Nomex vs Cotton Layers for Heli EMS Operations
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Location: Canada
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Nomex vs Cotton Layers for Heli EMS Operations
Hello all.
I went searching for a similar thread to no avail, so please excuse me if I am repeating myself.
I have been tasked with finding substantive information regarding the pros / cons of Nomex vs Cotton layers for Heli EMS ops. I am curious as to how the "industry" would self-define the "standard". I am of course familiar with most of the arguments re flash fire, etc but the dilemma we face is finding the appropriate balance between "safety" (which some may define as All Nomex...All the time"), and comfort: What can we provide to our crews who are working in the high +20's, low to mid +30's (Celsius) that is prudently safe yet safely comfortable.
Have at it. I am looking forward to mining the thread. Please add links to good sites, or other similar discussions.
Here is one such link / discussion: http://flightweb.com/forum/viewtopic...&showtopic=874
Thanks
wde
aka
Walter Heneghan
Manager, System Safety
Canadian Helicopters EMS
I went searching for a similar thread to no avail, so please excuse me if I am repeating myself.
I have been tasked with finding substantive information regarding the pros / cons of Nomex vs Cotton layers for Heli EMS ops. I am curious as to how the "industry" would self-define the "standard". I am of course familiar with most of the arguments re flash fire, etc but the dilemma we face is finding the appropriate balance between "safety" (which some may define as All Nomex...All the time"), and comfort: What can we provide to our crews who are working in the high +20's, low to mid +30's (Celsius) that is prudently safe yet safely comfortable.
Have at it. I am looking forward to mining the thread. Please add links to good sites, or other similar discussions.
Here is one such link / discussion: http://flightweb.com/forum/viewtopic...&showtopic=874
Thanks
wde
aka
Walter Heneghan
Manager, System Safety
Canadian Helicopters EMS
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Aus
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Material Mix for Fire Retardation
Hi,
I operate in similiar temperatures and we use a blended material mix of 50% Nomex and 50% FR Viscovse in our Flight Suits. The Flight Suits are "Fire Retartdant" and are not fire proof.
The suits are resonably comfortable to wear in the higher temps/higher humity areas. It would be hard to find the perfect suit under these conditions, unless you fly in an aircraft with airconditioning.
We also wear Nomex gloves.
The Supplier (in Aus) is Sisley Clothing Australia.
http://www.sisleyclothing.com.au/
Hope this is of some help.
Cool flying.
800
I operate in similiar temperatures and we use a blended material mix of 50% Nomex and 50% FR Viscovse in our Flight Suits. The Flight Suits are "Fire Retartdant" and are not fire proof.
The suits are resonably comfortable to wear in the higher temps/higher humity areas. It would be hard to find the perfect suit under these conditions, unless you fly in an aircraft with airconditioning.
We also wear Nomex gloves.
The Supplier (in Aus) is Sisley Clothing Australia.
http://www.sisleyclothing.com.au/
Hope this is of some help.
Cool flying.
800
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Thanks for the heads up. what are their prices like? Do you wear the 1 or 2 piece? How's the durability? any info is helpful, PM if you wish and I'll provide and email address.
wde
wde
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rags to fly in.
WDE,
Hope this helps
most in Oztralia wear either nomex blend or cotton.
Most comfortable is 93% nomex, 5% kevlar and 2% carbon fibre. Two pairs of pants and a jacket should last at least a year. Pants tend to wear out at the knees.
Have also flown in 50%nomex 50% viscose but that doesn't wick well when it gets hot and sticky. Looking at an old Rundles one piece now.
Was doing a ground job today in fire retardent treated pure cotton which is comfortable after a couple of washes. Blood doesn't wash out that well though.
All are labelled fire retardent not fire proof. There are varying weights of fabric and some are very uncomfortable.
Talk to Matt Sisley for some fabric samples.
BT
in summer cotton underpants and T shirt.
In winter 100% merino wool two piece thermals which are good for ops in OZ with the door open.
Helmet and gloves always.
As for choosing which it needs a risk assessment which can be undertaken using the Australian/NZ standard.
PM me if you need more info.
The Eye
Hope this helps
most in Oztralia wear either nomex blend or cotton.
Most comfortable is 93% nomex, 5% kevlar and 2% carbon fibre. Two pairs of pants and a jacket should last at least a year. Pants tend to wear out at the knees.
Have also flown in 50%nomex 50% viscose but that doesn't wick well when it gets hot and sticky. Looking at an old Rundles one piece now.
Was doing a ground job today in fire retardent treated pure cotton which is comfortable after a couple of washes. Blood doesn't wash out that well though.
All are labelled fire retardent not fire proof. There are varying weights of fabric and some are very uncomfortable.
Talk to Matt Sisley for some fabric samples.
BT
in summer cotton underpants and T shirt.
In winter 100% merino wool two piece thermals which are good for ops in OZ with the door open.
Helmet and gloves always.
As for choosing which it needs a risk assessment which can be undertaken using the Australian/NZ standard.
PM me if you need more info.
The Eye
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Aus
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BT,
I use cotton jocks and T-Shirt with woolen socks. 1 or 2 peice is a personal choice for the crews.
I mainly fly in the warmer areas of Aus so do not have to use thermals as the guys down south do. Also, a 2 peice allows you to remove the top and have a T-Shirt underneath whilst on scene waiting for the departure. A bit cooler on those hot days.
For those with a 2 peice, no such luxury unless you wrap the arms around your waist (which looks untidy).
Helmet also with nomex gloves, boots with good soles (for walking - reducing sore feet) which are oil and acid resistant (so AVTUR doesn't eat them).
You may have to consider items worn under the suit and items on top of like flight jackets or life jackets for proper fit.
If you have crew, that kneel down, you might consider the appropriate placement of pocket zippers (so as to not rub against the knee while kneeling on the floor) and possible inserted padding into the knee area. The chosen manufacturer should be able to do this.
regards,
800
I use cotton jocks and T-Shirt with woolen socks. 1 or 2 peice is a personal choice for the crews.
I mainly fly in the warmer areas of Aus so do not have to use thermals as the guys down south do. Also, a 2 peice allows you to remove the top and have a T-Shirt underneath whilst on scene waiting for the departure. A bit cooler on those hot days.
For those with a 2 peice, no such luxury unless you wrap the arms around your waist (which looks untidy).
Helmet also with nomex gloves, boots with good soles (for walking - reducing sore feet) which are oil and acid resistant (so AVTUR doesn't eat them).
You may have to consider items worn under the suit and items on top of like flight jackets or life jackets for proper fit.
If you have crew, that kneel down, you might consider the appropriate placement of pocket zippers (so as to not rub against the knee while kneeling on the floor) and possible inserted padding into the knee area. The chosen manufacturer should be able to do this.
regards,
800
As said, the nomex mix is fire retardent, rather than fireproof. However, it doesn't stop the transfer of heat through the suit. Ideally you should wear long sleeved and long legged underwear for full protection, and of course it should be cotton as nylon will just melt into your skin.
