McRae Crash & Fatal Accident Inquiry
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I think pilots suffer with the same affliction as most GPs when it comes to the general public.
Namely that they think that their profession is such a speciality that the dumb punter must put his faith totally in their hands without question or contradiction, even though experience shows that both doctors and pilots regularly mess up, despite their own frequently god like belief that they are the professional experts.
I feel my analysis is every bit as responsible as that you might read in a national newspaper and a damn site more responsible than those national journalists who try to extract comments from the McRae family asking how they are feeling.
The attitude that nobody other than a helicopter pilot is entitled to comment on this topic when I also happen to be a motorsport fan simply reflects the well known ego mania and control freakery from which many members of your profession all too often suffer. In fact about the only place I have come across such objectionable and contemptuous attitudes to relatively informed newbies is in flying forums. Do you really still all model your personalities on John Wayne?
With respect to manners I have expressed my severe sense of loss at the sad news in the other relevant thread. But this thread is specifically for analysing the circumstances of the crash.
By the way I notice that my three tormenters all have under 60 posts in this forum which hardly qualifies them as experts on what is and is not an acceptable post. They also seem incapable of expressing themselves without the use of expletives but may be that is a normal pilot thing?
Namely that they think that their profession is such a speciality that the dumb punter must put his faith totally in their hands without question or contradiction, even though experience shows that both doctors and pilots regularly mess up, despite their own frequently god like belief that they are the professional experts.
I feel my analysis is every bit as responsible as that you might read in a national newspaper and a damn site more responsible than those national journalists who try to extract comments from the McRae family asking how they are feeling.
The attitude that nobody other than a helicopter pilot is entitled to comment on this topic when I also happen to be a motorsport fan simply reflects the well known ego mania and control freakery from which many members of your profession all too often suffer. In fact about the only place I have come across such objectionable and contemptuous attitudes to relatively informed newbies is in flying forums. Do you really still all model your personalities on John Wayne?
With respect to manners I have expressed my severe sense of loss at the sad news in the other relevant thread. But this thread is specifically for analysing the circumstances of the crash.
By the way I notice that my three tormenters all have under 60 posts in this forum which hardly qualifies them as experts on what is and is not an acceptable post. They also seem incapable of expressing themselves without the use of expletives but may be that is a normal pilot thing?
Last edited by Capvermell; 17th Sep 2007 at 19:24.
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Capevermell,
You might want to cut some of the guys here some slack, they have just lost a colleague, and in some cases a close friend, so its still a bit raw.
Colin was a good friend of mine also and all I would suggest is maybe phrasing the questions a bit differently in future. Pilots are a mixed bunch same as any other industry so please dont judge them all the same. Its the same as journos and financial advisors etc.
Just my 0.02 cents worth.
CDME
You might want to cut some of the guys here some slack, they have just lost a colleague, and in some cases a close friend, so its still a bit raw.
Colin was a good friend of mine also and all I would suggest is maybe phrasing the questions a bit differently in future. Pilots are a mixed bunch same as any other industry so please dont judge them all the same. Its the same as journos and financial advisors etc.
Just my 0.02 cents worth.
CDME
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Oh dear - when you have nothing useful to say, best to say nothing or risk being dammed by patent ignorance.
I'm a doctor and helicopter pilot - perhaps I can find another niche skill you can vent nonsense about Capvermell? Speculation is something pilots and doctors try not to engage in - is that what you mean by an affliction?
What a shame this thread has deteriorated into nonsense when it should serve as a record of respect, good memories and honest debate.
I'm a doctor and helicopter pilot - perhaps I can find another niche skill you can vent nonsense about Capvermell? Speculation is something pilots and doctors try not to engage in - is that what you mean by an affliction?
What a shame this thread has deteriorated into nonsense when it should serve as a record of respect, good memories and honest debate.
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Capvermell,
There is an etiquette exercised by pilots that when we do not know the cause of an accident we do not wildy speculate. To do so risks unfairly damaging the reputation of the pilot, manufacturer, maintenence organisation and anyone else even remotely involved. It is also potentially distressing to friends and family.
We consider it good manners to wait until the AAIB report is published before commenting on the cause of an accident.
Hope that explains why you received a hostile response.
There is an etiquette exercised by pilots that when we do not know the cause of an accident we do not wildy speculate. To do so risks unfairly damaging the reputation of the pilot, manufacturer, maintenence organisation and anyone else even remotely involved. It is also potentially distressing to friends and family.
We consider it good manners to wait until the AAIB report is published before commenting on the cause of an accident.
Hope that explains why you received a hostile response.
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What a shame this thread has deteriorated into nonsense when it should serve as a record of respect, good memories and honest debate.
No one could be more upset than me that Colin McRae's life and brilliant driving career has been cut short, especially as I am a fan of the Paris-Dakar rally in which I am sure he would have continued to participate and even probably win in the coming years.
But that is why I would like to try to get the bottom of how such a terrible accident could have befallen him in a helicopter he knew well on terrain that he knew like the back of his hand.
Last edited by Capvermell; 17th Sep 2007 at 20:01.
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What a shame this thread has deteriorated into nonsense when it should serve as a record of respect, good memories and honest debate.
Having said that perhaps the correct place for this thread was therefore in the Rumours & News section of the forum and not in the Rotorheads section.
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Speculation achieves nothing. Facts are what matter and I cannot sit at my PC and come up with facts. What a pity journalism does not work the same way.
edit: Actually I think most of the press coverage I have seen on this tragedy has been quite good. They dont seem to be able to get the type right but that is of no consequence. I havent seen any lurid speculation apart from on this thread.
edit: Actually I think most of the press coverage I have seen on this tragedy has been quite good. They dont seem to be able to get the type right but that is of no consequence. I havent seen any lurid speculation apart from on this thread.
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The fact the pilot was a famous rallydriver, is not at all important. It's a terrible accident and four people where killed. It's not done to comment on possible causes Mr.Capvermell. We are not analysing financial markets or anything to do with money, we're talking about lifes. It's all a matter of respect.
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Speculation achieves nothing. Facts are what matter and I cannot sit at my PC and come up with facts. What a pity journalism does not work the same way.
Nicely put, Gaseuos.
It is often so simple to pull down careless reporters who obviously are more concerned with a quick report - not whether it contains any facts or even bearing on the event - it is the speed that counts. Today I was reading many newspapers (in a Waiting Room) about this event and was astonished to read the variety of versions. I am astounded some even got the right date!
In my job I check the facts before acting (despite Pilots' reports) and check the facts again when I finish.
There seems to be no journalistic pride in the accuracy of their reporting.
It is often so simple to pull down careless reporters who obviously are more concerned with a quick report - not whether it contains any facts or even bearing on the event - it is the speed that counts. Today I was reading many newspapers (in a Waiting Room) about this event and was astonished to read the variety of versions. I am astounded some even got the right date!
In my job I check the facts before acting (despite Pilots' reports) and check the facts again when I finish.
There seems to be no journalistic pride in the accuracy of their reporting.
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If I was you I would stick a paper bag over my head for a year
Last edited by Gaseous; 17th Sep 2007 at 20:08.
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I should say that the only people who could speculate about a helicopter accident are people who have ,and can actually fly one.
Presumably under your theory if my doctor cuts my leg off in surgery accidentally due to reading the wrong notes I am not allowed to speculate on why he did it because he is a trained doctor and I am not. And no one can comment on whether Gordon Brown is running the country properly apart from Tony Blair, John Major or Margaret Thatcher under your view on who is actually qualified to speak about the competence with which someone else is carrying out their job. And of course no one else is therefore entitled to speak about the competence of The Queen in carrying out her job as her predecessors in the role are all dead.
Do you also believe in divine right and ducking stools by any chance as well.
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And you will notice that this is a Professional Pilots Rumour Network, so please tell me what qualifies you to comment- and please dont say because you have read books and aaib reports 
How can you possibly speculate on any flying aspect of the crash if you have no experience?
How can you possibly speculate on any flying aspect of the crash if you have no experience?
Capvermell
We could all, helicopter pilots or not list, many many reasons why this accident could have occured. I personally wouldn't list one as I have no idea what the actual cause was. Until such times as the AAIB release the facts, nobody would benefit from that. The hostile reaction to you is probably for that reason. Perhaps time for you to end your comments and wait for the report.