V.A.T. Petition
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V.A.T. Petition
It really is a disgrace that our government demands 17.5% VAT on legitimate studies towards a professional career, whilst other students not only have their fees paid, but have no onerous VAT obligation on their course, be it Doctor, Architect, Lawyer, or the study of David Beckham!
I would like to start a petition to be presented to the Government, to end the VAT obligation for anyone genuimnely carrying out the ATPL course, and ask anyone interested to join this thread. Sign up below.
I would like to start a petition to be presented to the Government, to end the VAT obligation for anyone genuimnely carrying out the ATPL course, and ask anyone interested to join this thread. Sign up below.
Guest
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Been there, had the letter back from my MP etc etc.
Trouble is, our training providers are, in the words of the treasury dept 'providing educational and training courses on a commercial basis for profit and have to charge for their services plus the standard rate', The letter then rambles on to say that it would not be possible to consider VAT relief in this field, as it would be unfair on other sectors of the communiy who could be considered at least as worthy.....STUPID BLOODY GOOD FOR NOTHING JOBSWORTHS!!!!!
It took nearly six months to get that reply together with one from the Dep of Education who claim that NVQ was removed ... 'due to lack of demand'!!!!!
It would be interesing to hear if Guildhall charge VAT, as they are your actual bog standard University.
Trouble is, our training providers are, in the words of the treasury dept 'providing educational and training courses on a commercial basis for profit and have to charge for their services plus the standard rate', The letter then rambles on to say that it would not be possible to consider VAT relief in this field, as it would be unfair on other sectors of the communiy who could be considered at least as worthy.....STUPID BLOODY GOOD FOR NOTHING JOBSWORTHS!!!!!
It took nearly six months to get that reply together with one from the Dep of Education who claim that NVQ was removed ... 'due to lack of demand'!!!!!
It would be interesing to hear if Guildhall charge VAT, as they are your actual bog standard University.
Guest
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count me in 500 times over!!!!!
this v.a.t is absolutley disgusting.
It actually knocks me sick!!
Do the government want a country full of people who can't/wont better themselves?
They certainly are'nt with this HUGE v.a.t charge on top of the obsurd price we pay for training!!!
GOOD LUCK MATE YOU HAVE ALL MY BACKING UP!
MAY GOD HELP US!
this v.a.t is absolutley disgusting.
It actually knocks me sick!!
Do the government want a country full of people who can't/wont better themselves?
They certainly are'nt with this HUGE v.a.t charge on top of the obsurd price we pay for training!!!
GOOD LUCK MATE YOU HAVE ALL MY BACKING UP!
MAY GOD HELP US!
Guest
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Best of luck, support 100%
What we need is a flight school with charitable status, ie all profits ploughed back into the school and therefore could possibly get some taxation benefits etc.
It still remains a disgrace that V.A.T has to be paid on such trainning. ATPL trainning is a career not an expensive hobby!!!
Sagey
What we need is a flight school with charitable status, ie all profits ploughed back into the school and therefore could possibly get some taxation benefits etc.
It still remains a disgrace that V.A.T has to be paid on such trainning. ATPL trainning is a career not an expensive hobby!!!
Sagey
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Put me down - I've already written to my MP about this, I got the usual treasury bluster back:
"We believe that the issues regarding self-sponsored pilot training are something that the industry should be responsible for: for companies the VAT is deductable".
Basically says 'if we pretend these people don't exist we can go on stitching them up'.
Don't expect any help from the government, guys, it gets bigger headlines and buys more votes to bail out a few hundred workers at a car factory or steel plant every year than it does to help us.
Sagey yes, a company can deduct the VAT on training - basically they subtract the VAT on everything that they buy from the VAT on what they sell and pay the remaining amount to Customs and Excise.
Thus VAT is only really charged to end-users - you and me.
Ronchonner I though the local sales tax was levied on the aircraft rental part of any training over there.
[This message has been edited by foghorn (edited 03 April 2001).]
"We believe that the issues regarding self-sponsored pilot training are something that the industry should be responsible for: for companies the VAT is deductable".
Basically says 'if we pretend these people don't exist we can go on stitching them up'.
Don't expect any help from the government, guys, it gets bigger headlines and buys more votes to bail out a few hundred workers at a car factory or steel plant every year than it does to help us.
Sagey yes, a company can deduct the VAT on training - basically they subtract the VAT on everything that they buy from the VAT on what they sell and pay the remaining amount to Customs and Excise.
Thus VAT is only really charged to end-users - you and me.
Ronchonner I though the local sales tax was levied on the aircraft rental part of any training over there.
[This message has been edited by foghorn (edited 03 April 2001).]
Guest
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Sagey.
A very good point. I remember having a similar conversation about this particular situation with someone a while ago.
It seems that as sponsored cadets are part of the training programme and that the airlines must set aside funds to pay for this then the total amount can be offset against tax, as it is inward investment.
Add to this a reasonable discount (and do not be fooled that OATS/Cabair etc do not give discount) then you begin to get a good idea of the sort of cost it becomes to an airline.
A typical educated estimate is 10/15% school discount followed by the reduced tax relief on that figure at the end of the fiscal year, which will be at the 40% rate, so you can see the sort of price an airline will pay.
Having said that, if wrong I will be corrected no doubt.
There is definately something worthwhile exploring with respect to a charitable flight training organisation. With all the bad news surrounding OATS and Cabair lately a new and reputable school would definately cause a stir. In addition, [in my humble opinion] the school would primarily/only attract self sponsored students so there would be none of that nonsense associated with the airline cadets and favoritism; yes I've been there. As it would be a charitable organisation, I would imagine that flight costs would also be slightly cheaper.
According to my sources there are many airline pilots due to retire this year; what better source of instruction, so if someone wants to pursue the charitable school idea then prehaps the time has come.
Finally, businesses can now get all sorts of funding; ie, Objective 1, Princes Trust etc.
Sorry to waffle, but I'm just trying to throw ideas into the ring!!!
A very good point. I remember having a similar conversation about this particular situation with someone a while ago.
It seems that as sponsored cadets are part of the training programme and that the airlines must set aside funds to pay for this then the total amount can be offset against tax, as it is inward investment.
Add to this a reasonable discount (and do not be fooled that OATS/Cabair etc do not give discount) then you begin to get a good idea of the sort of cost it becomes to an airline.
A typical educated estimate is 10/15% school discount followed by the reduced tax relief on that figure at the end of the fiscal year, which will be at the 40% rate, so you can see the sort of price an airline will pay.
Having said that, if wrong I will be corrected no doubt.
There is definately something worthwhile exploring with respect to a charitable flight training organisation. With all the bad news surrounding OATS and Cabair lately a new and reputable school would definately cause a stir. In addition, [in my humble opinion] the school would primarily/only attract self sponsored students so there would be none of that nonsense associated with the airline cadets and favoritism; yes I've been there. As it would be a charitable organisation, I would imagine that flight costs would also be slightly cheaper.
According to my sources there are many airline pilots due to retire this year; what better source of instruction, so if someone wants to pursue the charitable school idea then prehaps the time has come.
Finally, businesses can now get all sorts of funding; ie, Objective 1, Princes Trust etc.
Sorry to waffle, but I'm just trying to throw ideas into the ring!!!
Guest
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Put my name down for supporting this, definitly.
I wonder if there is any way to get around the vat, the way IT contracters do (or used to, until the govt clamped down on it). They would set up a company, and get the company they work for, to pay their company. They could then charge all their expenses to their company, and hence reduce the taxable earnings. They can still do this, but are now not allowed to work for the same employer in this manner, for more than a certain length of time.
i.e. For the ATPL, Would it be possible to setup a VAT registered flying company, which you own, and are the only employee. You could train (directly relevant to your company) pay vat to the flying school, and reclaim it. When you started work commercially, the airline could pay your salary + vat to your company, the airline could reclaim the vat. Can one then disolve the company soon after, and work as a normal employee???
Can anyone who knows about this sort of thing, update us as to wether anything like this can be legally and easily done.
ickle
I wonder if there is any way to get around the vat, the way IT contracters do (or used to, until the govt clamped down on it). They would set up a company, and get the company they work for, to pay their company. They could then charge all their expenses to their company, and hence reduce the taxable earnings. They can still do this, but are now not allowed to work for the same employer in this manner, for more than a certain length of time.
i.e. For the ATPL, Would it be possible to setup a VAT registered flying company, which you own, and are the only employee. You could train (directly relevant to your company) pay vat to the flying school, and reclaim it. When you started work commercially, the airline could pay your salary + vat to your company, the airline could reclaim the vat. Can one then disolve the company soon after, and work as a normal employee???
Can anyone who knows about this sort of thing, update us as to wether anything like this can be legally and easily done.
ickle