BM/OATS A BIG MONEY SCAM?
Guest
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BM/OATS A BIG MONEY SCAM?
I have heard from many numerous independent sources that candidates who have been invited to OATS for BM aptitude tests ,who have paid the fee(75pounds ish), and then NOT turned up due to subsequent job offers from other airlines, still received letters from OATS informing them that "although their results were not up to BM standards they still had the aptitude to be pilots! and OATS's marketing dept(surprise surprise) would be in contact"
Wannabes beware!
Wannabes beware!
Guest
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I totally agree! I think someone or something is wrong there. I sat the same test in November last year, having paid the £75 fee. (That's like nearly an hour in the air for me!)
Anyway, I have a 1st class Physics degree and these things are my specialty. (sorry, dont mean to brag!) But i thought the tests went rather well, only to be dissapointed by a similar type of letter. Now that you mentioned it, how well do they actually mark these tests, and for that type of money, I'd certainly like some feed back!!
Anyway, I have a 1st class Physics degree and these things are my specialty. (sorry, dont mean to brag!) But i thought the tests went rather well, only to be dissapointed by a similar type of letter. Now that you mentioned it, how well do they actually mark these tests, and for that type of money, I'd certainly like some feed back!!
Guest
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Don't worry guys!
I also received that same letter but even before the aptitude tests. At least I saved the £75.
Nevertheless, I have shown qualifications that are suitable for becoming a pilot and bla bla ....
G-HIGH, I am starting to think that too much qualifications might be a problem. I also have a first class degree in Electronic engineering and lots of Maths and Physics at university level (from my previous degree studied in Portugal) and currently studying towards a PhD in Engineering and that didn't seem appealing or in accordance with BM standards? So what are BM standards exactly??
I even had a trial flight which at least shows determination ... Well ... I don't know what to say!
TheNavigator
I also received that same letter but even before the aptitude tests. At least I saved the £75.
Nevertheless, I have shown qualifications that are suitable for becoming a pilot and bla bla ....G-HIGH, I am starting to think that too much qualifications might be a problem. I also have a first class degree in Electronic engineering and lots of Maths and Physics at university level (from my previous degree studied in Portugal) and currently studying towards a PhD in Engineering and that didn't seem appealing or in accordance with BM standards? So what are BM standards exactly??
I even had a trial flight which at least shows determination ... Well ... I don't know what to say!
TheNavigator
Guest
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A lot of folks bemoan the fee for OATS aptitudes - I for one can understand why but I feel you have to look at it in context.
If you apply to BA, how many times do you need to report to Meadowbank before they offer you a job? And how much does it cost each time to get into London before 9am? Shedloads, in my experience.
I bet y'all felt a bit more positive about handing over the £75 before you found out you hadn't got through...not suggesting that you aren't owed some kind of feedback but make sure you aren't just slagging the scheme because you weren't successful.
As for standards - my info is that there are no benchmark pass/fail qualities, rather that you are judged against the other applicants and the 'top' x number go through to the next stage, and so on. Just because you don't get an interview, it doesn't mean you would necessarily be unsuccessful elsewhere or as a pilot per se.
And guys - don't start convincing yourselves that you have 'too many' qualifications (what egos!) - many of the successful applicants I know have first class degrees with all the trimmings, but also have a little extra than the occasional trial lesson to show determination (unless you were being sarky..).
From my experience with the Airline for Europe they prefer you to have a life and proof of enthusiasm in flying than just a 1st in Star Trek and a PhD
Good luck for the future regardless - hope you can take the banter! (tongue firmly in side of face)
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...proceeding below Decision Height with CAUTION...
If you apply to BA, how many times do you need to report to Meadowbank before they offer you a job? And how much does it cost each time to get into London before 9am? Shedloads, in my experience.
I bet y'all felt a bit more positive about handing over the £75 before you found out you hadn't got through...not suggesting that you aren't owed some kind of feedback but make sure you aren't just slagging the scheme because you weren't successful.
As for standards - my info is that there are no benchmark pass/fail qualities, rather that you are judged against the other applicants and the 'top' x number go through to the next stage, and so on. Just because you don't get an interview, it doesn't mean you would necessarily be unsuccessful elsewhere or as a pilot per se.
And guys - don't start convincing yourselves that you have 'too many' qualifications (what egos!
) - many of the successful applicants I know have first class degrees with all the trimmings, but also have a little extra than the occasional trial lesson to show determination (unless you were being sarky..). From my experience with the Airline for Europe they prefer you to have a life and proof of enthusiasm in flying than just a 1st in Star Trek and a PhD
Good luck for the future regardless - hope you can take the banter! (tongue firmly in side of face)
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...proceeding below Decision Height with CAUTION...
Guest
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They are giving you feedback. They say that you have either the qualifications and attributes to be a pilot or that you have the aptitude depending on what stage of the selection you get to.
Alternatively if you clearly don`t have the aptitude of attributes they will not tell you that you have. OATS prides itself on its high success rates and would not wish to take on people who are likely to fail when the space is limited anyway.
Also don't forget that OATS is a Flight Training School and is in the business of making money. All they are doing is specifically targeting those who have a passion to fly.
MY 13p worth.
[This message has been edited by M13 (edited 21 March 2001).]
Alternatively if you clearly don`t have the aptitude of attributes they will not tell you that you have. OATS prides itself on its high success rates and would not wish to take on people who are likely to fail when the space is limited anyway.
Also don't forget that OATS is a Flight Training School and is in the business of making money. All they are doing is specifically targeting those who have a passion to fly.
MY 13p worth.
[This message has been edited by M13 (edited 21 March 2001).]
Guest
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Unless I have missed the point here, surely the point of this thread at the outset was about a bit of a scam being found out.
It was not about a business making money or a school encouraging a keen prospective student. These things are or should go without saying.
From what I gather, OATS are implying that based on the test results, a student who has not made the grade on BM's aptitude test, still has what it takes to be a pilot.
I have always taken the entry requirements to a school with a pinch of salt ( I must say BAe did insist on proof of my qualifications atleast )but this issue is about misleading. Being told that you have what it takes based on those tests when you haven't shown up or before you show up would be plainly dishonest.
In OATS defence, I would hope that these invitations are not based on the Tests but are based on OATS meeting or even interviewing the candidate at some point prior. If this is the case, then as someone who can not claim to be an academic genius, simply someone passionate about flying with a life long dream (in a holding pattern for thirteen years)then I would have to encourage this attitude.
Hopefully, someone can clear this up, because in my view, there is quite a serious difference in these two possibilities.
It was not about a business making money or a school encouraging a keen prospective student. These things are or should go without saying.
From what I gather, OATS are implying that based on the test results, a student who has not made the grade on BM's aptitude test, still has what it takes to be a pilot.
I have always taken the entry requirements to a school with a pinch of salt ( I must say BAe did insist on proof of my qualifications atleast )but this issue is about misleading. Being told that you have what it takes based on those tests when you haven't shown up or before you show up would be plainly dishonest.
In OATS defence, I would hope that these invitations are not based on the Tests but are based on OATS meeting or even interviewing the candidate at some point prior. If this is the case, then as someone who can not claim to be an academic genius, simply someone passionate about flying with a life long dream (in a holding pattern for thirteen years)then I would have to encourage this attitude.
Hopefully, someone can clear this up, because in my view, there is quite a serious difference in these two possibilities.
Guest
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Its like football....40 points may be enough to stay in the premiership and avoid relegation one year, but the next season, 40 points may not be good enough and you end up in the first division. It just depends on how well all the other teams perform.
Guest
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It is fair enough for colleges to charge for selection - really it means that the sponsoring airline is not willing to meet this cost. I think its not a bad way of weeding out the non-serious dreamers. Plus if you were running an airline would you foot a bill that candidates were willing to pay albeit grudgingly...?
The tests are a tiny but pricey for what they are but certainly they are in the ballpark, better than the old CABAIR ones for the same money and have at least soome validity.
You can't really blame OATS marketing for compiling a database of applicants for direct marketing purposes.
The fact that you get turned down for not meeting the BM standard should not worry you unduly. Look at me. The RAF selected me for Pilot, BA took me to final board but thought I was too domineering on group exercise first time and then too meek the second time, BM I passed one year and failed the next, Aer Lingus I passed all but the final interview board, Air2000 @ CABAIR failed me at the first hurdle as being unsuitable for training and then within 10 months of all that I was teaching Aer Lingus/Airtours cadets to fly and then got into a very respectable jet airline RHS.
Go figure that little lot?!?
Good luck and keep your chin(s) up.
WWW
The tests are a tiny but pricey for what they are but certainly they are in the ballpark, better than the old CABAIR ones for the same money and have at least soome validity.
You can't really blame OATS marketing for compiling a database of applicants for direct marketing purposes.
The fact that you get turned down for not meeting the BM standard should not worry you unduly. Look at me. The RAF selected me for Pilot, BA took me to final board but thought I was too domineering on group exercise first time and then too meek the second time, BM I passed one year and failed the next, Aer Lingus I passed all but the final interview board, Air2000 @ CABAIR failed me at the first hurdle as being unsuitable for training and then within 10 months of all that I was teaching Aer Lingus/Airtours cadets to fly and then got into a very respectable jet airline RHS.
Go figure that little lot?!?
Good luck and keep your chin(s) up.
WWW
Guest
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WWW I have always enjoyed your posts.. Admired your dedication and determination to be an aviator.... There are many of us who have suceeded the hard way. Gone out into the world and roughed it... Your above post has lost me. Why are you not a VC 10 pilot or attached to one in a Tornado, if the RAF selected you as a pilot??? Or Busdriving for BM if you had met their grade?????... " GO " figure!!!!! Congratulations, Cheers and all the best...
Guest
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WWW,
Likewise, I always look forward to your posts, but am left wondering if you have also failed to grasp what is being said in the outset of this thread.
Of course a marketing departments job is to contact people on a database, but in no way should it be considered okay to deceive. These candidates have NOT proved suitable to persue a career in aviation based on their aptitutude tests. They may well be suitable but not based on a test that they have never sat. This surely is the point of the thread.
Please do tell me if I am wrong.
Likewise, I always look forward to your posts, but am left wondering if you have also failed to grasp what is being said in the outset of this thread.
Of course a marketing departments job is to contact people on a database, but in no way should it be considered okay to deceive. These candidates have NOT proved suitable to persue a career in aviation based on their aptitutude tests. They may well be suitable but not based on a test that they have never sat. This surely is the point of the thread.
Please do tell me if I am wrong.
Guest
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Harves - remember that BM might wish to take the top 5 percent from testing or perhaps just the top scoring 30 people. Your suitablility for training however may well be indicated by a score inthe top 10 percent.
The reason I ain't in the RAF is because my Cranwell start got cancelled and I was sent to University all because the damned Berlin Wall fell down (Front Line First, Options For Change).
Such is life,
WWW
The reason I ain't in the RAF is because my Cranwell start got cancelled and I was sent to University all because the damned Berlin Wall fell down (Front Line First, Options For Change).
Such is life,
WWW
Guest
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It would seem to me that anyone who has been told that they 'have the aptitude to be a pilot' without having been tested is, at the very least, being led up the garden path. If they've paid £75 to be told that without being tested, than that must be illegal. If these stories are true, then those concerned would have a reasonable claim against the school for their money back - and the school, I'm sure, would probably pay some compensation as well to avoid the possibility of adverse publicity.
But are the stories true, or has someone an axe to grind......
But are the stories true, or has someone an axe to grind......