HAA Ec135 accident in NC all survived 10th March 2023
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HAA Ec135 accident in NC all survived 10th March 2023
Last edited by havoc; 10th Mar 2023 at 23:13. Reason: Date added
First Accident for Erlanger in its 34 Year history.
https://www.ems1.com/air-medical-tra...xfvk3VyJvm2RO/
Night....forested and mountainous area....if it was a forced landing as reported then the Pilot should be congratulated upon the outcome.
Finding a road in that area was tough as there are not many of them to be found and are narrow, crooked, and lined by tall trees....with very little vehicular traffic showing lights to be seen.
https://www.ems1.com/air-medical-tra...xfvk3VyJvm2RO/
Night....forested and mountainous area....if it was a forced landing as reported then the Pilot should be congratulated upon the outcome.
Finding a road in that area was tough as there are not many of them to be found and are narrow, crooked, and lined by tall trees....with very little vehicular traffic showing lights to be seen.
Last edited by SASless; 11th Mar 2023 at 13:37.
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Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Daytime pics & report... https://tinyurl.com/37t2cynj
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/309060
The EC-135 medical transportation helicopter with four people on board went down about 7 p.m. along Middle Burningtown Road in Macon County.
Macon County 911 Communications Supervisor Todd Seagle said a call declaring an emergency came in about 7 p.m., and, moments after the call ended, the helicopter went down.
Seagle said Thursday night the patient and two crew members were taken to Mission. The pilot was not transported. Erlanger Health System president and CEO Jim Coleman said Friday one crew member had been evaluated and released and two others on board were admitted to Mission Health.Officials said Thursday that LIFE FORCE 6 was transporting a patient from a medical facility in Murphy to Mission Hospital in Asheville when it crashed.
Macon County 911 Communications Supervisor Todd Seagle said a call declaring an emergency came in about 7 p.m., and, moments after the call ended, the helicopter went down.
Seagle said Thursday night the patient and two crew members were taken to Mission. The pilot was not transported. Erlanger Health System president and CEO Jim Coleman said Friday one crew member had been evaluated and released and two others on board were admitted to Mission Health.Officials said Thursday that LIFE FORCE 6 was transporting a patient from a medical facility in Murphy to Mission Hospital in Asheville when it crashed.
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/309060
Having been through the MedTrans contract training program in the 135, I can honestly say the training was outstanding and some of the best I have ever undertaken. There was no scraping by, you had to perform and know your numbers. The IPs would not suffer mediocre and some folk couldn't make it through and were returned to their owners !
That has come down at a lot of G's to spread the skids and push the belly up like that. Kudos to the pilot for making such a great forced landing!!!!!!!!!!
Shows you how crash worthy those Airbus 135 airframe pods are. Glad all survived.
Just looking those blades are rigid enough not to come down into the escaping crew & pilots, and not create a hazard for exiting. Nice!
Shows you how crash worthy those Airbus 135 airframe pods are. Glad all survived.
Just looking those blades are rigid enough not to come down into the escaping crew & pilots, and not create a hazard for exiting. Nice!
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First Accident for Erlanger in its 34 Year history.
https://www.ems1.com/air-medical-tra...xfvk3VyJvm2RO/
Night....forested and mountainous area....if it was a forced landing as reported then the Pilot should be congratulated upon the outcome.
https://www.ems1.com/air-medical-tra...xfvk3VyJvm2RO/
Night....forested and mountainous area....if it was a forced landing as reported then the Pilot should be congratulated upon the outcome.
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FH,
Seems a very harsh thing to say about a Pilot involved in an accident UNLESS you can provide some basis to feel free to say such a thing.
Exactly what do you base your comment upon.....as unless you have a provable source handy....you might find yourself liable for some repercussions.
What you describe might turn out to be the case.....but nothing seen in this Thread supports you allegation.
Care to elaborate on this?
Seems a very harsh thing to say about a Pilot involved in an accident UNLESS you can provide some basis to feel free to say such a thing.
Exactly what do you base your comment upon.....as unless you have a provable source handy....you might find yourself liable for some repercussions.
What you describe might turn out to be the case.....but nothing seen in this Thread supports you allegation.
Care to elaborate on this?
but nothing seen in this Thread supports you allegation.
Could the skids be just out of view of the photos.....as there have not been a lot of them posted (including the video).
The possibility it was CFIT cannot be discounted as it was dark, mountainous, scarce lighting from structures and vehicles, and perhaps the weather played a role.
But....nothing seen here supports a finite assertion of that as made by FH1100.
Burningtown Bald peak is 5125 feet MSL (or 5112 feet).....and the track of the aircraft shows passing all but over it....then it makes a turn to the south in the general direction of Franklin where there is a small airfield.
Burningtown Gap also in immediate vicinity of the turn is slightly lower by about 900 feet.
https://mapcarta.com/21262182
That could be significant depending upon the altitude the aircraft was maintaining at the time.
When you add Weather Radar Returns to the Flight Aware information....for both the flight outbound....then the return flight the accident occurred there does appear to be some weather that might have played a role.
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao...23-03-09&leg=8
The possibility it was CFIT cannot be discounted as it was dark, mountainous, scarce lighting from structures and vehicles, and perhaps the weather played a role.
But....nothing seen here supports a finite assertion of that as made by FH1100.
Burningtown Bald peak is 5125 feet MSL (or 5112 feet).....and the track of the aircraft shows passing all but over it....then it makes a turn to the south in the general direction of Franklin where there is a small airfield.
Burningtown Gap also in immediate vicinity of the turn is slightly lower by about 900 feet.
https://mapcarta.com/21262182
That could be significant depending upon the altitude the aircraft was maintaining at the time.
When you add Weather Radar Returns to the Flight Aware information....for both the flight outbound....then the return flight the accident occurred there does appear to be some weather that might have played a role.
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao...23-03-09&leg=8
Last edited by SASless; 14th Mar 2023 at 16:36.
The usual PPRUNE mantra of instantly admonishing anybody that dares to make a comment outside of the unwritten rules. This is why nobody dares to post here and it makes the site sterile. Discussion brings the lurkers into the conversation and this is the most valuable asset of this forum. I have learned more here over the years than from any other reference. So stop dissuading folk to make their point, even if it goes against your grain.
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Sir Korsky,
Where did the idea hitting the tree in CRUISE FLIGHT come from is my question.
Suggesting it may have been CFIT....is not far fetched and certainly a possibility.
The Macon County Sheriff saying the tail rotor hit a tree and caused the crash leaves out the part about when, where, and why the tail rotor hit the tree as I read it.
Clearly the photos and video do not how the skids but that is not proof positive the skids are not near by an in a logical place in the debris field.
Has there been any information made public that tells of the discovery and location of the skids and the components that would substantiate the matter?
At least VRS has not been claimed as the cause yet....but hang on....perhaps that will be among the causes offered as usual.
Do we know what the existing weather was at the time of the crash?
Was the Pilot using NVG's and all of the other kit onboard the aircraft?
Was the aircraft on an IFR or VFR Flight Plan"
Lots of questions remain unaddressed in what is known about this accident.
Perhaps FH100 can provide more than he did which would advance the discussion.
If you were the Pilot involved....would you like to accused of flying into the trees and cause an accident by doing so....with the available information contained in this Thread currently?
In time that might be exactly what happened.....why not give the guy a fair shake until the evidence is incontrovertible and proves that is what happened.
Where did the idea hitting the tree in CRUISE FLIGHT come from is my question.
Suggesting it may have been CFIT....is not far fetched and certainly a possibility.
The Macon County Sheriff saying the tail rotor hit a tree and caused the crash leaves out the part about when, where, and why the tail rotor hit the tree as I read it.
Clearly the photos and video do not how the skids but that is not proof positive the skids are not near by an in a logical place in the debris field.
Has there been any information made public that tells of the discovery and location of the skids and the components that would substantiate the matter?
At least VRS has not been claimed as the cause yet....but hang on....perhaps that will be among the causes offered as usual.
Do we know what the existing weather was at the time of the crash?
Was the Pilot using NVG's and all of the other kit onboard the aircraft?
Was the aircraft on an IFR or VFR Flight Plan"
Lots of questions remain unaddressed in what is known about this accident.
Perhaps FH100 can provide more than he did which would advance the discussion.
If you were the Pilot involved....would you like to accused of flying into the trees and cause an accident by doing so....with the available information contained in this Thread currently?
In time that might be exactly what happened.....why not give the guy a fair shake until the evidence is incontrovertible and proves that is what happened.
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Wasn't a personal assault SAS, it was a general statement. Too many people on this site are like salient beasts, waiting to jump on anybody who dares to break the code of conduct. It's generally disruptive to this platform and prevents fair comment being broadcast. PPrune would be a much more livelier place if folk weren't terrified of making a point or posting a thread. There has been a decline in the quality and quantity of posting over the years and I attribute it to the element of fear installed within the members and guests to speak up. There is a blend of highly experienced professionals and just interested parties that frequent this site. I'm interested in what everybody has to say, whether I agree or not.
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I did not take it personally.... and if I did I have a very thick skin as I have been a helicopter pilot for a very long time and understand what goes on in a Pilot's Crew Room and the Pub especially when they are one and the same!
If we all agreed it would mean at least one of us is not thinking.
We do not have to have all the pieces to see what thePicture Puzzle looks like but until we have enough of the pieces in place to rule out everything else then we should be careful about what the true picture looks like.
An example, we are told the Pilot declared an Emergency that caused him to make a Forced Landing....but we do not know what happened to cause that Emergency Call and the subsequent Forced Landing.
I suggest that is a both a logical question and a very important one.
Was there a Mechanical problem or was there a tree strike that caused the mechanical problem....as either could be the case.
I am sure the 135 Emergency Checklist has at least one "Land Immediately" EOP?
In the Thread about the UK Mod procurement for the Puma Replacement, John Dixson discussed the Emergency Landing made during the UTTAS fly off competition where the Blackhawk was landing into trees by the Test Pilots.....so those things do occur.
If we all agreed it would mean at least one of us is not thinking.
We do not have to have all the pieces to see what thePicture Puzzle looks like but until we have enough of the pieces in place to rule out everything else then we should be careful about what the true picture looks like.
An example, we are told the Pilot declared an Emergency that caused him to make a Forced Landing....but we do not know what happened to cause that Emergency Call and the subsequent Forced Landing.
I suggest that is a both a logical question and a very important one.
Was there a Mechanical problem or was there a tree strike that caused the mechanical problem....as either could be the case.
I am sure the 135 Emergency Checklist has at least one "Land Immediately" EOP?
In the Thread about the UK Mod procurement for the Puma Replacement, John Dixson discussed the Emergency Landing made during the UTTAS fly off competition where the Blackhawk was landing into trees by the Test Pilots.....so those things do occur.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
On first looking at the pictures, did anyone else think… fuel?
We learnt a lot from the past, but have we learnt everything?
Anyhoo, with a distress call being made, of course depending what that call contained, some things can possibly be ruled out.
We learnt a lot from the past, but have we learnt everything?
Anyhoo, with a distress call being made, of course depending what that call contained, some things can possibly be ruled out.
EC-135 Crash Worthiness
This discussion seems to have migrated from facts to speculation I am sure that the cause of this event will ultimately be determined. On the other hand having flown many variants of the EC-135 I am impressed with the EC-135’s crash worthiness and how this contributed to the survivability in this case. I hope others will provide some details of the EC-135 design specifics. One example that I am familiar with is the specific very robust design and testing of the EC-135 fuel system including the tank.
There have been a few quite violent accidents in EC135 where the main fuselage has done a good job of retaining sufficient integrity to keep the occupants alive. The designers thought about it in some regards - for example the fuel sensors have built in weak points so they break rather than penetrating the roof of the fuel cell during a hard landing. I would be a bit surprised if the skids got ripped off without leading to a terminal nose over for the aircraft. It seems very odd to damage the tail rotor in the cruise without damaging the rest of the aircraft. If he had no tail rotor he would almost certainly have rolled over. The aircraft looks very much like a straight vertical impact was the mechanism (it doesn't appear to have been stopped in forward motion by the trees for example). But you can see he still had a rotating head on impact. Compare it to the BK117 C2 that crashed from an inadvertent wrong engine shutdown. The blades were intact in that case as they were not turning on impact.
In other factual information, the local airport (Macon County) at 2000ft elevation was reporting overcast at 2000 ft. The crash site at around the 4000 ft point with sunset around 20 mins after the incident time (not factoring in terrain). Not a nice set of operating conditions.
In other factual information, the local airport (Macon County) at 2000ft elevation was reporting overcast at 2000 ft. The crash site at around the 4000 ft point with sunset around 20 mins after the incident time (not factoring in terrain). Not a nice set of operating conditions.
Known unknowns and all and purely conjecture - the cross tubes seem to be still underneath it and the fenestron blades all seem pretty straight so....................?
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911 Tapes re the crash.