Becoming a Police Pilot
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Port of Spain, Trinidad & Tobago
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
UK Police Pilots Salaries?
Just a question for those in the know out there!
What is the kind of salary that a pilot can begin to expect when flying for a UK air support unit. Has there been any discussion of salary reviews in lieu of the North Sea movement?
thanks!
What is the kind of salary that a pilot can begin to expect when flying for a UK air support unit. Has there been any discussion of salary reviews in lieu of the North Sea movement?
thanks!
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Last I heard, PAS were paying approx. £30k+, McAlpine £31-32+, Bond £33+ All figures -ish.
As to pay reviews, I don't know, but how are they going to manage to compare with a co-pilot on the North Sea going from 37-39k pre-salary increase to 54-57k post 47% pay rise?
As to pay reviews, I don't know, but how are they going to manage to compare with a co-pilot on the North Sea going from 37-39k pre-salary increase to 54-57k post 47% pay rise?
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fat Freddy & Ally,
The figures that you give are in the Ball-park. Pay reviews are in-line with inflation or less - they sometimes happen and sometimes not!!! There is no comparison with the north sea boys and girls - they have a union to sort it out for them, individuals may or may not have membership in the police world, but i am not aware of anyone using this as alever to extract more pay!!
FLIR
The figures that you give are in the Ball-park. Pay reviews are in-line with inflation or less - they sometimes happen and sometimes not!!! There is no comparison with the north sea boys and girls - they have a union to sort it out for them, individuals may or may not have membership in the police world, but i am not aware of anyone using this as alever to extract more pay!!
FLIR
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FLIR,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all ASU operations in the UK are flown VFR.
How many Police pilots have current Instrument Ratings?
The North Sea boys are all Instrument Rated and this is reflected in their salaries.
As an aside - the Met Police used to fly IFR machines and this was stopped when they changed types. Bristow (IFR) pilots flew their Bell 222's and probably one of the reasons they lost the contract was pilot's salaries.
Perhaps you Police boys should think about putting up a case for IFR status. Think how it would reduce your operating minimums and provide that additional bolt hole when you're out on the ground looking for that Misper and the wx is closing in.
Of course you'd have to persuade the Police Authority to re-equip the aircraft with IFR fit!!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all ASU operations in the UK are flown VFR.
How many Police pilots have current Instrument Ratings?
The North Sea boys are all Instrument Rated and this is reflected in their salaries.
As an aside - the Met Police used to fly IFR machines and this was stopped when they changed types. Bristow (IFR) pilots flew their Bell 222's and probably one of the reasons they lost the contract was pilot's salaries.
Perhaps you Police boys should think about putting up a case for IFR status. Think how it would reduce your operating minimums and provide that additional bolt hole when you're out on the ground looking for that Misper and the wx is closing in.
Of course you'd have to persuade the Police Authority to re-equip the aircraft with IFR fit!!
Twist grip, I suspect you don,t know what you are talking about, OR your'e baiting (because of your number of previous entries)!
Anyway who cares, lets stir it up and get excited for a change:
Pay differentials for IR pilots average £1000-£2000. Not 10,000-20,000 as is the differential on the N.Sea.
There are IR pilots in our industry. There will be many more in the next few months when a well known service provider completes its programme of IR conversions.
There has never been a demand for IR in the industry because if you can't see what you're doing you're wasting everybodys time!
You can't simply go "inadvertent IMC" because you are IR'd and just pop into the nearest diversion, as you well know!!!
You need to plan to go IFR. When you do that life in a light twin with minimum fuel reserves becomes very difficult to calculate.
All future 135's and 902's are being purchased as SPIFR as standard.[902 when cleared which is not far off].
Force areas don't always supply workable MSA's or close diversion open 24hrs a day with nav aids. None of the a/c are cleared for icing.
Need I go on, or have I bitten off enough bait???
Anyway who cares, lets stir it up and get excited for a change:
Pay differentials for IR pilots average £1000-£2000. Not 10,000-20,000 as is the differential on the N.Sea.
There are IR pilots in our industry. There will be many more in the next few months when a well known service provider completes its programme of IR conversions.
There has never been a demand for IR in the industry because if you can't see what you're doing you're wasting everybodys time!
You can't simply go "inadvertent IMC" because you are IR'd and just pop into the nearest diversion, as you well know!!!
You need to plan to go IFR. When you do that life in a light twin with minimum fuel reserves becomes very difficult to calculate.
All future 135's and 902's are being purchased as SPIFR as standard.[902 when cleared which is not far off].
Force areas don't always supply workable MSA's or close diversion open 24hrs a day with nav aids. None of the a/c are cleared for icing.
Need I go on, or have I bitten off enough bait???
Just Dropped In
Join Date: May 2001
Location: um....er.....
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have to say I'm with TC on this one!
I have a current IR. So? they get more because they regularly fly IMC two pilot? Fine. I regularly fly nights single pilot. I do Instrument training every 90 days....um where is the difference?
Our limits for VFR won't go any lower they can't. We need to be below cloud to do our job.....you can only allow that cloud to be so low....an IR would make no difference.
Yuck I hate the taste of bait!
I have a current IR. So? they get more because they regularly fly IMC two pilot? Fine. I regularly fly nights single pilot. I do Instrument training every 90 days....um where is the difference?
Our limits for VFR won't go any lower they can't. We need to be below cloud to do our job.....you can only allow that cloud to be so low....an IR would make no difference.
Yuck I hate the taste of bait!
Hi guys, just looking in from the Military pilots' page and was verrry interested at the wages quoted for N Sea pilots by ally. Is this for real? I am thinking of bailing out of the army pretty soon as I am languishing in a desk job with 1200 hours and a lot of time in NI under my belt. I'd really like to go HEMS but I believe you need a lot more hours than I have, but with that kind of cash for N sea, it would make it more attractive.
Or is it for captains only?
Any more info, or any advice? I'd be really grateful as my current job stinks - last year I was flying around S Armagh having the time and job of my life. Now its a big decision whether I inspect my fingernails or flick paperclips across the room.
Thanks guys!
Or is it for captains only?
Any more info, or any advice? I'd be really grateful as my current job stinks - last year I was flying around S Armagh having the time and job of my life. Now its a big decision whether I inspect my fingernails or flick paperclips across the room.
Thanks guys!
Guest
Posts: n/a
It is most unlikely that police pilots are going to comand the sort of salaries that N Sea pilots get. In the end it will be down to 'where does the money come from'
The N Sea pilots are providing a service to the Oil Companies and contractors that is an indespensible part of the whole offshore operation. The Oil Companies need those helicopters and have more than enough dosh to pay the current (or an increased and more realistic) rate.
The Police Helicopters are funded by the local Police Authority, these are organisations that are looking to save money wherever they can, with most of them having recently funded new and expensive helicopters, they are unlikely to want to shell out even more money to pilots (they all imagine we get about 50K anyway!).
So that leaves Police pilot payrises to come from one source. The operating companies, and as they all say that they make no money from police aviation I suppose its going to be a long wait.
Yours, the devils advocate
To Christopher Robin
If you don't object to the idea of living in Scotland, and you don't want to fly fixed wing give the N Sea a go it isn't quite as bad as people would have you believe
The N Sea pilots are providing a service to the Oil Companies and contractors that is an indespensible part of the whole offshore operation. The Oil Companies need those helicopters and have more than enough dosh to pay the current (or an increased and more realistic) rate.
The Police Helicopters are funded by the local Police Authority, these are organisations that are looking to save money wherever they can, with most of them having recently funded new and expensive helicopters, they are unlikely to want to shell out even more money to pilots (they all imagine we get about 50K anyway!).
So that leaves Police pilot payrises to come from one source. The operating companies, and as they all say that they make no money from police aviation I suppose its going to be a long wait.
Yours, the devils advocate
To Christopher Robin
If you don't object to the idea of living in Scotland, and you don't want to fly fixed wing give the N Sea a go it isn't quite as bad as people would have you believe
Join Date: May 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think its time to stir up this I/R debate a little more. I think its a good idea for police pilots to have an I/R, why? Many reasons. Firstly nobody is suggesting that we look for bad guys while still in cloud (which is the usual uneducated answer given when this topic is mentioned):MAD: An I/R is more than just flying procedures and an approach at the other end. The ability to fly accuratly and safely in IMC, having the confidence to climb up and recover for an approach is the only way as an industry we are going to stop or at least help prevent weather related accidents. We have all been caught out at some time or other and who hasn't come back, landed and thought "got away with that one!" We are now in the 21st century, SPIFR helicopters are coming so why shouldn't the pilots be similarly rated? As for my own consortium area we have a number of 24hr approaches, so recoveries will not be a problem for us. The 30mins every 3 months? To be safe, no where near enough. Scud running should be kept to the minimum if not another weather related accident is inevitable. 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Retirement home..
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I used to hold military master green ratings on both rotary and fixed wing. Since leaving the services I have flown rotary with an IR (single pilot IFR) and latterly without one because the aircraft I flew in the police role was not certificated for IFR and my employer was not interested in keeping me current. I am now about to work up to an IR again, this time for a different employer.
I am not actually convinced that having an IR will make the police job any safer or more effective for many experienced pilots although the instrument training is very much welcomed. It will no doubt become more of an issue now that pilots with less instrument experience are being accepted by pilotage providers and new, more IFR capable aircraft are introduced.
It remains that with current technology the only effective way of carrying out the police role is to stay VMC (visual contact) and also the safest bearing in mind that many police units are located well away from airfields and have no CAA recognised letdown available in the vicinity.
Weather limits are already about as low as they can be, bearing in mind that the crew do need to operate below cloud once on scene.
However, I say bring in the IR asap. It should help to reinforce the case for a long awaited increase in salary for police pilots, to bring this part of the industry into line with others.
SC
I am not actually convinced that having an IR will make the police job any safer or more effective for many experienced pilots although the instrument training is very much welcomed. It will no doubt become more of an issue now that pilots with less instrument experience are being accepted by pilotage providers and new, more IFR capable aircraft are introduced.
It remains that with current technology the only effective way of carrying out the police role is to stay VMC (visual contact) and also the safest bearing in mind that many police units are located well away from airfields and have no CAA recognised letdown available in the vicinity.
Weather limits are already about as low as they can be, bearing in mind that the crew do need to operate below cloud once on scene.
However, I say bring in the IR asap. It should help to reinforce the case for a long awaited increase in salary for police pilots, to bring this part of the industry into line with others.
SC
Semirigid: I sense from reading your input, you might be one of those who pushes it maybe a little too far at times when it comes to bad weather. I don't want to tempt fate, but in my 7 years experience and 1000's of launches, I can honestly say, I have never come back thinking it was a close shave - weather wise. There is/should never be an occasion when there isn't an escape route (even landing in a field like i did last week) available when doing this job in accordance with the POM weather minima. Doesn't impress the bobbies, for one!
After all none of the jobs are worth CFIT
I would suggest that a smug IR pilot might operate closer to the weather minima or beyond because of his over estimated opinion of his abilities
At the end of the day an IR is an expensive commodity in the police world when one considers the initial outlay and currency costs not I suspect in the interests of best value when you do a statistical analysis of the subject.
What mayhappen, is that service providers maypersuade a less seasoned police force to adopt the policy in the interests of technical progressand others will follow. One of the extremely few benefits of contract pilotage
Think of the revenue stream for the suppliers then
But I could not possibly comment
This current shortage of pilots might serve to remind our employers that it's not just IR's that need addressing!
Go direct employment if you want decent remuneration.
After all none of the jobs are worth CFIT
I would suggest that a smug IR pilot might operate closer to the weather minima or beyond because of his over estimated opinion of his abilities
At the end of the day an IR is an expensive commodity in the police world when one considers the initial outlay and currency costs not I suspect in the interests of best value when you do a statistical analysis of the subject.
What mayhappen, is that service providers maypersuade a less seasoned police force to adopt the policy in the interests of technical progressand others will follow. One of the extremely few benefits of contract pilotage
Think of the revenue stream for the suppliers then
But I could not possibly comment
This current shortage of pilots might serve to remind our employers that it's not just IR's that need addressing!
Go direct employment if you want decent remuneration.
Just Dropped In
Join Date: May 2001
Location: um....er.....
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TC- well said that man!
The PAOM forbids IMC in Police Aircraft, so landing in a field is the preffered alternative.
As for Police Pilot I/R's & currency hmmmm.... I agree that 30mins in 90 days isn't enough in the 'real world' just in case....but as the rules I operate under forbid IMC how do you argue that point?
SPIFR machines are surely gonna change that... from a personal point of view, I hope so! But in the meantime.....
As for salaries...agreed! Police Authorities are very unlikely to ever get near coughing up North Sea salaries. So each to their own...I don't get paid as well as North Sea drivers but, having flown the North Sea, I'm happier with my present lot in life!
The PAOM forbids IMC in Police Aircraft, so landing in a field is the preffered alternative.
As for Police Pilot I/R's & currency hmmmm.... I agree that 30mins in 90 days isn't enough in the 'real world' just in case....but as the rules I operate under forbid IMC how do you argue that point?
SPIFR machines are surely gonna change that... from a personal point of view, I hope so! But in the meantime.....
As for salaries...agreed! Police Authorities are very unlikely to ever get near coughing up North Sea salaries. So each to their own...I don't get paid as well as North Sea drivers but, having flown the North Sea, I'm happier with my present lot in life!
Join Date: May 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TC & Roofus I take your points, but firstly TC I do not think that I push it to far, In fact I have often been accused of the opposite! And yes I have landed in fields and completed the subsequent voyage report! But having held an I/R for some time, with the average experience level of police pilots going down due to various factors, SPIFR machines coming, why not qualify the pilots? Will the Police Federation stand by if another weather related accident happens. I think not, and neither do my collegues at work. And to pick up on one final point, if IMC is not allowed, with SPIFR machines in a number of consortiums now, surely pilots will not fly IMC just because the machine is capable? That is asking for trouble!
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmm - Police Authorities paying for Pilotage - could be a whole new topic - "Directly employing pilots" - I wonder how much the likes of McAlpine / PAS etc are charging the P.A's for the pilots ??