Too heavy to fly?

[cormac]

Before all jump on the wagon I am a relative newbe but I have read loads of threads but havent found an answer to this over the last few weeks so I thought I would throw it into the lions den if I may. Im a 6ft 1 17st lad and am itching to get stuck into a ppl course but not sure what my options are, only in terms of the above. No one wants or needs another 'what are my options thread' The ever popular R22 I think is not an option so what are my other options (if any) Im ready for the jokes and comments so hit me with it, but this is a genuine plea so at least one sensible ans would be really appreciated.

Ps Ive now given up the local rugby club in exchange for some running mates in a bid to restructure

Cheers

[Flingingwings]

Yup you're too heavy for an R22.

Options are Hughes 269 or R44, the later being the more expensive option.

FW

[cormac]

Cheers for the confirmation

without getting into that dreaded and eternal thread. Do you happen to know who trains on these. Im London based

Thanks again

[cormac]

I know biggin hill did ( Ithink so anyway)but I think there gone, based on what Ive read here and my non ability to get in touch with them But again thats into another thread

[Cron]

Heliair - Denham for the '44.

Regards

Cron

[cormac]

Cheers Cron I would love to try the 44 (or any other) but dont think I could hold out to the cost over 45+++ hours Sorry should have mentioned this, showing my greeness now. But will look into it as it might not be as painful as I imagine

Thanks for taking the time

Cormac

[Ewe Turn]

Hi
I was in a similar position to you being 6'2" and 17 stone ie. Right on the limits for the R22 as per the POH.
Prior to my latest bought of training and JAR Class 1 I went on the caveman diet for six weeks. I dropped a stone and a half, my blood pressure went down to 130/65 from 140/85 and my cholestrol is now 4.3.
Weigh up the health benefits as well of the cost implications of loosing a few stone. Over a 45 hour PPL course you will save about £6k by shifting a bit of excess weight. It's a no brainer !!!
Cheers
ET

[VeeAny]

Depends where in London

300s are at Blackbushe and Biggin / Rochester with Cabair.

R44s at Redhill with LHC and EBG, Denham Heli Air, Elstree (I Think) Cabair, Damyns Hall Helicentre, and at Rotorvation Nr Brands.

And if they still train on it the Bell 47 at Alan Mann at Fairoaks (no idea of seat limit but I'd bet you are ok).

Next step up is Bell 206 and EC120 also at some of these locations.


GS

[Bravo73]

Cormac,

Off the top of my head, the following 'London' airfields and operators have S300s:

Biggin Hill Helicopters, out of Biggin Hill (funnily enough!) Not sure of their current status with regards to training though. A quick phone call to the airfield should be able to confirm this for you.

Cabair have recently bought 2 S300cbis. I think that one is based down in Rochester. However, they might be willing to reposition it to one of their other bases for you. They are based at Elstree, Denham, Blackbushe and Biggin (amongst others.) A phonecall to them will obviously confirm this. (I've just had a quick look at their website and it isn't initially obvious which bases cater for PPL(H) training.)

Helicopter Services (Wycombe Air Park) might be able to source an S300 for you for training. Once again, you'll need to phone to confirm.


HTH


Edited to add: Ah, just noticed that I've cross-posted with VNE.

[JimBall]

The R22 times from engine start to engine stop on an oil pressure switch. The R44 times from lever lift to lever down.

So - you get charged all way on autos in a 22. And you get charged for all that ground-run time whilst being instructed with the engine on but not flying.

Depending on how quickly you learn, the R44 isn't too much more expensive than a 22 - especially if you consider that (unless you lose weight) you're never going to be right for the 22. You would probably end up having to take a type rating for an R44 even if you got through the licence on a 22.

A reputable operator - as mentioned above - will give you a fair comparison because, in truth, they don't make more money from 44 training. The instructors cost the same - and the helis are normally on leaseback.

More and more are now doing their course on the 44.

[cormac]

Thanks all for your advice even though it is just a little weird having your weight discussed like this but I started it, and as everyone is now aware; I'm big enough to take it. Really useful comments on the 44 and worth looking into even alongside the caveman diet which I agree is definitely the best long term option. Hopefully the running will sort this out but this isnt Dear Deirdre so lets not go there. Im just really impatient and want to take to the skies now. I will look into all the above advice so thanks to all for taking the time and never let it be said that new starters queries are sidelined in this section

Cheers

[tinyjohnston]

I am around 6ft 8" and a weight to suit!!!

I did some of my training in a Schwizer 300Cbi and then moved to a R44.

The 300Cbi is a fab heli room wize, i even fely as if there was enough room in it for comfort!!!!

The R44 was really nice to fly and after flying the "sky tractor" it was really easy!!!!

The one thing that enabled me to fly the two aircrafts was a did an Faa Ppl(H) in which you can fly multiple helis.

I think flying the 300Cbi has made me a better pilot as its so basic, and then as a result the R44 is so refined to fly.

Dont let your size put you off or stop you flying.....

Tiny

[Banjo24]

Hi Cormac,
Lots of sound advice so far posted. Just as a consideration though I would say that a collegue and I taught a pro cricketer who was 6'6" tall in an R22 and he fitted in ok and he did a fantastic job of flying. So depending on your instructors size and weight (I am 5'8") then a 22 is still an option. Of course if you can afford a larger machine then nothing wrong with splashing some cash.

Banjo

[cormac]

44's

All very sound and useful advice Thanks guys Without intentionally going off on a tangent Is the 44 too 'refined' for a hapless newbe such as myself. If more newcomers are using them whats the feedback? Im prob(or most definitely) crossing threads now

Cormac

[helimutt]

go to a couple of the above mentioned places and see about a trial lesson. pick a 44 or 300 or try both. the time still counts towards a licence and if u explain wot ur after, i'm sure you'll get sorted. at 16 stone, with an average size instructor you'd be fine in an r22.

[Whirlybird]

So depending on your instructors size and weight (I am 5'8") then a 22 is still an option.

No, it's not. The SEAT LIMIT in the R22 is about 17 stone.

Cormac,
The R44 is a great machine. It's easier to fly, and to learn on, than the twitchy little R22. And as someone pointed out, the way of charging means it's not as expensive as it sounds initially. We have someone at Tatenhill learning on it for the same reason as you - I'm not sure how tall he is, but he looks around 7 ft....but from my 5ft 2ins, I can't estimate that precisely beyond a certain height. He's getting on fine and seems quite happy. Tatenhill is probably a bit far for you, but we have two R44s there, a Raven and a Raven II (fuel injected version). And since we've had them, more and more people seem to be wanting to learn on them.

[Pandalet]

The R44 would be easier to learn on than the R22, since (as Whirls said) it's less twitchy and things happen far slower (more time to think, etc). It will cost you more, no two ways. Having learned in a R22 then converted to a R44, I find it a bit nicer to fly, although it can be grey-hair inducing when you're on your own!

North London Flying School at Panshanger (near Welwyn) do training in both R22 and R44, and are a bit cheaper than the London-based schools last I checked - I can give you the number of one of the instructors there if you're interested.

[bvgs]

The school that taught me in Scotland use both 22's and a 44. Although the 44 is more expensive it would appear that students are passing closer to the 45 hours than in a 22. So in the long run it might not be such a huge difference. It is as whirly says easier to fly and less twitchy unless your in it on your own and need fuel, things get a bit more interesting then

Wish you all the best whatever you do, you could always go to the States and learn in a Bell 47!

[rotorboater]

I am 6'3" & close to 17 stone and have an R22 & R44 rating, They are both no problem to fly but they are both very small width wise, if you are like me with 48" chest then its a bit tight but doable.

I learnt on an Enstrom which might be another option for you, its cheaper than an R44 and very wide so no problems there and can easily lift the weight.

It depends mainly on what you are going to do when you get your license, I was going to buy a 44 but only do about 100 hrs per year and the costs don't add up too well so I bought an Enstrom which dosn't have the 12 year rebuild problem.

I think you can lean on Enstroms at Shorham.

[Whirlybird]

It is as whirly says easier to fly and less twitchy unless your in it on your own and need fuel, things get a bit more interesting then

You guys never heard of ballast? I'm lighter than a lot of people, but I just carry a very full flight bag and anything else that might conceivably be useful, and flying the R44 solo is just fine.