No Police helicopter for Toronto
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No Police helicopter for Toronto
Globe&Mail report
Toromto Police Chief Julian Fantino lashed out at the provincial government yesterday after hearing it had cancelled the $1-million promised in the old Tory budget for a police helicopter.
"I always thought the greater good should prevail," Chief Fantino said in an interview yesterday. "I didn't think the proposition of a helicopter for the Toronto Police Service is any less valid just because a different stripe of government sits in the seat of power at Queen's Park."
Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services Monte Kwinter said yesterday that the money for the helicopter had to be cancelled when the new Liberal government discovered it had inherited a $5.6-billion deficit.
Mr. Kwinter added that he thinks the helicopter is unlikely to be a priority, even after the books are in better shape.
"When we do start flowing money, there are going to have to be some choices," he said. "Do you want the helicopter, or do you want officers?"
Mr. Kwinter said it will be especially difficult to convince his fellow cabinet ministers to pay the $1-million for a helicopter if Toronto police don't even have any money slated for it within their own budget.
Chief Fantino said he knew there was "no hope of me pushing that [expense] through the city council with the pressures they are facing," and that he had instead been working to raise private funds to augment the $1-million coming from the province.
"[The helicopter is] a fundamental tool that is necessary in today's reality doing police work, especially in a major city like ours," he said.
He has pointed out many times in the past that police in Durham and York regions both have helicopters, and that he thinks it is necessary for Toronto to have one as well.
"At the end of the day, we're all accountable for how we deal with issues, and if Queen's Park hasn't taken notice that the amount of violence, gunplay, the gang activity and the victimization that's been going on in the last week or so, at least in this community, then it will be up to me to sort of refresh their memory and I'll be looking forward to do that," he told a group of reporters earlier in the day.
Chief Fantino will likely also have a battle on his hands to get support for the helicopter from any new municipal government.
Mayoral candidate John Tory, whom the police association said has "one of the best, if not the best, law-and-order platforms," reiterated yesterday that a police helicopter is not a priority for him.
"I happen to believe that having more resources on the ground, in the neighbourhoods . . . is a more important priority than a helicopter," he said.
Fantino lashes out as Liberals cancel helicopter funds
A 'fundamental tool' for police work in major city like Toronto, chief argues
A 'fundamental tool' for police work in major city like Toronto, chief argues
Toromto Police Chief Julian Fantino lashed out at the provincial government yesterday after hearing it had cancelled the $1-million promised in the old Tory budget for a police helicopter.
"I always thought the greater good should prevail," Chief Fantino said in an interview yesterday. "I didn't think the proposition of a helicopter for the Toronto Police Service is any less valid just because a different stripe of government sits in the seat of power at Queen's Park."
Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services Monte Kwinter said yesterday that the money for the helicopter had to be cancelled when the new Liberal government discovered it had inherited a $5.6-billion deficit.
Mr. Kwinter added that he thinks the helicopter is unlikely to be a priority, even after the books are in better shape.
"When we do start flowing money, there are going to have to be some choices," he said. "Do you want the helicopter, or do you want officers?"
Mr. Kwinter said it will be especially difficult to convince his fellow cabinet ministers to pay the $1-million for a helicopter if Toronto police don't even have any money slated for it within their own budget.
Chief Fantino said he knew there was "no hope of me pushing that [expense] through the city council with the pressures they are facing," and that he had instead been working to raise private funds to augment the $1-million coming from the province.
"[The helicopter is] a fundamental tool that is necessary in today's reality doing police work, especially in a major city like ours," he said.
He has pointed out many times in the past that police in Durham and York regions both have helicopters, and that he thinks it is necessary for Toronto to have one as well.
"At the end of the day, we're all accountable for how we deal with issues, and if Queen's Park hasn't taken notice that the amount of violence, gunplay, the gang activity and the victimization that's been going on in the last week or so, at least in this community, then it will be up to me to sort of refresh their memory and I'll be looking forward to do that," he told a group of reporters earlier in the day.
Chief Fantino will likely also have a battle on his hands to get support for the helicopter from any new municipal government.
Mayoral candidate John Tory, whom the police association said has "one of the best, if not the best, law-and-order platforms," reiterated yesterday that a police helicopter is not a priority for him.
"I happen to believe that having more resources on the ground, in the neighbourhoods . . . is a more important priority than a helicopter," he said.
Their financial dilemma aside, some of these politicians don't understand do they...
How many police officers can a new chopper buy?
It costs over a 100,000 to train a new PC. So that's 30 officers then comparing them to a modern twin.
Where shall we put them now?
Well a city the size of Toronto, let's see, 1 every sq kilometre. From a geographical view point. 3 here, 2 there 8 there, 6 here, depending on tasking.
The chopper can put 4+ officers anywhere anytime with the "required expertise" for that job. 4 recruits in downtown toronto, on office duties can't handle a firearms issue across town..so no good there then.
Meanwhile the chopper costs 'X' /yr to run. {Say 700,000}
How much to run 30 police officers / year??????
salary {30 x 25,000}
pension{11% of the above}
training
sickness
expenses
admin
It doesn't take an accountant to realise that the running costs of the chopper are completely overshadowed by those of the PC's
The argument that for the cost of the chopper they could provide a BETTER service utilising troops instead...doesn't hold water, I'm afraid.
How many police officers can a new chopper buy?
It costs over a 100,000 to train a new PC. So that's 30 officers then comparing them to a modern twin.
Where shall we put them now?
Well a city the size of Toronto, let's see, 1 every sq kilometre. From a geographical view point. 3 here, 2 there 8 there, 6 here, depending on tasking.
The chopper can put 4+ officers anywhere anytime with the "required expertise" for that job. 4 recruits in downtown toronto, on office duties can't handle a firearms issue across town..so no good there then.
Meanwhile the chopper costs 'X' /yr to run. {Say 700,000}
How much to run 30 police officers / year??????
salary {30 x 25,000}
pension{11% of the above}
training
sickness
expenses
admin
It doesn't take an accountant to realise that the running costs of the chopper are completely overshadowed by those of the PC's
The argument that for the cost of the chopper they could provide a BETTER service utilising troops instead...doesn't hold water, I'm afraid.
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need a helo!
For those out there involved in police helo op's!
Simple questions!
When does a city/community require a police helicopter?...i.e...What crime stats/ coverage area/ logistical demand...etc... dictate the use of daily/nightly airborne surveillance??
I've read Toronto police would LIKE a helicopter......but technically, what are the actual needs?
Simple questions!
When does a city/community require a police helicopter?...i.e...What crime stats/ coverage area/ logistical demand...etc... dictate the use of daily/nightly airborne surveillance??
I've read Toronto police would LIKE a helicopter......but technically, what are the actual needs?
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I had the pleasure of flying with one of the community police departments in the LA basin not long ago. Quite educational.
They were flying an R-44 for patrol work only - no SWAT teams on the skids for these guys.
They had two R-44's and the group of communities that contributed put the police officers in at no cost to the program. The incremental cost for having the two helicopters was incredibly small and was easily approved at each budget hearing. The police in the communities loved having the helicopters as backup and eyes in the sky.
How much did it cost- one of the communities paid the whopping sum of $65,000 (sixty five thousand, in case you though I missed a zero) per year for this.
Turbine engine machines were completely out of the question on the basis of cost.
They were flying an R-44 for patrol work only - no SWAT teams on the skids for these guys.
They had two R-44's and the group of communities that contributed put the police officers in at no cost to the program. The incremental cost for having the two helicopters was incredibly small and was easily approved at each budget hearing. The police in the communities loved having the helicopters as backup and eyes in the sky.
How much did it cost- one of the communities paid the whopping sum of $65,000 (sixty five thousand, in case you though I missed a zero) per year for this.
Turbine engine machines were completely out of the question on the basis of cost.
As you state Shawn helicopter programmes cost peanuts, but no matter how much the politician baulk at the cost of the airframe and its infrastructure [potentially just a fuel store in the police HQ yard] they rarely look at the real costly items....... the people.
Even on that basis a turbine machine cost just two peanuts against the human resources and yet it is proven to be many many - hundreds - times more efficient than just a person on foot.
Even on that basis a turbine machine cost just two peanuts against the human resources and yet it is proven to be many many - hundreds - times more efficient than just a person on foot.
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Calgary has had a helicopter for a number of years, and it's a city with 1/4 the population of Toronto. One look at the stats, and you'll realise how effective the heli can be. How a city the size of T.O. can justify NOT having one is beyond me. Unless the ones making the decisions don't want a heli for, ahem, "personal " 
reasons (am I implying something here ??. )
Cheers
reasons (am I implying something here ??. ) Cheers
Shawn: that statement could be interpreted as :
the running costs for a police R44 is $65,000/annum.
[Or did you mean that just one of the communities contribute this sum, and that there were a number of others who also added their bit too?]
This is obviously impossible from the outset. By the time one takes into account:
Maintenance
spares
insurance premiums
fuel
hangarage
stores
air operators admin costs
running costs (hourly flying charges from FAA, CofA charges.
Equipment costs
A private R44 owner must spend $30,000/yr running costs - minimum.
Now then, how about putting a 4 or even a 5 in front of that $65,000/year.............
the running costs for a police R44 is $65,000/annum.
[Or did you mean that just one of the communities contribute this sum, and that there were a number of others who also added their bit too?]
This is obviously impossible from the outset. By the time one takes into account:
Maintenance
spares
insurance premiums
fuel
hangarage
stores
air operators admin costs
running costs (hourly flying charges from FAA, CofA charges.
Equipment costs
A private R44 owner must spend $30,000/yr running costs - minimum.
Now then, how about putting a 4 or even a 5 in front of that $65,000/year.............
