Risk or What?
Senis Semper Fidelis
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Risk or What?
As a private pilot my sort of flying allows me to pick the day, the Wx and the time to fly, how many of you professionals out there are controlled by, the contract or the obligation to get on with the work of flying the heli or person or load, we are all aware that the pilot has the last word, but in factual practice is that really adhered to.
We know that all flying is to eliminate as much risk as possible, and if you cannot then don't fly, but does it really work in the commercial and military Heli situation?
We know that all flying is to eliminate as much risk as possible, and if you cannot then don't fly, but does it really work in the commercial and military Heli situation?
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VFR
I think the crash that the ex-Chelsea director, Matthew Harding was killed in, along with the pilot and other passengers, indicates the pressure put on commercial pilots by their customers, bosses & even themselves, to fly when the conditions are not suitable.
NigD3
PS Hope you have managed to stay out of trouble since we last spoke.!!!!
I think the crash that the ex-Chelsea director, Matthew Harding was killed in, along with the pilot and other passengers, indicates the pressure put on commercial pilots by their customers, bosses & even themselves, to fly when the conditions are not suitable.
NigD3
PS Hope you have managed to stay out of trouble since we last spoke.!!!!
Senis Semper Fidelis
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Nigel,
My life is similar to that of a Trapist Monk, so quiet as to be almost serene.
I see what you mean about M Harding, but that guy was Allegedly not properly Qual, so would take a greater risk me thinks for the glory and money, what I ask is do es this ever come into every day life of any pro's, I may not see many answers,
My old hdemaatser codlun't get here to edit this, so I have teird!
My life is similar to that of a Trapist Monk, so quiet as to be almost serene.
I see what you mean about M Harding, but that guy was Allegedly not properly Qual, so would take a greater risk me thinks for the glory and money, what I ask is do es this ever come into every day life of any pro's, I may not see many answers,
My old hdemaatser codlun't get here to edit this, so I have teird!
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The decision is never go or not. Risk is not a zero or one decision. Stay home if you want absolute safety. Regarding the decision as a pro pilot, you are right on. The pilot must decide on the basis of fuzzy information if the risk is worth it, and sometimes he faces a tough Ops manager or boss. The most unhealthy situation is when the guy in back second guesses the pilot. By and large, old pilots know that is the time to move on.
I can recall this accident (Harding's) occuring, can anyone provide an internet link to the accident data/report?
For those not aware of the broader picture, I recall some of the pax who died were members of the board of a UK top league soccer club.
For those not aware of the broader picture, I recall some of the pax who died were members of the board of a UK top league soccer club.
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Can't say as I've had many problems from customers when I've made a decision to post-pone a flight for any reason. As long as I explained it to them, they accept my decision. If they don't, too bad. The keys are in the machine, and they can help themselves. 
The worst thing they can do is to have me sent home. If I were to push bad wx, the only good thing that can happen is that the job may get done, and I'll have scared all on board, and I still might be removed from the job for being stupid. I won't even mention the worst-case scenario.
In this day and age, no- one wants to have to deal with the paper work, or the inevitable lawsuit that comes from any preventable accident. Not to mention the needless loss of life or property. As a professional pilot you have to have your own personal limits, and stick to them. As the saying goes; "I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground !!"
Cheers
The worst thing they can do is to have me sent home. If I were to push bad wx, the only good thing that can happen is that the job may get done, and I'll have scared all on board, and I still might be removed from the job for being stupid. I won't even mention the worst-case scenario. In this day and age, no- one wants to have to deal with the paper work, or the inevitable lawsuit that comes from any preventable accident. Not to mention the needless loss of life or property. As a professional pilot you have to have your own personal limits, and stick to them. As the saying goes; "I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground !!"
Cheers
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Hi there Vfrpilotpb,
I would like to address a few comments you have made.
My aviation background has been in both military and commercial multi-engine helicopter operations. I suppose I was fortunate enough never to have worked in the General Aviation (GA) Industry where pilots are much more exposed to commercial pressures in order to get the job done. There are also several other operational pitfalls, such as scud running, home-get-it is, etc. pilots expose themselves to, to either satisfy the client or management or to push along to reach their final destination.
The other comment you have made was to “eliminate” risk. In aviation, being a high risk – low probability industry, there are many hazards associated with our daily flying operations. The only thing pilots and operators can do is to “manage risks and their associated hazards” and to implement safety measures that are aimed at minimising the overall probability/likehood of such a hazard impacting on the operation. Professor James Reason refers to this process as Error Management. The first line of defence is to avoid error, which is almost impossible as human error is inevitable. Secondly, is to trap errors before they escalate and lead to a serious incident or accident. The last step in the Error Management Approach is to mitigate the consequences of such incident or accident.
The final point I want to get across is the organisational culture within a company. If management encourages pilots or engineers to take shortcuts to get the job done, it can become an accepted norm of doing business. It is very important that management equip their crews with the skills and knowledge to make sound decisions throughout all the phases of flying, starting with the planning on the ground. There are various forms of safety training available for aircrew, ranging from Aeronautical Decision Making for single pilots, Crew Resource Management for multi-crew ops and Maintenance Resource Management for engineers.
Most large organisations (both military and commercial operations) now have very detailed risk management plans in place to address all the hazards that may impact on the overall safety of the organisation. For example, SHELL Aviation now requires all companies bidding for contracts to have a Safety Case in place to show that all aspects of the operation have been analysed and that the necessary steps/actions have been taken to minimise overall risk level(s).
Feel free to comment on any of the above statements.
Regards,
CJ
I would like to address a few comments you have made.
My aviation background has been in both military and commercial multi-engine helicopter operations. I suppose I was fortunate enough never to have worked in the General Aviation (GA) Industry where pilots are much more exposed to commercial pressures in order to get the job done. There are also several other operational pitfalls, such as scud running, home-get-it is, etc. pilots expose themselves to, to either satisfy the client or management or to push along to reach their final destination.
The other comment you have made was to “eliminate” risk. In aviation, being a high risk – low probability industry, there are many hazards associated with our daily flying operations. The only thing pilots and operators can do is to “manage risks and their associated hazards” and to implement safety measures that are aimed at minimising the overall probability/likehood of such a hazard impacting on the operation. Professor James Reason refers to this process as Error Management. The first line of defence is to avoid error, which is almost impossible as human error is inevitable. Secondly, is to trap errors before they escalate and lead to a serious incident or accident. The last step in the Error Management Approach is to mitigate the consequences of such incident or accident.
The final point I want to get across is the organisational culture within a company. If management encourages pilots or engineers to take shortcuts to get the job done, it can become an accepted norm of doing business. It is very important that management equip their crews with the skills and knowledge to make sound decisions throughout all the phases of flying, starting with the planning on the ground. There are various forms of safety training available for aircrew, ranging from Aeronautical Decision Making for single pilots, Crew Resource Management for multi-crew ops and Maintenance Resource Management for engineers.
Most large organisations (both military and commercial operations) now have very detailed risk management plans in place to address all the hazards that may impact on the overall safety of the organisation. For example, SHELL Aviation now requires all companies bidding for contracts to have a Safety Case in place to show that all aspects of the operation have been analysed and that the necessary steps/actions have been taken to minimise overall risk level(s).
Feel free to comment on any of the above statements.
Regards,
CJ
