Assistance
(a bear of little brain)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: 51 10 03.70N 2 58 37.15W
Age: 75
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Assistance
A friend of mine (a fixed wing PPL holder with rotary ambitions) has persuaded his boss to think about getting a company helicopter (which he would then, after the relevant conversion and training, fly for them).
He was telling me last night that he had been pricing up Bell machines, 5 seaters, (206 I think he said) and I mentioned that I had read about a similar sized French machine which was favoured by Police/Air Ambulances in the UK (and some in the US).
Unfortunately I can't remeber the make/model I was talking about (it was a while back and only of vague interest; I think it was a variety of Allouette). Does anyone know what I'm talking about? (because I don't, as usual
).
He was telling me last night that he had been pricing up Bell machines, 5 seaters, (206 I think he said) and I mentioned that I had read about a similar sized French machine which was favoured by Police/Air Ambulances in the UK (and some in the US).
Unfortunately I can't remeber the make/model I was talking about (it was a while back and only of vague interest; I think it was a variety of Allouette). Does anyone know what I'm talking about? (because I don't, as usual
).
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Harwich
Age: 65
Posts: 777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tee hee. Where do we start? I'm only 50% sure this isn't a wind-up, but nonetheless here are some serious answers.
1. "...he would then, after relevant conversion and training, fly for them." Only if he gets trained to at least Commercial Pilot's Licence (Helicopter) (CPL(H)) standard. Were he to fly people around with a Private Licence and the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) to find out about it, they would be down on him like a ton of bricks. And the CAA use very heavy bricks. The insurance people, accurately apprised of the situation, would very likely make it impossible in any case.
2. A 206 is a single-engined machine. For a long while now, the Police and HEMS (Helicopter Emergency Medical Service) in the UK have been using twin-engined aircraft, for the extra safety when manouvering over built-up areas.
3. A "similar-sized French machine" - one with five seats - could be one of at least three. There's the AS350 Single Squirrel, with one engine. There's the AS355 Twin Squirrel, two engines. And of much more recent design (very quiet, low [OK relatively low] maintenance), the single-engined EC120. Those are in common commercial use today. A new EC120 costs about three quarters of a mil, depending very much on the details of the equipment.
There are two more: the Gazelle and the Allouette. Most of the 40 or so Gazelles are ex-military and may not be used for any kind of commercial operation. The Allouette is as old as the hills and there was only one on the UK register last year, probably in private hands.
Tell him not to.
1. "...he would then, after relevant conversion and training, fly for them." Only if he gets trained to at least Commercial Pilot's Licence (Helicopter) (CPL(H)) standard. Were he to fly people around with a Private Licence and the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) to find out about it, they would be down on him like a ton of bricks. And the CAA use very heavy bricks. The insurance people, accurately apprised of the situation, would very likely make it impossible in any case.
2. A 206 is a single-engined machine. For a long while now, the Police and HEMS (Helicopter Emergency Medical Service) in the UK have been using twin-engined aircraft, for the extra safety when manouvering over built-up areas.
3. A "similar-sized French machine" - one with five seats - could be one of at least three. There's the AS350 Single Squirrel, with one engine. There's the AS355 Twin Squirrel, two engines. And of much more recent design (very quiet, low [OK relatively low] maintenance), the single-engined EC120. Those are in common commercial use today. A new EC120 costs about three quarters of a mil, depending very much on the details of the equipment.
There are two more: the Gazelle and the Allouette. Most of the 40 or so Gazelles are ex-military and may not be used for any kind of commercial operation. The Allouette is as old as the hills and there was only one on the UK register last year, probably in private hands.
Tell him not to.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Age: 71
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hilico raises a bit of a grey area, concerning the type of licence required for corporate flying. Quite a lot of private pilots fly corporate aircraft without being nicked by the CAA. The argument goes that the flying of that aircraft is incidental to their employment as an accountant (or whatever), and that since they do not get remunerated for the flying, they don't need a professional licence. JAR FCL has changed that a bit, but PPLs still do this sort of flying.
(There are at least a few PPLs who blatantly break the rules but that is another story)
However, regardless of the type of licence held, it is not sensible to "give someone a conversion" and then just let them loose flying typical corporate helicopter flying. A pilot needs more experience than you gain in a PPL(H) course, before being let loose on such operations.
(There are at least a few PPLs who blatantly break the rules but that is another story)
However, regardless of the type of licence held, it is not sensible to "give someone a conversion" and then just let them loose flying typical corporate helicopter flying. A pilot needs more experience than you gain in a PPL(H) course, before being let loose on such operations.
(a bear of little brain)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: 51 10 03.70N 2 58 37.15W
Age: 75
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gentlemen. Thanks for the answers. I will pass the model numbers onto him (from the description/spec. it presumably must have been the AS355 I read about). I would also point out:-
1. It wasn't a wind-up, or at least not of yourselves. It may well never happen for a variety of reasons (cost or mate was being wound up) but the conversation was serious.
2. He did mention the licence type, and whether he would need a commercial licence. His boss is also a personal friend of his. I don't know what the rules are but I would imagine you can let your mate have a go in your aircraft, which would give him an 'exemption' (please note ironic quote marks), as per Helinut's comments.
3. I'm not a pilot of any sort and didn't know the 206 was a single and that police/medevac aircraft were twins. He was ranting on about the Bell and I remembered the French things and thought that if it was good enough for the police/medevac it should be good enough for him, but couldn't remember the name. Similarly I didn't know the prices (he was talking a budget of 800k USD for the initial purchase).
4. The conversion course he was talking about will involve 3 months in Texas. I don't know the syllabus but sounds like longer than just a basic PPL type thing.
Thank you again gentlemen.
1. It wasn't a wind-up, or at least not of yourselves. It may well never happen for a variety of reasons (cost or mate was being wound up) but the conversation was serious.
2. He did mention the licence type, and whether he would need a commercial licence. His boss is also a personal friend of his. I don't know what the rules are but I would imagine you can let your mate have a go in your aircraft, which would give him an 'exemption' (please note ironic quote marks), as per Helinut's comments.
3. I'm not a pilot of any sort and didn't know the 206 was a single and that police/medevac aircraft were twins. He was ranting on about the Bell and I remembered the French things and thought that if it was good enough for the police/medevac it should be good enough for him, but couldn't remember the name. Similarly I didn't know the prices (he was talking a budget of 800k USD for the initial purchase).
4. The conversion course he was talking about will involve 3 months in Texas. I don't know the syllabus but sounds like longer than just a basic PPL type thing.
Thank you again gentlemen.
