AFI(H) to FI(H) Rumour. .
Thread Starter
AFI(H) to FI(H) Rumour. .
Quote from LASORS 2005:
----------------------------------
Removal of Supervisory Restriction
The Supervisory Restriction can be removed on the
recommendation of the supervising FI(H) once the
applicant has at least 100 hours flight instruction and, in
addition, has supervised at least 25 student solo flights.
It should be noted that supervision of a students
PPL(H) qualifying cross country flight is counted as one
flight only. Approval of first solo flights by day or night
and first solo navigation flights by day or night are
excluded.
--------------------------------
I have heard the 25 student solo flights required can be made up of separate exercises. eg. Ex 8-11 = 4 flights.
Any truth in this rumour?
----------------------------------
Removal of Supervisory Restriction
The Supervisory Restriction can be removed on the
recommendation of the supervising FI(H) once the
applicant has at least 100 hours flight instruction and, in
addition, has supervised at least 25 student solo flights.
It should be noted that supervision of a students
PPL(H) qualifying cross country flight is counted as one
flight only. Approval of first solo flights by day or night
and first solo navigation flights by day or night are
excluded.
--------------------------------
I have heard the 25 student solo flights required can be made up of separate exercises. eg. Ex 8-11 = 4 flights.
Any truth in this rumour?
If you read paragraph 2 again, I think you'll find the answer obvious! No.
A flight may and does consist of a number of exercises, but it is still ONE flight for the purpose of this rule.
There is a good reason for most apprenticeships: the gaining of as wide a general experience as possible. Realise that you have to take the time to learn: you'll be the better for it as an unrestricted FI.
A flight may and does consist of a number of exercises, but it is still ONE flight for the purpose of this rule.
There is a good reason for most apprenticeships: the gaining of as wide a general experience as possible. Realise that you have to take the time to learn: you'll be the better for it as an unrestricted FI.
Thread Starter
Not so obvious when you consider how many rules have been changed in the last few years/mths and when you've heard the rumour from a reliable source. Hence the post. .
Point taken about experience, but sending someone solo (that has already been solo) doesn't really give me much flying experience. I guess it's the bits in between. .
Point taken about experience, but sending someone solo (that has already been solo) doesn't really give me much flying experience. I guess it's the bits in between. .
Johe02
It may not give you any flying experience but it does perhaps hone your skills as far as juding whether someone is suitable for a solo on that sortie.
There must come a few times during your AFIship when an intended solo sortie doesn't happen for 'student centered' reasons. You need to be able to make those decisions and others about solo suitability in the future.
I assume that you discuss solo student assessment and suitability with your supervising FI.
Once the restriction is gone you may well be that supervising FI and sometimes the decisions are not popular but correct and safe from a teaching point of view.
My 2ps worth anyway not meant in a patronising tone like it probably read, just to provoke thought.
V.
It may not give you any flying experience but it does perhaps hone your skills as far as juding whether someone is suitable for a solo on that sortie.
There must come a few times during your AFIship when an intended solo sortie doesn't happen for 'student centered' reasons. You need to be able to make those decisions and others about solo suitability in the future.
I assume that you discuss solo student assessment and suitability with your supervising FI.
Once the restriction is gone you may well be that supervising FI and sometimes the decisions are not popular but correct and safe from a teaching point of view.
My 2ps worth anyway not meant in a patronising tone like it probably read, just to provoke thought.
V.
Last edited by VeeAny; 4th May 2005 at 21:38.
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new "trainingcomm" issued by caa would seem that johe2 is coorrect .haven't got the details in front of me ,but from memory it does use the words training exercises ?......Circuits would then count as 6 solo's 8,9,10,11 and probably 13+14.
i do hope this is not what they intended as sending a student to do circuits 5 times is not gaining you the level of experience to assess the next student
i do hope this is not what they intended as sending a student to do circuits 5 times is not gaining you the level of experience to assess the next student
Thread Starter
Thanks for that thwock - The latest TrainingCom really does say 25 air exercises. I tried to Copy an Paste but the .pdf is locked.
I wonder if this is just a typo. .
A few other changes in there too. . If anyone hasn't seen it you can download it from here
I see it's dated 1st April. . .
. . . and as if by magic my copy has just arrived in the post!
I wonder if this is just a typo. .
A few other changes in there too. . If anyone hasn't seen it you can download it from here
I see it's dated 1st April. . .
. . . and as if by magic my copy has just arrived in the post!
Last edited by Johe02; 3rd May 2005 at 16:22.
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I just reread heli trainingcom and the fact that it is listed as the 2nd of 4 long term exemptions and the wording is clearly shown as "exercises" rather than "flights" clearly implies it has changed,
it presumably wouldnt be there if nothing has changed.
if so I can see widescale abuse of this very soon, just like people were formerly tying to count the qualifying cross country as 3 flights rather than 1 because there were 3 legs.
as for the supervising FI's if it is true, expediency being what it is, they are going to feed into this so they can get people upgraded and then have the weekends off themselves, after only doing maybe 5 "flights" or so, depending on how cheeky they are.
regards
CF
it presumably wouldnt be there if nothing has changed.
if so I can see widescale abuse of this very soon, just like people were formerly tying to count the qualifying cross country as 3 flights rather than 1 because there were 3 legs.
as for the supervising FI's if it is true, expediency being what it is, they are going to feed into this so they can get people upgraded and then have the weekends off themselves, after only doing maybe 5 "flights" or so, depending on how cheeky they are.
regards
CF
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Even if you can "fiddle" the solo flights by counting each of the excercises as a solo flight to make up the magic figure of 25, the FI(R) is still required to do a min 100 hours flight instruction to get the restriction removed.
As I'm not an instructor, I'm curious to know how many flight intruction hours it would take the average new FI(R) before he/she ( as I don't want to upset the whirly girls !!!) would normally take to achieve the 25 solo student flights.
CF
As I'm not an instructor, I'm curious to know how many flight intruction hours it would take the average new FI(R) before he/she ( as I don't want to upset the whirly girls !!!) would normally take to achieve the 25 solo student flights.
CF
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Thanks guys. I'd been reading helitraining.com, trying and trying to see what had changed, and I couldn't (well, I was jetlagged 
). So they've changed "flights" to "exercises"; all is now clear.
For once I feel a bit sorry for the CAA. I suspect that this has been changed to prevent FIs doing things like trying to count the QXC as three flights. It probably never occurred to Fred Cross that anyone would think of counting one flight as half a dozen exercises!!!
Wait till the next update. The rule will prbably be a page long, incorporating lots of ifs and buts to make sure it can't be misunderstood, and in doing so, being long and incomprehensible. Till then, dare I, as an FI(R) who'd LOVE to get the restriction removed, suggest we use a bit of common sense.
). So they've changed "flights" to "exercises"; all is now clear.For once I feel a bit sorry for the CAA. I suspect that this has been changed to prevent FIs doing things like trying to count the QXC as three flights. It probably never occurred to Fred Cross that anyone would think of counting one flight as half a dozen exercises!!!
Wait till the next update. The rule will prbably be a page long, incorporating lots of ifs and buts to make sure it can't be misunderstood, and in doing so, being long and incomprehensible. Till then, dare I, as an FI(R) who'd LOVE to get the restriction removed, suggest we use a bit of common sense.
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Instruction
Evening all, that are interested
Think of the responsibility you carry when sending people solo.
These days people sue if "they" get it wrong.
A judgement on a person's flying skills is paramount.
Assessment of their mood and personality are equally important on the day.
It takes time to build up Instructional experience
and full time Instructors do have an advantage over part time Instructors in that they see far more students.
Fred Cross is trying hard to sort all the anomalies - give the chap a chance!
AFI to QHI requires a learning time. If you are lacking in appreciation of this fact you are not ready for the upgrade.
Eight years QHI experience and in excess of 100 students, I have seen many AFI's that have passed through the system and become excellent QHI's, none have bypassed the system - it works.
Blme
Think of the responsibility you carry when sending people solo.
These days people sue if "they" get it wrong.
A judgement on a person's flying skills is paramount.
Assessment of their mood and personality are equally important on the day.
It takes time to build up Instructional experience
and full time Instructors do have an advantage over part time Instructors in that they see far more students.
Fred Cross is trying hard to sort all the anomalies - give the chap a chance!
AFI to QHI requires a learning time. If you are lacking in appreciation of this fact you are not ready for the upgrade.
Eight years QHI experience and in excess of 100 students, I have seen many AFI's that have passed through the system and become excellent QHI's, none have bypassed the system - it works.
Blme
