Bell 206: JetRanger and LongRanger
PPRuNe Enigma
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yee-haa ! Passed my flight test a couple of weeks ago and got my new ratings pages back from the CAA today.
Thanks everybody for the advice and encouragement !
Thanks everybody for the advice and encouragement !
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Age: 57
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi all,
Have really enjoyed reading this thread. I have just completed 20 hrs on the 206, what a joy!! I enjoy my Bell 47 but this was just tons of fun!. I was very lucky to have gone over hovering auto's, stuck pedals, 180 auto's, max perform take off's, slopes, confined landings, pinnicals. I still however am very nervous on start up, the dreaded hot start!! hopefully this will ease with expirence, and following advice on here.
I have really learnt a lot from this thead. One thing I did read was in reference to the hovering Auto, that you must be at 70% and very close to the grd. We were performing these, from various heights up to 10 feet, and whilst going sideways, and in turns, the auto in all situations seemed very benine. The 5 hr conversion cost me $3500, which I thought very reasonable. Keep the advice coming..
Darren
Have really enjoyed reading this thread. I have just completed 20 hrs on the 206, what a joy!! I enjoy my Bell 47 but this was just tons of fun!. I was very lucky to have gone over hovering auto's, stuck pedals, 180 auto's, max perform take off's, slopes, confined landings, pinnicals. I still however am very nervous on start up, the dreaded hot start!! hopefully this will ease with expirence, and following advice on here.
I have really learnt a lot from this thead. One thing I did read was in reference to the hovering Auto, that you must be at 70% and very close to the grd. We were performing these, from various heights up to 10 feet, and whilst going sideways, and in turns, the auto in all situations seemed very benine. The 5 hr conversion cost me $3500, which I thought very reasonable. Keep the advice coming..
Darren
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 72
Posts: 4,166
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes
on
14 Posts
With reference to power, if you come in on a controlled approach at around 250 fpm, you shouldn't have to move the collective at all at the bottom, if you get ground effect from the surface - particularly useful in mountains
Enjoy the machine, it's a goodie.
Phil
Enjoy the machine, it's a goodie.
Phil
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
206 Overtorque Indications
Hi All,
Quick question, What
indications on the panel appart from the Tq gauge, would a 206 pilot get if he was overtorquing the engine. For instance,
the checklist gives a max Tq of 100% for 5 mins, or
110% for 5 seconds. Would the pilot see a rise in TOT
or transmission temps, or would the bugger just seize
or what?
TIA
MB
Quick question, What
indications on the panel appart from the Tq gauge, would a 206 pilot get if he was overtorquing the engine. For instance,
the checklist gives a max Tq of 100% for 5 mins, or
110% for 5 seconds. Would the pilot see a rise in TOT
or transmission temps, or would the bugger just seize
or what?
TIA
MB
From memory in the Jetranger, 100 Tq = 317 SHP from the engine, which is only about 75% of the C20B's rated max power of I think 420 SHP.
Tq then is obviously a drive train limit of some sort, so you will not be overtorquing the engine but rather the drive train.
No other cockpit indications for overtorque other than the guage.
Ask an engineer what inspections/maintenance is required for an overtorque, and you will get an idea of what damage it does!
Tq then is obviously a drive train limit of some sort, so you will not be overtorquing the engine but rather the drive train.
No other cockpit indications for overtorque other than the guage.
Ask an engineer what inspections/maintenance is required for an overtorque, and you will get an idea of what damage it does!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The coyote is right, there is nothing, nada, zip...no indication at all that you're pulling 120%. You could do it all day long. Might not even damage anything unless you're in an OGE hover in a strong right crosswind (but the inspections will have to be done regardless). If a C-20B is installed, you might not even overtemp the engine at lower altitudes. That's the thing about 206's that new pilots must be aware of.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Age: 71
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They aren't standard, but there are various retrofits that effectively record or indicate an exceedance. I have seen some that indicate in both the Tq or T4 gauge. (Overtemp indicators are more common, in my experience). Others simply record the exceedance with its details for later download from a black box in the baggage bay.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Chilliwack, BC Canada
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From my distant past as a maintenance person.... Some of the areas to look at to see signs of torque ( not guaranteed indicators ) are:
RH side aft fuselage panels behind the fuel-filler cap...if the panels are all wrinkled or "oil-canned", chances are that the airframe may have seen some "torque" in it's past, or simply old age ?
Transmission upper split line, ...if the pro-seal shows some hair-lined- angled cracks and if there seems to have been a touch of movement in that joint...chances are it may have moved a mm or two under load.
Look over the mast, re paint chips, etc, The mast is actually "micrometered" for distortion in an overtorque inspection.
Generally, nothing is found during an over-torque inspection, but that's no reason to be pulling that much power. The 110 for 5 limitation should get you out of a nasty situstion, so perhaps LEARN to avoid that situation after the aircraft saves you once !
I've been to 120% spike once, (9,400 on type) and the inspections revealed nothing, the components all made full time.
RH side aft fuselage panels behind the fuel-filler cap...if the panels are all wrinkled or "oil-canned", chances are that the airframe may have seen some "torque" in it's past, or simply old age ?
Transmission upper split line, ...if the pro-seal shows some hair-lined- angled cracks and if there seems to have been a touch of movement in that joint...chances are it may have moved a mm or two under load.
Look over the mast, re paint chips, etc, The mast is actually "micrometered" for distortion in an overtorque inspection.
Generally, nothing is found during an over-torque inspection, but that's no reason to be pulling that much power. The 110 for 5 limitation should get you out of a nasty situstion, so perhaps LEARN to avoid that situation after the aircraft saves you once !
I've been to 120% spike once, (9,400 on type) and the inspections revealed nothing, the components all made full time.
Over-torquing can be done oh so easily with the 206 as well....when operating near the edge....one wee slight tug on the collective or a bit of boot on the pedal and you have done it.
Paco....how you know the tranny whines when you get near the max? Hangar talk?
Paco....how you know the tranny whines when you get near the max? Hangar talk?
I feel slightly ashamed - 407 Driver, can you point me exactly at the "Transmission upper split line . . . the pro-seal" - I think you mean the drive shaft forwards to the gearbox, but I'm not sure. Shouldn't I know that ?
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The Daylight Saving Free Zone
Posts: 733
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nr Fairy: The transmission/G-box has an upper and lower (main) case. I think 407 Driver means the joining splitline between the two when assembled.
The upper case houses the outer ring gear from which the planetary gears drive against. The torque is transferred from the upper case to the lower case and mounts, through this joint.
High torque can cause movement/twist at this joint. The proseal is a rubberized sealant used to seal the join externally and is visible. Any movement can cause the paint to crack at the join.
The upper case houses the outer ring gear from which the planetary gears drive against. The torque is transferred from the upper case to the lower case and mounts, through this joint.
High torque can cause movement/twist at this joint. The proseal is a rubberized sealant used to seal the join externally and is visible. Any movement can cause the paint to crack at the join.
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since your talking about Overtorque. Keep your eyes on those Tele-Temp strips. I have seen a few get burnt on aircraft that were at least not reported to be overtorqued, but Im sure were. They are a cheap indicator for problems. Also another sign would be some slinging of grease from the Main Drive Shaft when the seals go..This does not occur all the time. Time to say something to someone before things get messy.... 
Nr Fairy. If you need some schematics I can probably help you out via attachments or FAX..
Nr Fairy. If you need some schematics I can probably help you out via attachments or FAX..
Last edited by B Sousa; 18th Dec 2004 at 15:26.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Marsh
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I worked in the forestry spaying business with 206Bs for several years. It was common practice to fly 200 to 500 pounds over gross and pilots didn't look at the torque indicator very closely. As said above signs will start showing like the oil canning, but what gets expensive is the 1500 hour inpection on the main gearbox. The sun gear and the ring gear will be worn beyond limits long before they should.