Balpa
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Balpa
With all that is happening in the North Sea helicopter companies, should I become a member of BALPA. Is it worth it?
I am not a big fan of trade unions having seen what happened to the miners in the eighties, the dockers in the seventies and the firemen more recently.
I suppose the question I really want to know the answer to is :
Is BALPA going to help secure job security and a long term future?
I am not a big fan of trade unions having seen what happened to the miners in the eighties, the dockers in the seventies and the firemen more recently.
I suppose the question I really want to know the answer to is :
Is BALPA going to help secure job security and a long term future?
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Droopystop,
If you're in UK remember that the 2 largest employers are CHC/Scotia and Bristow, which I believe are both unionised companies where BALPA negotiates pay and conditions of service.
Then look on this forum at the threads on CHC and Bristow redundancies and North Sea pay.
These should enable you to answer your question:
It's also worth asking anybody you know who is a junior or mid-seniority pilot with Bristow what they think about what's happening with their pension scheme now, and if BALPA has any influence in that regard.
In most brances of aviation your job security and long term future are only guaranteed for the period of notice stipulated in your contract of employment.
Maybe I'm just an old cynic
If you're in UK remember that the 2 largest employers are CHC/Scotia and Bristow, which I believe are both unionised companies where BALPA negotiates pay and conditions of service.
Then look on this forum at the threads on CHC and Bristow redundancies and North Sea pay.
These should enable you to answer your question:
Is BALPA going to help secure job security and a long term future?
It's also worth asking anybody you know who is a junior or mid-seniority pilot with Bristow what they think about what's happening with their pension scheme now, and if BALPA has any influence in that regard.
In most brances of aviation your job security and long term future are only guaranteed for the period of notice stipulated in your contract of employment.
Maybe I'm just an old cynic
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Come on the Chopper,
I think a lot of us would be interested on views on Balpa and the future of the North Sea from an old hand.
From an outsider looking in its not looking good, short, medium and long term.
I want to be prooved wrong.
I think a lot of us would be interested on views on Balpa and the future of the North Sea from an old hand.
From an outsider looking in its not looking good, short, medium and long term.
I want to be prooved wrong.
Avoid imitations
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I fully intended to join BALPA about 7 or 8 years ago. I obtained all the application forms and watched with "some interest" as BALPA senior reps helped negotiate a new set of terms and conditions with a North Sea employer.
So good that a certain senior BALPA rep was taken on in a management capacity by that same employer shortly afterwards.......
The BALPA forms went in the bin.
So good that a certain senior BALPA rep was taken on in a management capacity by that same employer shortly afterwards.......
The BALPA forms went in the bin.
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BALPA
The clue is in the last letter of the acronim (Balpa), it stands for association. Not one person but all its members and like every other club in the world there will be those that have thier own agenda but on the whole BALPA is very effective when its members get involved, and conversly ineffective when some people spit teddy in the corner just because of some percieved personal gain, by probably somone who in the past has decided to get of thier arse and do somthing about the terms and conditions that they or thier colleagues were enduring, and not just whine all day in the crew room.
I can recommend Balpa to all who ask and would add that the many agreements between Balpa and our management are of mutual benifit.
Have a look at the Bond pay scale co-jo,s £30-40k
Captains start at £60k and rise to £75+ with North sea command experience. do you think that thay would be paid this if it hadn't have been for the expertease that balpa had at its disposal when negotiating with Scotia CHC.
Balpa is only as good as its members and at the moment it good.
The clue is in the last letter of the acronim (Balpa), it stands for association. Not one person but all its members and like every other club in the world there will be those that have thier own agenda but on the whole BALPA is very effective when its members get involved, and conversly ineffective when some people spit teddy in the corner just because of some percieved personal gain, by probably somone who in the past has decided to get of thier arse and do somthing about the terms and conditions that they or thier colleagues were enduring, and not just whine all day in the crew room.
I can recommend Balpa to all who ask and would add that the many agreements between Balpa and our management are of mutual benifit.
Have a look at the Bond pay scale co-jo,s £30-40k
Captains start at £60k and rise to £75+ with North sea command experience. do you think that thay would be paid this if it hadn't have been for the expertease that balpa had at its disposal when negotiating with Scotia CHC.
Balpa is only as good as its members and at the moment it good.
Avoid imitations
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MaxNg,
If it's me you refer to,
, but I didn't "spit the teddy", or even throw my dummy. I was invited to join BALPA some years back, on my departure from HM Forces but before I parted with my cash I did some research. At the time, it seemed to me I shouldn't spend money on an organisation that apparently allowed it's senior members to feather their own nests, possibly at the expense of other paying members.
As it happened, the company I went to work for didn't recognise BALPA in any event so there would have been little direct benefit to myself at the time.
Droopystop,
I suggest that you type "BALPA" and search previous "rotorheads" threads. "Own goal by BALPA" refers to the sort of thing that put me off joining. The incident on that thread isn't the one I referred to but a later one. The archive now doesn't seem to go far enough back in time.
I'm certainly not saying that the BALPA of today is better or worse, just that it hasn't suited me to join as an individual. I keep an open mind!
If it's me you refer to,
, but I didn't "spit the teddy", or even throw my dummy. I was invited to join BALPA some years back, on my departure from HM Forces but before I parted with my cash I did some research. At the time, it seemed to me I shouldn't spend money on an organisation that apparently allowed it's senior members to feather their own nests, possibly at the expense of other paying members. As it happened, the company I went to work for didn't recognise BALPA in any event so there would have been little direct benefit to myself at the time.
Droopystop,
I suggest that you type "BALPA" and search previous "rotorheads" threads. "Own goal by BALPA" refers to the sort of thing that put me off joining. The incident on that thread isn't the one I referred to but a later one. The archive now doesn't seem to go far enough back in time.
I'm certainly not saying that the BALPA of today is better or worse, just that it hasn't suited me to join as an individual. I keep an open mind!
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S76heavy
If a company losses a contract that forms some 40% of you're revenue stream then you would expect ANY company to face the fact that redundances are inevitable, But as yet only 6 pilots have been made redundant and the rest have taken a early retirement package and a generouse one at that, many more jobs would have been lost if it were not for the pressure brought about by Balpa, please dont be fooled as to why Scotia lost the BP work it was purely a function of the bean counters wanting a third operator back on the North sea.
Check out CHC's website and get some insight into how they are going forward, just Bought Schriener and it's subsidaries, Keep an eye out for Bristows for if they pull out it will be back to two operators on the NS and the oil companies will yet again be forced to pay rates that allow for investment and wages to keep the pilots with experience gainfully employed.
Why do you think we still have a final salery scheme, BALPA
Got to go now my driver is have trouble parking the Bently
Edited for red wine stains and spellling
If a company losses a contract that forms some 40% of you're revenue stream then you would expect ANY company to face the fact that redundances are inevitable, But as yet only 6 pilots have been made redundant and the rest have taken a early retirement package and a generouse one at that, many more jobs would have been lost if it were not for the pressure brought about by Balpa, please dont be fooled as to why Scotia lost the BP work it was purely a function of the bean counters wanting a third operator back on the North sea.
Check out CHC's website and get some insight into how they are going forward, just Bought Schriener and it's subsidaries, Keep an eye out for Bristows for if they pull out it will be back to two operators on the NS and the oil companies will yet again be forced to pay rates that allow for investment and wages to keep the pilots with experience gainfully employed.
Why do you think we still have a final salery scheme, BALPA
Got to go now my driver is have trouble parking the Bently
Edited for red wine stains and spellling
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Thanks for all the comments. Interesting points to ponder.
Still not sure I'll get value for money, but its seems that I'm expecting too much from BALPA. I was hoping they were taking a more long term view, but that is obviously not the case. However it seems that BALPA succeed at getting some terms and conditions sorted.
I wonder if BALPA is more successful with some employers than others. Do BALPA have a better relationship with Scotia than Bond or Bristow?
Still not sure I'll get value for money, but its seems that I'm expecting too much from BALPA. I was hoping they were taking a more long term view, but that is obviously not the case. However it seems that BALPA succeed at getting some terms and conditions sorted.
I wonder if BALPA is more successful with some employers than others. Do BALPA have a better relationship with Scotia than Bond or Bristow?
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Droopystop,
Balpa will do nothing for you unless you and your colleagues are prepared to put in a lot of effort. Basically, at company level Balpa consists of a Company Council who are all democratically elected volunteers. These are the people who will meet with company representatives on whatever business you choose. Balpa head office will supply expert guidance in the form of professional negotiators, legal eagles etc., to keep you within the law, but the direction you take is down to you, the workforce, no-one else. No agreement can be ratified without your approval. The North Sea pay dispute was handled on those terms. The workforce told the CC and the Association negotiator what they wanted from the company; they then went to the negotiating table and were able to present us with an offer from the company. It was rejected by us, to cut a long story short we were eventually able to come to an agreement with the company, which we, the members accepted. So if a bad deal had been negotiated it would have been our own fault for allowing it to happen.
Maxng,
Totally agree with you, and would you ask your driver not to block my Aston Martin when he parks in the company car park?
Power to the people,
Chopperman.
Balpa will do nothing for you unless you and your colleagues are prepared to put in a lot of effort. Basically, at company level Balpa consists of a Company Council who are all democratically elected volunteers. These are the people who will meet with company representatives on whatever business you choose. Balpa head office will supply expert guidance in the form of professional negotiators, legal eagles etc., to keep you within the law, but the direction you take is down to you, the workforce, no-one else. No agreement can be ratified without your approval. The North Sea pay dispute was handled on those terms. The workforce told the CC and the Association negotiator what they wanted from the company; they then went to the negotiating table and were able to present us with an offer from the company. It was rejected by us, to cut a long story short we were eventually able to come to an agreement with the company, which we, the members accepted. So if a bad deal had been negotiated it would have been our own fault for allowing it to happen.
Maxng,
Totally agree with you, and would you ask your driver not to block my Aston Martin when he parks in the company car park?
Power to the people,
Chopperman.
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Max Ng,
Glad to see you edited your last post for spelling errors - were you taking them out or putting them in?
I notice you say
I think Bristow Helicopters is also a BALPA company these days, isn't it (despite a lot of early resistance from the company)? I think they have either just lost or are losing their final salary scheme. What has BALPA done about that?
Glad to see you edited your last post for spelling errors - were you taking them out or putting them in?
I notice you say
Why do you think we still have a final salery scheme, BALPA
And just in time for the festive season Bristow has announced that with immediate effect Loss of Licence pay will be subject to income tax and national insurance contributions.
Does that make you sick or what?
Does that make you sick or what?
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Not only that, but a friend (and he's as nervous as a Turkey before Christmas, I might add) showed me their redundancy package and it stinks. So at the moment, I am not too impressed..
The loss of licence issue is nothing to do with the company. It is the grasping taxman who has deemed that it is a benefit in kind and therefore subject to tax. We at Scotia were clobbered last year for this despite a valiant effort to overturn the taxman's decision.
I wonder if that wonderful first minister Mcleish had his contributions to his £34000 pension (about £1,000,000 paid by the taxpayer) taxed as a benefit in kind?
HF
I wonder if that wonderful first minister Mcleish had his contributions to his £34000 pension (about £1,000,000 paid by the taxpayer) taxed as a benefit in kind?
HF
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TomBola,
There is very little anyone can do to save final salary schemes as current government legislations allows companies to legally close them.
thechopper,
CHC Scotia has a similar problem which the association has been fighting for some time. The payment of tax on a loss of licence payment depends on a couple of criteria-
If the loss of licence payment is made by the insurance company directly to the employee, then, no tax is payable. However, if the payment is made via the company, then, tax is payable unless the employee has paid tax on the amount of the premium paid for the insurance (which is what CHC Scotia pilots are having to do). These are Inland revenue requirements.
It would be easier for all concerned (the company would save on national Insurance payments) if the insurance was paid directly to the employee, but, again this is not possible due I believe to government fears of corruption, money laundering, etc.
An immense amount of work has been done by Balpa members on these two subjects, both at head office and at company level. It has been researched thoroughly and is still an ongoing topic.
Chopperman.
There is very little anyone can do to save final salary schemes as current government legislations allows companies to legally close them.
thechopper,
CHC Scotia has a similar problem which the association has been fighting for some time. The payment of tax on a loss of licence payment depends on a couple of criteria-
If the loss of licence payment is made by the insurance company directly to the employee, then, no tax is payable. However, if the payment is made via the company, then, tax is payable unless the employee has paid tax on the amount of the premium paid for the insurance (which is what CHC Scotia pilots are having to do). These are Inland revenue requirements.
It would be easier for all concerned (the company would save on national Insurance payments) if the insurance was paid directly to the employee, but, again this is not possible due I believe to government fears of corruption, money laundering, etc.
An immense amount of work has been done by Balpa members on these two subjects, both at head office and at company level. It has been researched thoroughly and is still an ongoing topic.
Chopperman.
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RE: Tax on Loss of Licence
I am a CC rep for an airline, nosing around on other sites I saw this and have some info that might interest on this subject.
We negotiated a new lol policy a few months ago and, at the time, found out that it must be taxed as a benefit in kind.
We too tried everything possible to get away from paying this tax.
I have it in writing from the tax man that the company can settle the tax due for its employees, therefore leaving no tax liability for the individual.
Obviously this means the company paying a bit more for your cover. However, as we feel that for this to be a genuine part of ones employment package it should not cost an individual anything, we are campaigning for our company to do so.(currently unsuccessfully). We also suspect that the company may be able to offset the tax against other things and will not actually pay as much as the individuals anyway.
If any of you want any information then let me know via email or PN.
Regards
I am a CC rep for an airline, nosing around on other sites I saw this and have some info that might interest on this subject.
We negotiated a new lol policy a few months ago and, at the time, found out that it must be taxed as a benefit in kind.
We too tried everything possible to get away from paying this tax.
I have it in writing from the tax man that the company can settle the tax due for its employees, therefore leaving no tax liability for the individual.
Obviously this means the company paying a bit more for your cover. However, as we feel that for this to be a genuine part of ones employment package it should not cost an individual anything, we are campaigning for our company to do so.(currently unsuccessfully). We also suspect that the company may be able to offset the tax against other things and will not actually pay as much as the individuals anyway.
If any of you want any information then let me know via email or PN.
Regards
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BALPA
In response to Droopystop's original post: I also was not a great fan of unions but with the quality of management in the North Sea at the moment, pilots need all the support they can get!
The current problems at Bristow would be far worse were it not for the intervention of BALPA.
If a company wants to make pilots redundant, they will! It is the union's job to try to mitigate the numbers and secure the best deal for those unlucky enough to still be chopped. But no matter how good the negotiators are, progress can only be made IF the company wants it. At Bristow, the real reason for the redundancies is to force those threatened for go to Nigeria, accepting a huge pay cut just to get shot at or kidnapped!
If you are lucky enough to work for an 'enlightened' employer, you may not need BALPA's help. If you are like the rest of us, you need all the help you can get!!
The current problems at Bristow would be far worse were it not for the intervention of BALPA.
If a company wants to make pilots redundant, they will! It is the union's job to try to mitigate the numbers and secure the best deal for those unlucky enough to still be chopped. But no matter how good the negotiators are, progress can only be made IF the company wants it. At Bristow, the real reason for the redundancies is to force those threatened for go to Nigeria, accepting a huge pay cut just to get shot at or kidnapped!
If you are lucky enough to work for an 'enlightened' employer, you may not need BALPA's help. If you are like the rest of us, you need all the help you can get!!
