do they put themselves at risk (so much for self preservation), but more importantly, they are exposing their friends, colleagues, innocent persons to the same risk. What sort of human being could allow this to continue???
Surely, conscience has a big part to play in all this. Look to yourself when you next purposefully choose to ignore a dodgy situation and ask yourself who are you kidding?
Pathetic - no excuses.
Move on ...sleep at night.
Surely, conscience has a big part to play in all this. Look to yourself when you next purposefully choose to ignore a dodgy situation and ask yourself who are you kidding?
Pathetic - no excuses.
Move on ...sleep at night.
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Easy talk, if you have a job and/or experience to start somewhere else right away.....
Besides you still have to be able to proof it!
3top
PS: CH6, no more comments? What is your way now? Talked ,changed company or what?
3top
Besides you still have to be able to proof it!
3top
PS: CH6, no more comments? What is your way now? Talked ,changed company or what?
3top
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I know nothing of the UK, but having undergone a fair number of military and civilian checkrides in the US, I have to say the civilian rides here, at least the Part 135 checkrides I've undergone, are at least as demanding as any military ride I ever had, & in many ways moreso. I've been with my current employer for over 20 years, & I still sweat the checkrides. If we go to the sim & are qualified in only one aircraft, it's a 4-day ordeal. If you have another aircraft, you add a day. Even if you're flying light aircraft VFR only, it's 2 days.
Most of the pilots I know are ex-military, & I'm pretty sure most of them would agree with me. We get a few ex-military pilots who just can't hack it. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that they're different, & emphasize different things.
Most of the pilots I know are ex-military, & I'm pretty sure most of them would agree with me. We get a few ex-military pilots who just can't hack it. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that they're different, & emphasize different things.
Put on yer Kevlar skivvies Crab! Incoming Freight! 1179's being a general handling test is correct as is the similar ride in the Mob. And just like the Mob, in civvie street, one takes a PIC ride that surpasses the 1179 ride in depth. The Mob has a different name for the various rides as do the civvies.....and each ride requires proper Situational Awareness....and just as in Military flying....each type of mission (if you will?) requires different qualities of airmanship in both civvie and military flying. I can honestly state it is my belief that as a Civvie Streeter, I have been more challenged in my flying than ever in the military with the one exception of being involved in some serious slanging matches with armed, hostile, and rather efficient "other Teams". I can assure you that some of the high altitude...high temperature construction work I have done in Iran surpasses any sling work ever done for the Military.....some night winching trips got pretty sporty as well.....and the real proof of the pudding is that on more than a few occasions we have had "hot shot" recently out of the Mob, pilots cause our insurance rates to skyrocket due to their absolute inability to cope with the situations they were confronted with. With the rare exception of combat flying....where the rules are chucked out the door....the great majority of military flying today is so structured and supervised that pilots rarely fly solo and darn sure never get to learn from that very tough course called "Knocks College" (the school of hard knocks) that permanently imprints instant recognition of bad habits. You scare yourself bad enough and your learning habits increase geometrically for a period of time.
All that being said.....the military is a very good place to start learning.....but it doesn't end with the graduation ceremony at flight school or your release from active service. Military training is very regimented....structured for the "average" performer....and atttempts to mold pilots into very standardized routines. That works for the military however in the outside world, the environment is not standardized, standard, or under control of all the parties involved.....thus cookie cutter pilots fall short of the mark.
All that being said.....the military is a very good place to start learning.....but it doesn't end with the graduation ceremony at flight school or your release from active service. Military training is very regimented....structured for the "average" performer....and atttempts to mold pilots into very standardized routines. That works for the military however in the outside world, the environment is not standardized, standard, or under control of all the parties involved.....thus cookie cutter pilots fall short of the mark.
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Caught the boss at it- What to do?
Yo Guys and Lassies,
Hate to detract from the het up convo going on here, but has this got anythhing to do with the original thread
I know it is boring of me to say it, but start a new thread if it is that important (ohhhhh moderator are you there.......????)
It is a great and wonderful subject, but what the **** has it to do with the original thread (Repeat statement)
LS
Hate to detract from the het up convo going on here, but has this got anythhing to do with the original thread
I know it is boring of me to say it, but start a new thread if it is that important (ohhhhh moderator are you there.......????)
It is a great and wonderful subject, but what the **** has it to do with the original thread
(Repeat statement)LS
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..... what the **** has it to do with the original thread?
Not a lot, but the original question was answered fully and helpfully, and then faded naturally ..... so what the **** does it matter?
Not a lot, but the original question was answered fully and helpfully, and then faded naturally ..... so what the **** does it matter?
Good on yer Mate! That's ****ing telling him where the cow ate the cabbage! The least he could do is contribute to the conversation....Heliport does shoot true at times! Got the scars to prove it too!
