On pilot shortages and stuff

[Hedski]

I agree with both sides to the recruitment of low timers issue. Yes they need to be hungry for the job and willing to start at the bottom, accept lesser income due to lack of experience. But this is a highly skilled and demanding industry requiring the very best, and more recently much investment to become successfully recruited into (IR/ME types on licence etc.)
However, there seems to be a massive gap between offshore and onshore pay. As previously mentioned both have their own specific skills and potential pitfalls in very different ways at times. Surely this would then indicate that a HEMS/police/corporate IR pilot operating at night or landing in confined sometimes unlit areas would have and/or require a similar high skill level to an offshore/SAR captain operating over water in potential icing and horrendous winds with moving decks or a man dangling 150' on the winch wire.
Starting salaries for the former are about 40k (correct me if inaccurate please), perhaps 60k on the corporate front versus offshore earnings 65k through 85k. Surely there are as many risks of similar value on both sides so why the discrepancy.
Bond onshore recently lowered their hours minima for HEMS, this may help highly skilled pilots with lower but high quality hours be recruited....... or will it open flood gates to mere potential bums on seats with less to offer in demanding situations. Either way this was the option taken before raising salaries!!
Police operators seem to request and pay similar but the number of military retirees is ever decreasing. I have been requested by one PAOC operator to submit my CV upon reaching the minimum 1500TT, but for 40k to live in the expensive areas of the UK????? I'm an offshore FO earning at least 10k more than the offering on the table and living in an area of less expense, yet I have a mere 1000TT. Am I really going to jump at that chance?
This is not to rub it in to those less fortunate, merely to highlight the pending shortage of relative experience required for the roles mentioned above.
Interestingly a former training colleague of mine was recruited by one offshore operator and is embarking on a successful offshore career but a rival company didn't so much as acknowledge his application to them, not the first instance of this either. And they wonder why we are struggling with WTD, fatigue etc......
Things will get ugly before they get better...........!!!! Standby for carnage.

[tecpilot]

yes, there is a shortage of people with 2,000 turbine hours, 500 twin, 300 low-level, 300 night, 100 NVG etc. who the hell has that kind of experience?

Not so few, as you think! Ex mil, sure. Plus IR!
But with this experience you can earn onshore in an average european EMS or police environment around 35k £. If you have such a hype in salaries in the UK sure a lot of EC people will move next time

[HillerBee]

If there is a shortage, why does a good friend of mine who is working onshore 2500 hrs. 2000+ pic, 300 ME, 900 Turbine, CPL(H), FI(H), IR(A) however, not even get a reply from CHC, Bristows and Bond?? And that's what I hear all the time.

I think the likes of CHC and Bristows might have an attitude problem, I understand if low-times who absolutely don't meet any requirement don't get a reply, but serious applications is a different matter.

[bb in ca]

Originally Posted by HillerBee

If there is a shortage, why does a good friend of mine who is working onshore 2500 hrs. 2000+ pic, 300 ME, 900 Turbine, CPL(H), FI(H), IR(A) however, not even get a reply from CHC, Bristows and Bond?? And that's what I hear all the time.
I think the likes of CHC and Bristows might have an attitude problem, I understand if low-times who absolutely don't meet any requirement don't get a reply, but serious applications is a different matter.

HillerBee,

I think for the most part offshore companies are looking for experienced and qualified captains not good candidates for new first-officers.

Quite often they have to use foreign nationals in the country of operations thus they fill the position of first officer.

My 2 cents,
bb

[robsrich]

Highly specialised line work - Chief Pilot - Oz

An Australian company recently advertised for line pilots (turbines) and got very few replies from Oz; however, a good number from NZ drivers who had the qualifications. A puzzle to say the least and this problem has occurred before. A lot of NZ instructors are coming over to work in Australian schools. So why is this so? Where are the boys from Oz?

Some observers suggest that CHC and other large companies are sucking the system dry of these mid level blokes.

Another said that the CASA needs (paperwork) for a Chief Pilot or a CFI were too onerous when there was plenty of flying without the need to go up that next rung of the career ladder.

So how will a specialised power line company fare when their Chief Pilot moves to a job closer to home. The cupboard seems bare to say the least in Oz.

Anyhow the good news is that an advert will appear in an Australian newspaper on Fri 26 Jan '07. I believe they are a good company, doing a difficult job in the electrical distribution industry and are recognised through out the world as being good at their work. With ten machines and some overseas work; they are somewhat different (more professional) than some of the other operators.
This is due in part to the strict auditing and QA imposed on them by their clients, so everything has to be by the book.

So if you can go up that "next rung" on your career ladder, then give it a go!

The about to be advertised job reads as follows:

CHIEF PILOT

Aeropower is Australia's leading electrical contractor with extensive
experience in power line maintenance and construction. The Chief Pilot will
be responsible for more than ten helicopters in this very specialized
industry.

Minimum requirements:

. Commercial Helicopter Licence
. Relevant power line experience
. 2,000 hours on helicopters
. 100 hours MD500/H369D/E and 100 hours low level.

Attractive salary package based on experience and qualifications will be offered.

Please direct all enquiries by 02/02/07 to:
[email protected]
[phone]

[HillerBee]

Originally Posted by bb in ca

HillerBee,
I think for the most part offshore companies are looking for experienced and qualified captains not good candidates for new first-officers.
Quite often they have to use foreign nationals in the country of operations thus they fill the position of first officer.
My 2 cents,
bb

But is someone with 2500 hrs. not much closer to captaincy then a 200 hr 'wonder'. So I still don't understand it.

[Bravo73]

Originally Posted by HillerBee

But is someone with 2500 hrs. not much closer to captaincy then a 200 hr 'wonder'. So I still don't understand it.

Not necessarily. And especially not if he's a 'dyed in the wool' single pilot, VFR driver.

Although he might well have better situational awareness and aircraft control, it might be harder to 'mould' him into a multicrew, 'procedural' co-pilot.

[BaronG]

Originally Posted by Hedski

However, there seems to be a massive gap between offshore and onshore pay. As previously mentioned both have their own specific skills and potential pitfalls in very different ways at times. Surely this would then indicate that a HEMS/police/corporate IR pilot operating at night or landing in confined sometimes unlit areas would have and/or require a similar high skill level to an offshore/SAR captain operating over water in potential icing and horrendous winds with moving decks or a man dangling 150' on the winch wire.
Starting salaries for the former are about 40k (correct me if inaccurate please), perhaps 60k on the corporate front versus offshore earnings 65k through 85k. Surely there are as many risks of similar value on both sides so why the discrepancy.

I really don't have sufficient time in the industry to say for sure, but from what I hear/understand, the difference (or perhaps one difference) is unionisation.

BALPA are the ones who have dragged the offshore pay and conditions to a better level than they were...

[Staticdroop]

Hillerbee,
The offshore companies prefer low hour pilots as they can be molded to the company requirements over the years, they do occasionally require to recruit high hour captains but they generally prefer co-pilots, the problem is there are plenty of them.

[HillerBee]

Originally Posted by Staticdroop

Hillerbee,
The offshore companies prefer low hour pilots as they can be molded to the company requirements over the years, they do occasionally require to recruit high hour captains but they generally prefer co-pilots, the problem is there are plenty of them.

I do understand that. But if there was a real shortage, it wouldn't matter anymore, they would need bums on seats. So I do not think there is a real shortage.

Btw. I heard Bristows even has a recruitment freeze at the moment.

[i4iq]

World economy 'set for good 2007'

Well maybe the good news for 2007 will help the industry...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6294661.stm

[Hedski]

I agree BaronG, as a member I must say BALPA are greatly responsible for the strengthened position we find ourselves in. The power of collective bargaining.......
Interestingly the lower north sea salaries, for co-pilots at least, are with the firm that refuse to deal with BALPA. Their onshore HEMS counterpart sound no better for willingness to deal with a pilots union for pretty much anything, the payscales reflect this. Employees of that skill level deserve better. Lets hope someone pushes to have this reflected, and not be dictated to.
If anything here is inaccurate I gladly await correction.
H

[starshiptrooper]

To all the Offshore pilot I offended..........my point on the hours was mentioned to be by an on-shore company pilot, who was actaully ex off-shore. I have no doubt what you guys do is extremely demanding and pretty fiesty at times...............I know believe me !

My point was more on overall experience i.e. hot/high/mountains/snow/desert ???? etc etc

I hoping you get my point now !

Suppose just frustrated at lack of progress getting work.....look likes the bank manager will be rubbing his hands in glee when I ask for the 20k (incl type rating) to do an IR !!

Any more abuse ???

[helimutt]

If you can find somewhere that you can can do the IR for 20k then post the company here as i'm sure lots of eople would be interested. I know there are companies that advertise for £19k plus some, but with a type rating, accom costs, licence issue and tests, not to mention partials etc, you will be easily looking at £30k.

Don't know what Tiger are charging for IR on the 109 sim they now have but all companies seem busy and heard that CHC will continue recruiting for at least the next year. Time for some to bit e the bullet and to do an IR I guess.

Safe flying!

[AJF]

regarding attitude problem.

I just wanted to shed some positive news on CHC, as i am a 200 hour pilot looking for a job and they have replied to my emails, as did Bristows. however no job, but a reply atleast.
Cheers
AJF

[BRASSEMUP]

I agree with AJF, although i have had no dealings with Bristows. CHC HR dept in Aberdeen are really helpfull.

[helimutt]

CHC HR are very helpful as anyone who has had dealings with them will know. 200hrs or not, there's plenty of similar people just been taken on and had their IR's paid for!