Gazelle: Flying, operating, buying
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Gazelles
I am taking my time doing my PPL H on an EC-120, that often sits on the pad near a Gazelle.
I have yet to fly a Gazelle, but know from looking at a few accidents, that they can be trouble in inexperienced or distracted hands. Relatively low costs of ownership entice many new rotorheads to them, and their performance and reliability is top quartile. However, LTE has caught out many pilots, some fatally, and that does not need to be done at speed. Check out an AAIB report from last Autumn about just that phenomenon with a low time pilot whose brain was minutes behind his new machine.
If you have the time, fly a few different machines with and without fenestrons, and feel the rather subtle but important differences.
I'm happy with the EC120 at the moment, but might take a look at a Gazelle in a 100 hrs time!
good luck
James
I have yet to fly a Gazelle, but know from looking at a few accidents, that they can be trouble in inexperienced or distracted hands. Relatively low costs of ownership entice many new rotorheads to them, and their performance and reliability is top quartile. However, LTE has caught out many pilots, some fatally, and that does not need to be done at speed. Check out an AAIB report from last Autumn about just that phenomenon with a low time pilot whose brain was minutes behind his new machine.
If you have the time, fly a few different machines with and without fenestrons, and feel the rather subtle but important differences.
I'm happy with the EC120 at the moment, but might take a look at a Gazelle in a 100 hrs time!
good luck
James
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Mmmm ....
LTE on the Gazelle not so much ....
Rule of thumb No.1 ....
"Only use your big toes on the pedals' to avoid massive Tq fluctuations!!!
.... (certainly until you get used to it).
LTE on the Gazelle not so much ....
Rule of thumb No.1 ....
"Only use your big toes on the pedals' to avoid massive Tq fluctuations!!!
.... (certainly until you get used to it).
Join Date: Sep 2007
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What's the market like for Gazelles like right now. I notice there are a few more for sale. Is this just recession blues or are there starting to be problems on spares / running costs etc (as some of the doom sayers in earler posts werre predicting).
My interest is that I am starting to talk myself into pursuing a reckless purchase....
My interest is that I am starting to talk myself into pursuing a reckless purchase....
Last edited by generalspecific; 2nd Mar 2010 at 08:32. Reason: can't spele
Another 30 were recently sold by UK military, but I think it's too early for that to have an effect? Of these 30, I hear that they all went to one purchaser, who will make 15 airworthy and use 15 as spares sources. Longer term effect with more in the market has to be of prices coming down, my school Economics lessons tell me.
I was wondering, what made the Gazelle so better in basic performance (speed and lifting), when compared to a modern EC120?
Does the extra 2 feet in rotor diameter play a large part in it?
Does the extra 2 feet in rotor diameter play a large part in it?
Join Date: Jul 2007
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my flight instructors fly gazele, after accident with b206 there was investigation and bell representativ was there. instructors stated that they have never had such problem on gazele. i remember bell representative stated that gazzele is almost perfect helicopter!
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zlocko:
While the Gazelle has some very fine features, there are also problems unique to the Gazelle that are not present on the Bell 206. (jackstall for example)
Sadly, there is no perfect design, no perfect manufacturer, no perfect certification authority, no perfect operator and so on.
While the Gazelle has some very fine features, there are also problems unique to the Gazelle that are not present on the Bell 206. (jackstall for example)
Sadly, there is no perfect design, no perfect manufacturer, no perfect certification authority, no perfect operator and so on.
i believe they went to witham ""beware what you buy""
Last edited by 206 jock; 29th Apr 2010 at 07:50.
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MD_600
Whats the real crack with these then...?
Is it worth a bid/look, have dealt with Withams before when I got a couple of tanks (tracked types with guns) from them (didn't do 40 very well)... interesting at the time but the outcome was good fun.
Kev.
Whats the real crack with these then...?
Is it worth a bid/look, have dealt with Withams before when I got a couple of tanks (tracked types with guns) from them (didn't do 40 very well)... interesting at the time but the outcome was good fun.
Kev.
Last edited by kevin_mayes; 28th Apr 2010 at 21:13.
Someone ought to be prosecuted for fraud if these really are sold to the unsuspecting.MoD wanted to scrap them but the Treasury and DSA overruled them.All the aircraft are ex Army with unknown service stress issues,unlike the RAF and Navy machines that were restricted to training.
As ex military they cannot have a CofA so are restricted in use (e.g.No passengers or commercial ,no flight over congested areas etc )and buyers could be faced with a £500,00 bill just to overhaul the engine as most of them are either unserviceable or close to life .Neither Eurocopter or Turbomeca want to support them or take any kind of responsibility and I don't blame them.
Will all the above appear in the sale particulars? Have Withams been conned by DSA,desperate to get shot ? Who should really take the blame if unsuspecting buyers come along and are not properly advised.Would " Buyer Beware" apply under such circumstances? I don't think so.
As ex military they cannot have a CofA so are restricted in use (e.g.No passengers or commercial ,no flight over congested areas etc )and buyers could be faced with a £500,00 bill just to overhaul the engine as most of them are either unserviceable or close to life .Neither Eurocopter or Turbomeca want to support them or take any kind of responsibility and I don't blame them.
Will all the above appear in the sale particulars? Have Withams been conned by DSA,desperate to get shot ? Who should really take the blame if unsuspecting buyers come along and are not properly advised.Would " Buyer Beware" apply under such circumstances? I don't think so.
heli 1
To overhaul the engine is about £ 175k to zero it, where do you get your figures from ? Would love to know how you stress the airframe, that implies that the army pilots and maintenance people are unprofessional ? Gazelle was used as a recce and liasion heli, so was hardly overloaded !
To overhaul the engine is about £ 175k to zero it, where do you get your figures from ? Would love to know how you stress the airframe, that implies that the army pilots and maintenance people are unprofessional ? Gazelle was used as a recce and liasion heli, so was hardly overloaded !
Join Date: May 2001
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hughes 500
to overhaul the engine would cost 400,000 euros[ thats the price the mil have been paying ] but fortunately there are some 0 timed ones around circa £120,000 and less for more used ones if you know where to look
afaik the witham ones are for sale as is for £75 to 125k each, add to that £25k to £30k for overhaul costs [plus any major parts]
some of these need new engines [old ones US not time ex ],FCU,s [same as engines ] ,
to overhaul the engine would cost 400,000 euros[ thats the price the mil have been paying ] but fortunately there are some 0 timed ones around circa £120,000 and less for more used ones if you know where to look
afaik the witham ones are for sale as is for £75 to 125k each, add to that £25k to £30k for overhaul costs [plus any major parts]
some of these need new engines [old ones US not time ex ],FCU,s [same as engines ] ,
Thank you MD600 for confirming that.However the costs still don't include certain CAA mod requirements before they will issue a permit to fly .
In answer to the stress question raised by H500,Of course the Army fly professionally but their role was very different to the tame training carried out by the RAF and Navy.Quite a few rebuilds as I recall after heavy landings too !
In answer to the stress question raised by H500,Of course the Army fly professionally but their role was very different to the tame training carried out by the RAF and Navy.Quite a few rebuilds as I recall after heavy landings too !
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Greetings fellow aviation nuts,
I have been searching and searching and searching the internet for a long time for some info on gazelles and was close to giving up. I am building (and flying) a 1/7th scale 341G Blue Thunder. Please dont hate me for that lol... Its still a beautiful aircraft and what made that movie good then and STILL to this day is the fact they actually built it (actually 2 fully flyable). This is why so many movies these days suck due to all the computer generated crap that is total crap....
Anyways... there are some components i can just buy and make it fly but im trying to scale things as best i can... I am having a really tough time finding photoraphs or manuals, documents of the 341 (or similiar) rotor mast gear reduction unit and swash plate... Sure there are lots of photos on airliners.net but just not the stuff i really need.
Would any of you gazelle lovers, pilots, service guys have any photos, documents, or dimensions of the swashplate/gearbox area's....??? I will also need info for like the collective housing and lever and many other areas but for now the gearbox/transmission and swashplate are my big concerns.
a few images of the kit.
http://www.indyhelis.com/gallery/gallery012/1.jpg
http://www.indyhelis.com/gallery/gallery012/9.jpg
Thank you for your time
Dave Townsend
[email protected]
I have been searching and searching and searching the internet for a long time for some info on gazelles and was close to giving up. I am building (and flying) a 1/7th scale 341G Blue Thunder. Please dont hate me for that lol... Its still a beautiful aircraft and what made that movie good then and STILL to this day is the fact they actually built it (actually 2 fully flyable). This is why so many movies these days suck due to all the computer generated crap that is total crap....
Anyways... there are some components i can just buy and make it fly but im trying to scale things as best i can... I am having a really tough time finding photoraphs or manuals, documents of the 341 (or similiar) rotor mast gear reduction unit and swash plate... Sure there are lots of photos on airliners.net but just not the stuff i really need.
Would any of you gazelle lovers, pilots, service guys have any photos, documents, or dimensions of the swashplate/gearbox area's....??? I will also need info for like the collective housing and lever and many other areas but for now the gearbox/transmission and swashplate are my big concerns.
a few images of the kit.
http://www.indyhelis.com/gallery/gallery012/1.jpg
http://www.indyhelis.com/gallery/gallery012/9.jpg
Thank you for your time
Dave Townsend
[email protected]
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heli
I own a ex army gazelle xz299 the overhaul costs I used are accurate they are what I paid
I don't know of any specific reqirements to get a ex mil army gazelle permited that are any different to the RAF and navy ones
If anyone was to buy a aircraft that had had a bad landing I can't see that causing any extra problems either As any repairs carried out would have been carried out to the highest standard/safety and as far as costs concerned unlimited
When it comes to overstress and hard landings I think you may find it's the navy sharks and all the other training helicopters that if any, would be possible candidates, as the gaz is a tough old bird
The army and marines ones were used like GTV ,s (landrovers )
a packet of smarties to the first one who cofirms what branch of the mil in was in
I own a ex army gazelle xz299 the overhaul costs I used are accurate they are what I paid
I don't know of any specific reqirements to get a ex mil army gazelle permited that are any different to the RAF and navy ones
If anyone was to buy a aircraft that had had a bad landing I can't see that causing any extra problems either As any repairs carried out would have been carried out to the highest standard/safety and as far as costs concerned unlimited
When it comes to overstress and hard landings I think you may find it's the navy sharks and all the other training helicopters that if any, would be possible candidates, as the gaz is a tough old bird
The army and marines ones were used like GTV ,s (landrovers )
a packet of smarties to the first one who cofirms what branch of the mil in was in
Last edited by md 600 driver; 29th Apr 2010 at 19:14.