Gazelle: Flying, operating, buying
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
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Do you mean this one...
MD600: yes it was 'lifter', but as you can appreciate he'd rather stay hiding incognito for the time being due to the situation
RD Rickster: we're straddling two threads now between this one and the scottish heli crash thread with this link.
Might be worth a reference in the other thread?
RD Rickster: we're straddling two threads now between this one and the scottish heli crash thread with this link.
Might be worth a reference in the other thread?
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: North West UK
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CAA restrictions on Gazelles?
Hi,
Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I heard the other day that the CAA restrict Gazelles to opearting with just 1 POB, and that this is the reason so many are registered abroad but operating in the UK.
If this is the case do the CAA grant exemptions for this for conversion training etc.
Thanks
Squadgy
Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I heard the other day that the CAA restrict Gazelles to opearting with just 1 POB, and that this is the reason so many are registered abroad but operating in the UK.
If this is the case do the CAA grant exemptions for this for conversion training etc.
Thanks
Squadgy
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Escrick York england
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i think somebody was telling you porkies
i own a ex mil gazelle and can confirm that they are not limited to one pob [ there are limitations to crew however ]
also civilian gazelles are legal with 5 pob
there are a few n reg in the uk and a few yugo reg 1 hungarian reg 1 check reg and some french i think i would be right in saying there is more g reg gazelles that all of the rest put together
steve
i own a ex mil gazelle and can confirm that they are not limited to one pob [ there are limitations to crew however ]
also civilian gazelles are legal with 5 pob
there are a few n reg in the uk and a few yugo reg 1 hungarian reg 1 check reg and some french i think i would be right in saying there is more g reg gazelles that all of the rest put together
steve
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Different rules apply to Gazelles manufactured for the civilian market which have a full C of A and ex-Mil machines which operate on Permits to Fly.
The airframes were identical, and came off the same production lines, but there were three (relatively minor) variants of the same Astazou engine. However, only two were type certificated at the time - the Mil version didn't need to be and wasn't. In consequence, ex-Mil Gazelles can't/won't be granted a C of A.
The Permits have a number of restrictions (some of which are IMHO absurd) but, as far as I know, the maximum POB under a Permit is still 4 - compared with 5 for C of A aircraft.
It's possible the maximum for Permit aircraft has been reduced to one - seems very unlikely, but anything's possible.
I fly Gazelles with a C of A so don't monitor restrictions attached to the Permits but, if no-one else gives the answer, I'll find out and post again. Sorry not to give you a definitive answer now, but I'm in a rush and haven't got time to look it up.
Tudor Owen
Just seen the above - posted while I was writing.
There's your answer.
Also, re Reg:
Some owners prefer to keep their Gazelles on the French register if they were on it when bought. They say they find life much easier with an F-reg. I haven't got any personal experience so can't comment. I don't know anyone who's changed from G to F, but that doesn't mean no-one has.)
The airframes were identical, and came off the same production lines, but there were three (relatively minor) variants of the same Astazou engine. However, only two were type certificated at the time - the Mil version didn't need to be and wasn't. In consequence, ex-Mil Gazelles can't/won't be granted a C of A.
The Permits have a number of restrictions (some of which are IMHO absurd) but, as far as I know, the maximum POB under a Permit is still 4 - compared with 5 for C of A aircraft.
It's possible the maximum for Permit aircraft has been reduced to one - seems very unlikely, but anything's possible.
I fly Gazelles with a C of A so don't monitor restrictions attached to the Permits but, if no-one else gives the answer, I'll find out and post again. Sorry not to give you a definitive answer now, but I'm in a rush and haven't got time to look it up.
Tudor Owen
Just seen the above - posted while I was writing.
There's your answer.
Also, re Reg:
Some owners prefer to keep their Gazelles on the French register if they were on it when bought. They say they find life much easier with an F-reg. I haven't got any personal experience so can't comment. I don't know anyone who's changed from G to F, but that doesn't mean no-one has.)
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 22nd Feb 2004 at 01:44.
I looked into the ex-mil Gazelles a while ago: i believe that they are still restricted to 'crew only'. This can comprise a pilot, an (unqualified) 'navigator' and up to two ground handlers.
However, there's no specification as to what a 'ground handler' can or can't be, but if you crash and have kids on board, I bet you'd find out!.
As for civilian registrations in other countires, I remember reading somewhere that SA342J variants (with the more powerful engine) can't be registerd on the G-reg: so most of those remain on the French register.
However, there's no specification as to what a 'ground handler' can or can't be, but if you crash and have kids on board, I bet you'd find out!.
As for civilian registrations in other countires, I remember reading somewhere that SA342J variants (with the more powerful engine) can't be registerd on the G-reg: so most of those remain on the French register.
Gazelle - PPL(H)
Friend of mine, ex-British military, wishes to get a PPL(H) opening the license on a Gazelle.
Any top tips for a reasonable cost? He is keen to go to 'Fast' at Thruxton - a good outfit with an excellent reputation, but funds are a bit tight, is there somewhere cheaper?
I'm a fixed-wing bod so cannot offer much advice - thanks!
Any top tips for a reasonable cost? He is keen to go to 'Fast' at Thruxton - a good outfit with an excellent reputation, but funds are a bit tight, is there somewhere cheaper?
I'm a fixed-wing bod so cannot offer much advice - thanks!
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
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The man to speak to about anything to do with Gazelle training is Al Gwilt - ex Army Air Corps display pilot etc, current TA Gazelle pilot.
I highly recommend Al Gwilt based on personal experience (flown with him many times over the years), the opinions of 4-5 Gazelle pilots I know who did their training with him, comments in Rotorheads, and his reputation in the industry.
E-mail: Al Gwilt
Mobile 0776 7614419
Using a Gazelle for training isn't going to be cheap - probably twice the cost of an R22 - but, if your friend's got the funds, he couldn't make a better choice IMHO.
Heliport
I highly recommend Al Gwilt based on personal experience (flown with him many times over the years), the opinions of 4-5 Gazelle pilots I know who did their training with him, comments in Rotorheads, and his reputation in the industry.
E-mail: Al Gwilt
Mobile 0776 7614419
Using a Gazelle for training isn't going to be cheap - probably twice the cost of an R22 - but, if your friend's got the funds, he couldn't make a better choice IMHO.
Heliport
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
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Luddite!!??!! 
The Gazelle is a wonderful helicopter.
Al Gwilt should be your friend's starting-point. I did my type conversion with him and was very impressed - superb pilot and instructor.
You don't say where your friend lives but, if Al can't help, I'm sure he'll be able to make a recommendation.
Opinions differ about whether civvy or ex-military instructors are better but, for Gazelle training, I think ex-mil is definitely the way to go.
The Gazelle is a wonderful helicopter.Al Gwilt should be your friend's starting-point. I did my type conversion with him and was very impressed - superb pilot and instructor.
You don't say where your friend lives but, if Al can't help, I'm sure he'll be able to make a recommendation.
Opinions differ about whether civvy or ex-military instructors are better but, for Gazelle training, I think ex-mil is definitely the way to go.
I seem to remember Andrew Harvey does Gazelles, down in deepest Devon, if that's closer. Try http://www.ahhelicopters.co.uk/entry_page.htm
And I'm not sure FAST has a Gazelle bod on the books any more, with Ian and Mike both gone.
And I've just noticed the comment "but funds are a bit tight, is there somewhere cheaper" - better to spend a bit more on kwality training than stuff it in not long after the type rating's finished.
And I'm not sure FAST has a Gazelle bod on the books any more, with Ian and Mike both gone.
And I've just noticed the comment "but funds are a bit tight, is there somewhere cheaper" - better to spend a bit more on kwality training than stuff it in not long after the type rating's finished.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: AUSTRALIA
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gazelle 341 g
I am seeking advice and comment on a Gazelle341 G I am looking at that requires a replacement engine Astazou111a Cost and availabilityof engine. Ship has been stored in coastal enviroment since engine u/s in 1990. MRGB borescope ok. Heads up on any traps with Gazelle airframe? 73 model 2200 hrs Thanks in advance Helibiz
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
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The Gazelle is becoming increasingly difficult to support these days fundementally due to the difficulty in getting hold of spare parts and major assemblies. If you can get hold of these items, they will be extremely expensive. A zero-time Astazou IIIA could set you back £150k if you can find one at all.
You need to check on the time available on the head, MRGB, TRGB and IGB. Pay particular attention to the recently introduced calendar life on these items. Whilst you may have plenty of hours remaining, it is possible that they are now time expired. Also, check that the tie bars have been recently changed (unlikely if the machine you are considering has been u/s cince 1990). Additionally, depending upon which hydraulic pack you have fitted, it is entirely possible that the bladder within the reservoir has perished.
An obvious point, perhaps, but as you are in a coastal area, a thorough inspection of the frame for corrosion is a must. You are also checking for the corrosive effects of any bird dropppings that may now adorn this machine.
This list is not exhaustive which brings me to my final offering. Before parting with any cash, get a thorough survey and inspection carried out by someone who really knows the Gazelle. A few hundred dollars spent here could save you thousands later in terms of money, angst and embarrassment.
You need to check on the time available on the head, MRGB, TRGB and IGB. Pay particular attention to the recently introduced calendar life on these items. Whilst you may have plenty of hours remaining, it is possible that they are now time expired. Also, check that the tie bars have been recently changed (unlikely if the machine you are considering has been u/s cince 1990). Additionally, depending upon which hydraulic pack you have fitted, it is entirely possible that the bladder within the reservoir has perished.
An obvious point, perhaps, but as you are in a coastal area, a thorough inspection of the frame for corrosion is a must. You are also checking for the corrosive effects of any bird dropppings that may now adorn this machine.
This list is not exhaustive which brings me to my final offering. Before parting with any cash, get a thorough survey and inspection carried out by someone who really knows the Gazelle. A few hundred dollars spent here could save you thousands later in terms of money, angst and embarrassment.
Steve,
I've got a copy of Gazelle Maintenance Manual, Chapter 10, Parking & Blade Folding sitting on my desk for you! Send me an e mail or fax number, and I'll send it on to you.
I've got a copy of Gazelle Maintenance Manual, Chapter 10, Parking & Blade Folding sitting on my desk for you! Send me an e mail or fax number, and I'll send it on to you.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: midlands
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gazelle ht.2! am i mad
very close to buying a permit gazelle as a personal means of transport and a fun machine. happy with the component times remaining and all the known costs ie initial capital,insurance,p &l,fuel,30 day,50hr,annual and bi annual and permit restrictions.
however, still a little hesitant in respect of the unsheduled maint costs ! i am reliably informed this is a good example and the expensive items should go to time ! and therefore there shouldnt be too many costly shocks.. Are there any private owners out there with sufficient positive ownership experiences to convince me i am doing the right thing or "am i mad"
thanks in anticipation .
y y y
however, still a little hesitant in respect of the unsheduled maint costs ! i am reliably informed this is a good example and the expensive items should go to time ! and therefore there shouldnt be too many costly shocks.. Are there any private owners out there with sufficient positive ownership experiences to convince me i am doing the right thing or "am i mad"
thanks in anticipation .
y y y