Gazelle: Flying, operating, buying
Better red than ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Appleby-in-Westmorland Cumbria England
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Its worth reading the accident reports too .....
Which machine?
Which machine?
Last edited by helicopter-redeye; 26th Jan 2005 at 14:51.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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An R44 would be more expesive to buy new but would cost less to run than a gazzelle but have flown both the Gazzelle is light years ahead of an R44 but I would look closely at the permit restrictions and maybe look at a non military one.
You cannot compare an R44 with a gazelle, like comparing a reliant robin with an Aston ! As for expense i bought a squirrel and it has cost nearly £200,000 in 18 months in unscheduled .......think hard !!
Senis Semper Fidelis
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lancashire U K
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Buy the Gazzer, and wave at the R44 as you pass him/her. two guys up here both use 342's as private carraige , both cover huge miles in the weeks and sofar as I know they really havn't had any nasty surprises, all scheduled work done at MW, who are reputed to be quite able to obtain all spares needed.
It will be more exciting than the R44 but deffo not as cheap to service!
If you want a number PM me and Ill pass it onto you>
Vfr
It will be more exciting than the R44 but deffo not as cheap to service!
If you want a number PM me and Ill pass it onto you>
Vfr
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Be carefull about the Permit restrictions.
I investigated the same purchase last year and heard a number of stories including that of one ex-mil machine being impounded by the CAA at Shoreham as the owner had turned up with his wife and kids. Aparently they do not count as 'crew'.
I investigated the same purchase last year and heard a number of stories including that of one ex-mil machine being impounded by the CAA at Shoreham as the owner had turned up with his wife and kids. Aparently they do not count as 'crew'.
I looked at the HT2/R44/B206 and decided that for what you lose on the permit (ie, no real passengers and certainly no kids), they are a lot of money, at around £160k. At around £100k, they would look much more attractive. Do ex-military Gazelles really deserve a 100% premium over a Westland Scout, just on the basis that it's faster and prettier?
I plumped for an older JetRanger: at least I can lease that back when it's sitting there doing nothing.
But never believe anybody who tells you that they are cheap to maintain and you can predict all the costs. I have my heart in my mouth every time mine goes in the shop, even if it's just for a 50 hour inspection. In my experience, every item that is getting down to its last quarter of component life, you should budget to have replaced soon. So it might have another 1250 hours left on the cards, but as soon as it's inspected....'I'm afraid it's worn out of limits on the rotor mast' or 'the coating has worn on that swashplate support' or 'the corrosion on the grips is just too much for me to work out'!
I plumped for an older JetRanger: at least I can lease that back when it's sitting there doing nothing.
But never believe anybody who tells you that they are cheap to maintain and you can predict all the costs. I have my heart in my mouth every time mine goes in the shop, even if it's just for a 50 hour inspection. In my experience, every item that is getting down to its last quarter of component life, you should budget to have replaced soon. So it might have another 1250 hours left on the cards, but as soon as it's inspected....'I'm afraid it's worn out of limits on the rotor mast' or 'the coating has worn on that swashplate support' or 'the corrosion on the grips is just too much for me to work out'!
Join Date: May 2004
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Eastern Europe
I heard a rumour that there was a source of cheap Gazelles that could be kept on an Eastern European register and flown in the UK. Anyone know anything about this?
2Sticks
2Sticks
Join Date: Feb 2003
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bought the gazelle
took the plunge, bought the gazelle!!!! 15 hours later, i know i did the right thing! great ship, different league to anything else at similar money! glad the positive encouragement outweighed
the doom and gloom lot !
cheers
yakyakyakyak
the doom and gloom lot !
cheers
yakyakyakyak
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Wanna buy a Gazelle?
Gazelle Stock Disposal Tender...
Offer Price Equiries Only
The Disposal Services Agency (DSA) of the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) is intending to dispose of up to 30 Gazelle Helicopters during the period of April 2005 to April 2006. Initial Expressions of Interest (EoI) are invited, from industry, to enter in to a Marketing Agreement for the Sales and Marketing of ex UK MoD Gazelle Helicopters.
It is envisaged that the selected Contractor will undertake refurbishment work prior to sale of the Aircraft to enhance their value and saleability. The ability of Potential Contractors in this field will be explored further at the Pre Qualification Questionnaire and Invitation to Tender stages.
The DSA will expect the Contractor to return an agreed percentage of sales realised to the UK MoD, with the retained percentage meeting the Contractors running costs and profit. However the DSA is prepared to consider other options or innovative ideas for the above requirement.
Potential Contractor 's are required to demonstrate the ability to collect the Aircraft, within an agreed time scale, and store them securely prior to completing sales.
The DSA is currently utilising E-trade technology to enhance its disposal activities and the selected Contractor will be expected to participate in this area.
It must also be noted that any potential Contractor must be able to obtain and, if successful, hold a Bank Guarantee. Value to be determined.
Reponses are required by 29 April 2005
Offer End Date: 29/4/2005
Offer Price Equiries Only
The Disposal Services Agency (DSA) of the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) is intending to dispose of up to 30 Gazelle Helicopters during the period of April 2005 to April 2006. Initial Expressions of Interest (EoI) are invited, from industry, to enter in to a Marketing Agreement for the Sales and Marketing of ex UK MoD Gazelle Helicopters.
It is envisaged that the selected Contractor will undertake refurbishment work prior to sale of the Aircraft to enhance their value and saleability. The ability of Potential Contractors in this field will be explored further at the Pre Qualification Questionnaire and Invitation to Tender stages.
The DSA will expect the Contractor to return an agreed percentage of sales realised to the UK MoD, with the retained percentage meeting the Contractors running costs and profit. However the DSA is prepared to consider other options or innovative ideas for the above requirement.
Potential Contractor 's are required to demonstrate the ability to collect the Aircraft, within an agreed time scale, and store them securely prior to completing sales.
The DSA is currently utilising E-trade technology to enhance its disposal activities and the selected Contractor will be expected to participate in this area.
It must also be noted that any potential Contractor must be able to obtain and, if successful, hold a Bank Guarantee. Value to be determined.
Reponses are required by 29 April 2005
Offer End Date: 29/4/2005
These cant be worth more than £35,000 each.
Rebuild costs, each: £50,000.
After refurb: £145,000 on the open market.
profit for contractor: £60,000/aircraft
How much does the MOD want of this? (Say 25%)
That leaves £45,000/aircraft. 20 a/c = £900,000
Tax and costs @ 60%
that leaves approx £350,000 in the back pocket.
Rebuild costs, each: £50,000.
After refurb: £145,000 on the open market.
profit for contractor: £60,000/aircraft
How much does the MOD want of this? (Say 25%)
That leaves £45,000/aircraft. 20 a/c = £900,000
Tax and costs @ 60%
that leaves approx £350,000 in the back pocket.
TC,
That presupposes being able to use all of them for sale....and being able to get the needed parts....without cannibalizing some of the airframes.....and being able to sell all 30 in a timely manner.
With the influx of 30 aircraft of the same type onto the market...that is bound to have a negative impact upon the price I should think.
That presupposes being able to use all of them for sale....and being able to get the needed parts....without cannibalizing some of the airframes.....and being able to sell all 30 in a timely manner.
With the influx of 30 aircraft of the same type onto the market...that is bound to have a negative impact upon the price I should think.
Better red than ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
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They hav'nt quite sold the last of the first tranche yet so that should keep the price down a bit.
Also a few of the first tranche have been destroyed - low hours pilots on big machine at low cost
Also a few of the first tranche have been destroyed - low hours pilots on big machine at low cost
Join Date: Jan 2004
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The first lot went by public auction where they sold for about £45000 to £75000 as seen. It was left up to the purchaser to arrange the refurb.
The second lot were sold in the same manner as this current proposal with JCM disposals handling the sales in co-operation with London Helicopter Centre. LHC did the refurbs and sold them ready to fly for £120k plus.
As noted by helicopter-redeye the last of these has been for sale for over 18 months now with no takers, so methinks there is some risk involved in taking this lot on.
There has also been one on the used market for offers around £160k for some time now with no takers.
AFAIK The permit for these is quite restrictive making them essentially a 2 seater.
Storage and transportation can't be cheap for 30 gazelles and some of them will be desert weary and in need of substantial refurb.
Now if whoever takes them starts knocking them out at £50k a piece in flying condition put me on the list - please.
The second lot were sold in the same manner as this current proposal with JCM disposals handling the sales in co-operation with London Helicopter Centre. LHC did the refurbs and sold them ready to fly for £120k plus.
As noted by helicopter-redeye the last of these has been for sale for over 18 months now with no takers, so methinks there is some risk involved in taking this lot on.
There has also been one on the used market for offers around £160k for some time now with no takers.
AFAIK The permit for these is quite restrictive making them essentially a 2 seater.
Storage and transportation can't be cheap for 30 gazelles and some of them will be desert weary and in need of substantial refurb.
Now if whoever takes them starts knocking them out at £50k a piece in flying condition put me on the list - please.
Cannot get a Cof A - Gatwick reckeons that the 3N2 engine is a different engine to the 3N1 that powers civi gazelles. Therefore the 3N2 engine has no civil certification, thus you would need a new engine - approx £ 150K let alone the different rotorhead etc etc.
Better red than ...
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On a scale of 1-10, how complex & expensive would it be to get a CofA and so avoid the permit problem
That aside, as Captain Scarletts arch enemy The Hood used to mutter in a curiously Germano-Russian accent
"Vot a machine. I must have one at aaaaaaannny corst"