Single pilot job axe at 60 can cause heart risk
Thread Starter
Single pilot job axe at 60 can cause heart risk
We waited a long time but in the end ICAO didn't change the single pilot age limit to 65. Now it's a certainty the CAA won't change either.
Great news then that research published in a recent paper in the British Medical Journal suggests that late career job loss (for example at an arbitary age limit) causes "exceptional stress" and can double the risk of heart attack or stroke.
Great news then that research published in a recent paper in the British Medical Journal suggests that late career job loss (for example at an arbitary age limit) causes "exceptional stress" and can double the risk of heart attack or stroke.
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the British Medical Journal suggests that late career job loss (for example at an arbitary age limit) causes "exceptional stress" and can double the risk of heart attack or stroke.
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I think the CAA will have to think again despite anything ICAO says.
There is a European Directive, shortly to become Law in UK, about age discrimination which an arbitrary (and it certainly is completely arbitrary in the absence of any medical evidence to the contrary) age limit must be.
Any views on this from Ppruners in the legal professions?
There is a European Directive, shortly to become Law in UK, about age discrimination which an arbitrary (and it certainly is completely arbitrary in the absence of any medical evidence to the contrary) age limit must be.
Any views on this from Ppruners in the legal professions?
Thread Starter
Recent informed rumours from CAA quarters is that the arbitary age 60 rule is to remain.
Arbitary in the sense that, despite holding current class 1 medicals, single pilots becomes unfit on their 60th birthdays.
That impending job loss could cause an individual "exceptional stress" BEFORE the dreaded birthday! (How can it be "retirement"? A man still needs 5 years more NI contributions!)
Arbitary in the sense that, despite holding current class 1 medicals, single pilots becomes unfit on their 60th birthdays.
That impending job loss could cause an individual "exceptional stress" BEFORE the dreaded birthday! (How can it be "retirement"? A man still needs 5 years more NI contributions!)
Hovering AND talking
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I would imagine most pilots are unfit on their 60th birthday 
however, they should be right by the following afternoon!
It is arbitary and what is contradictary is that a pilot over age 60 can still be an instructor. What's the difference, essentially, between taking a student and taking a passenger except that with the student there is more chance that they'll do something daft!
Bertie, if the government have their way, that five years may well be seven!
Cheers
Whirls
however, they should be right by the following afternoon!It is arbitary and what is contradictary is that a pilot over age 60 can still be an instructor. What's the difference, essentially, between taking a student and taking a passenger except that with the student there is more chance that they'll do something daft!
Bertie, if the government have their way, that five years may well be seven!
Cheers
Whirls
Don't let CASA know: we can still operate iaw CAR 5.126:
or even better if you are over 65
Much the same reg 5.180 for ATPL, by the way.
5.126 Commercial (helicopter) pilot: requirements if over 60 years old
(1) A commercial (helicopter) pilot who is at least 60 years old must not
fly as pilot in command of a helicopter:
(a) that is engaged in commercial operations; and
(b) that is carrying passengers.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(1A) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.
fly as pilot in command of a helicopter:
(a) that is engaged in commercial operations; and
(b) that is carrying passengers.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
(1A) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.
Note
For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.
(2) Subregulation (1) does not apply to a commercial (helicopter) pilot if:
(a) the pilot flies a helicopter:
(i) that is fitted with fully functioning dual controls; and
(ii) that has an operating crew that includes a qualified pilot who is not the pilot in command; or
(b) in the case of a pilot who is less than 65 years old—within the period of 1 year immediately before the day of the proposed flight the pilot has satisfactorily completed a helicopter proficiency check or a helicopter flight review; or
(c) in the case of a pilot who is at least 65 years old—within the period of 6 months immediately before the day of the proposed flight the pilot has satisfactorily completed a helicopter proficiency check or a helicopter flight review.
(a) the pilot flies a helicopter:
(i) that is fitted with fully functioning dual controls; and
(ii) that has an operating crew that includes a qualified pilot who is not the pilot in command; or
(b) in the case of a pilot who is less than 65 years old—within the period of 1 year immediately before the day of the proposed flight the pilot has satisfactorily completed a helicopter proficiency check or a helicopter flight review; or
(c) in the case of a pilot who is at least 65 years old—within the period of 6 months immediately before the day of the proposed flight the pilot has satisfactorily completed a helicopter proficiency check or a helicopter flight review.
(3) In this regulation:
qualified pilot
means a commercial (helicopter) pilot or an air transport (helicopter) pilot who:
(a) holds a command endorsement for the helicopter; and
(b) if an activity for which a flight crew rating is required is to be carried out during the flight—holds a flight crew rating, or grade of flight crew rating, that authorises him or her to carry out the activity as pilot in command of the helicopter; and
(c) either:
(i) is less than 60 years old; or
(ii) satisfies the requirements of paragraph (2) (b) or (c).
(a) holds a command endorsement for the helicopter; and
(b) if an activity for which a flight crew rating is required is to be carried out during the flight—holds a flight crew rating, or grade of flight crew rating, that authorises him or her to carry out the activity as pilot in command of the helicopter; and
(c) either:
(i) is less than 60 years old; or
(ii) satisfies the requirements of paragraph (2) (b) or (c).
or even better if you are over 65
Much the same reg 5.180 for ATPL, by the way.Join Date: Feb 2005
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still a big issue, carting a sub around costs.
Had a briefing recently on the new IR laws. Have you had one John Eacott? I might be able to find some links for the origin of ours. It was interesting in that;
a) a fair bit of it was based on the UK model, and
b) a strong general thrust of our Prime Ministers' (and esp the one in waiting) whole IR debate is to keep the 'baby boomers' working for longer so as to reduce the social services retirement cost to the so called lucky country.
Baby boomers? the very high % of our OZ workforce who all calved down immediately after that great Hitler fracus and of course are now close to the tender dreaded age.
Had a briefing recently on the new IR laws. Have you had one John Eacott? I might be able to find some links for the origin of ours. It was interesting in that;
a) a fair bit of it was based on the UK model, and
b) a strong general thrust of our Prime Ministers' (and esp the one in waiting) whole IR debate is to keep the 'baby boomers' working for longer so as to reduce the social services retirement cost to the so called lucky country.
Baby boomers? the very high % of our OZ workforce who all calved down immediately after that great Hitler fracus and of course are now close to the tender dreaded age.
Avoid imitations
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Bertie,
Getting worried, are we?
Personally, I'd give it up tomorrow if I could. I get traumatised thinking I can't, not good for the heart....
My ideal second career will be getting up late, loafing about a bit, followed by a nice lunch, followed by a bit of gardening, followed by loafing in the garden.
If I do get short of a bob or two, I reckon I'd be good enough to collect those supermarket trolleys, given a few hours on type.
Failing that, I think I'll probably just have to keep going till I drop.
Getting worried, are we?
Personally, I'd give it up tomorrow if I could. I get traumatised thinking I can't, not good for the heart....
My ideal second career will be getting up late, loafing about a bit, followed by a nice lunch, followed by a bit of gardening, followed by loafing in the garden.
If I do get short of a bob or two, I reckon I'd be good enough to collect those supermarket trolleys, given a few hours on type.
Failing that, I think I'll probably just have to keep going till I drop.
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Shy
"He who does nothing does not seem to be a free man."
Cicero
Over here an aspired position is -traffic controller, Grade Two!!* They, get to use the - slow / stop signs - AND the two way radio, and probably get paid more than any of us.
"He who does nothing does not seem to be a free man."
Cicero
Over here an aspired position is -traffic controller, Grade Two!!* They, get to use the - slow / stop signs - AND the two way radio, and probably get paid more than any of us.
Thread Starter
The ICAO amendment confirms pilot age limits for international flights only. So I expect the CAA will have to come up with valid reasons to maintain the present national age limits before the EU age discrimination legislation due in October.
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I think some posters have missed out a bit of the title of this thread, as it only refers to curtailment to single pilot privileges, and then I think, only for public transport flights. Many countries allow pilots over the age of 60 to fly in a multi-crew cockpit, provided the other pilot has not yet attained the age of 60. It does, however, seem very arbitrary, not based on the results of a pilot's medical or skills test. After all there are pilots out there in their 40s with blood pressure and heart problems, controlled by medication and legally able to fly as part of a multi-pilot crew, whereas there are pilots of over 60 with no medical problems. As people generally stay fitter longer and live longer many countries are talking of changing their official State retirement to reflect this (and pay for pensions!!) and an extension to a pilot's working life would obviously also be in order. It might also help to reduce costs as if pilots were to have longer to save for their retirement they might not require to be paid as much 
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Shy Torque
You told me on a dark and stormy night as we approached minima out in the boon docks and were about to go-around (following your customary yawn) that you wanted to have a little workshop in the Peak District warmed by a pot bellied stove.
Don't give up yet - and keep the dream alive!
UG
You told me on a dark and stormy night as we approached minima out in the boon docks and were about to go-around (following your customary yawn) that you wanted to have a little workshop in the Peak District warmed by a pot bellied stove.
Don't give up yet - and keep the dream alive!
UG
Avoid imitations
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Originally Posted by Upland Goose
Shy Torque
You told me on a dark and stormy night as we approached minima out in the boon docks and were about to go-around (following your customary yawn) that you wanted to have a little workshop in the Peak District warmed by a pot bellied stove.
Don't give up yet - and keep the dream alive!
UG
You told me on a dark and stormy night as we approached minima out in the boon docks and were about to go-around (following your customary yawn) that you wanted to have a little workshop in the Peak District warmed by a pot bellied stove.
Don't give up yet - and keep the dream alive!
UG
That probably wasn't a yawn - more like a camouflaged sigh of terror! Don't forget the dog on the pegged rug
P.S. You'll need a big stove to keep you warm in that big rivetting workshop where you're going
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Personally I can’t wait until I am 60, retire, sign on, and have my NI paid by the government that has robbed me blind for more years than I care to mention. I could then spend some time travelling the world with someone else doing the driving. I may even take the wife if she behaves.
