Bell 206 long ranger down April 15 filming
Thread Starter
Bell 206 long ranger down April 15 filming
All four on board survived, some with broken bones, landing on roof. Filming a tourist video at Antigua Guatemala using nose mounted cineflex.
Cae helicóptero en Sacatepéquez
Helicopter Crashes in Antigua Guatemala | AntiguaDailyPhoto.Com
Mickjoebill
Cae helicóptero en Sacatepéquez
Helicopter Crashes in Antigua Guatemala | AntiguaDailyPhoto.Com
Mickjoebill
These guys were definitely at or close to AUM
Last edited by Gordy; 14th May 2012 at 04:34.
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Filming Accident
Not trying to start a dispute Gordy, This is just my recent experience on a movie shoot with a L4.
Aircraft weight 2561Lbs with Dart high skid gear, duals, survival kit etc.
Space cam, mounts and rear ballast 554lbs. Pilot+2 Movie guys all average 200lbs each. To remain below the 4450lbs on skids limit I was having to watch the gas being added. This was mostly due to the fact we had a tight LZ and 94*f in high humidity. This was just my scenario and it may not be in anyway relevant tothe Guatamala scenario.
Cineflex now make very compact high resolution cameras and hopefully for the pilot his W&B and 337 inspections were all in order. Gordy I may have posted without complete evaluation of the situation Earlier.I'm just used to the large Cineflex we mount to our A Stars with are heavier then the space cam. Also the fact there were 4 onboard.
Aircraft weight 2561Lbs with Dart high skid gear, duals, survival kit etc.
Space cam, mounts and rear ballast 554lbs. Pilot+2 Movie guys all average 200lbs each. To remain below the 4450lbs on skids limit I was having to watch the gas being added. This was mostly due to the fact we had a tight LZ and 94*f in high humidity. This was just my scenario and it may not be in anyway relevant tothe Guatamala scenario.
Cineflex now make very compact high resolution cameras and hopefully for the pilot his W&B and 337 inspections were all in order. Gordy I may have posted without complete evaluation of the situation Earlier.I'm just used to the large Cineflex we mount to our A Stars with are heavier then the space cam. Also the fact there were 4 onboard.
Last edited by hookes_joint; 14th May 2012 at 06:44.
Not trying to start a dispute Gordy, This is just my recent experience on a movie shoot with a L4.
I fly the L4 with TRACS and with the release of FMS 11, it gives us way more payload at altitude---staying within GW obviously.
Cineflex is about 80lbs on the nose, and about 150-170lbs of equipment in the mid seats. Down at sea-level you can go with 3pax and 200-300 lbs of fuel mostly on a L1, L3/L4 can to some 150lbs more. 3 person operation, director,camera operator and his assistance is very common in aerial filming.
As Gordy says, it seems that most calculations here are to MAUW IGE without considering the power margin needed to fly effectively and (relatively) safely at low level whilst filming. Cineflex weights are substantial, and I strongly suggest that anyone planning filming operations should plan their weights on mission start to be at least 200lb under MAUW on commencement of the filming. At least 200lb, if not more!
CASA permissions for low level ops have a number of restrictions, one of which is that "essential personnel only" are on board. That was an oft used response to the producers who wanted to load the aircraft with talking ballast, plus the addition that by putting their mates/girlfriends/etc onboard they would thus invalidate the insurance.
Worked every time
CASA permissions for low level ops have a number of restrictions, one of which is that "essential personnel only" are on board. That was an oft used response to the producers who wanted to load the aircraft with talking ballast, plus the addition that by putting their mates/girlfriends/etc onboard they would thus invalidate the insurance.
Worked every time
Last edited by John Eacott; 15th May 2012 at 00:22.
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how often have you had to reply to, "but you've got 6 seats, why can't you take 6 people?"
With the JR there are ALWAYS 5 essential people for the operation, and they haven't counted the pilot!!!
Any more than 2 pax, and it isn't a filming or photography operation anymore, it is simply a scenic ride, and someguy has a flash camera, now you are back to 500' and im not stopping, slow orbiting is the best you will get from me.
Always good when you've got a grumpy ol' chief pilot that will back you up, coz he doesnt want you to bend his machine...
With the JR there are ALWAYS 5 essential people for the operation, and they haven't counted the pilot!!!
Any more than 2 pax, and it isn't a filming or photography operation anymore, it is simply a scenic ride, and someguy has a flash camera, now you are back to 500' and im not stopping, slow orbiting is the best you will get from me.
Always good when you've got a grumpy ol' chief pilot that will back you up, coz he doesnt want you to bend his machine...
Thread Starter
Is it possible to define what I'll call "performance safety margins" in a way so a producer can compare different helicopter types? For instance, most producers don't understand that heavily loaded helicopters have reduced or no hover ability out of ground.
Would be great to have a performance risk matrix with data for each aircraft type commonly use in filming, to cross references the following;
min safe flying speed
OGH
payload weight (divided into fuel and passengers)
"performance margin"
Additions or comments?
Mickjoebill
Would be great to have a performance risk matrix with data for each aircraft type commonly use in filming, to cross references the following;
min safe flying speed
OGH
payload weight (divided into fuel and passengers)
"performance margin"
Additions or comments?
Mickjoebill
So he off loaded a little too much fuel for the added weight. Opps !
