ATPL Nightmare
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ATPL Nightmare
This could be a very long post but I do not apologise!!
Maybe we all might save some money! Maybe I might have been told something incoorect?? I hope so.
I have just spent the est part of 6 months searching and scrimping to afford to get my class 1 and start my ATPL ground school. As part of this I thought it would be prudent to find out how long I had to pass the exams and if tere were any other limits which I should know of.
Get this:-
Once you have sat your first atpl you have a year to pass the lot. If you fail a certain number or get partial passes and fail some etc( I didnt plan failing any so didnt enquire about this) you take the lot again!! A potential £2K down the tube!!
Once you have this you get 3 years to get your CPL or IR or you lose everything. Fair enough.
There's 7 years to unfreeze your ATPL or you lose everything but I was informed that you alsoneed 500 hours multi crew as part of the 1500 hours to unfreeze it!! In order to get multi crew you are either John Travolta or get a job with an airline...BUT an airline gerneally wants an unfrozen ATPL!! Catch 22!!!
SO...... Someone tell me I am wrong. I hope so. And if I am, why have I got this story from two flight training schools who really should know? Some organisations claimed ignorance and not knowing too which smacks abit of them just wanting the money and never mind the state you are left in when finished. It seems to me that JAA has really confused everyone and as a result made it nigh on impossible for pilots like myself to get on.
Soggy is very apt!!! Thats how I feel.
If this is the case then there really WILL be a major shortage of commercial pilots in years to come. I reckon there are probably no people who browse this forum who can afford to get 500 hours multi crew on their own pocket!!
Maybe we all might save some money! Maybe I might have been told something incoorect?? I hope so.
I have just spent the est part of 6 months searching and scrimping to afford to get my class 1 and start my ATPL ground school. As part of this I thought it would be prudent to find out how long I had to pass the exams and if tere were any other limits which I should know of.
Get this:-
Once you have sat your first atpl you have a year to pass the lot. If you fail a certain number or get partial passes and fail some etc( I didnt plan failing any so didnt enquire about this) you take the lot again!! A potential £2K down the tube!!
Once you have this you get 3 years to get your CPL or IR or you lose everything. Fair enough.
There's 7 years to unfreeze your ATPL or you lose everything but I was informed that you alsoneed 500 hours multi crew as part of the 1500 hours to unfreeze it!! In order to get multi crew you are either John Travolta or get a job with an airline...BUT an airline gerneally wants an unfrozen ATPL!! Catch 22!!!
SO...... Someone tell me I am wrong. I hope so. And if I am, why have I got this story from two flight training schools who really should know? Some organisations claimed ignorance and not knowing too which smacks abit of them just wanting the money and never mind the state you are left in when finished. It seems to me that JAA has really confused everyone and as a result made it nigh on impossible for pilots like myself to get on.
Soggy is very apt!!! Thats how I feel.
If this is the case then there really WILL be a major shortage of commercial pilots in years to come. I reckon there are probably no people who browse this forum who can afford to get 500 hours multi crew on their own pocket!!
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There's 7 years to unfreeze your ATPL or you lose everything...500 hours multi crew as part of the 1500 hours to unfreeze it
Agreed, clarification needed from someone who knows!
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The answer is that you don't need a full-blown ATPL to sit in the Right hand seat of a B737. All you need is a Multi-Engine CPL/IR informally known as a fATPL the little f being (f)rozen. A fATPL is not an actual license and doesn't exist in the real world.
The idea is that you unfreeze your fATPL a.k.a. ME CPL/IR in the right hand seat and then shuffle across to the left hand seat after you have learnt your trade. (i.e. It's an apprenticeship) The ME CPL/IR is nothing more than your ticket to start learning!
Stop Panicking, you will still get to blow a fortune getting your fATPL.
Cheers
Cypres
The idea is that you unfreeze your fATPL a.k.a. ME CPL/IR in the right hand seat and then shuffle across to the left hand seat after you have learnt your trade. (i.e. It's an apprenticeship) The ME CPL/IR is nothing more than your ticket to start learning!
Stop Panicking, you will still get to blow a fortune getting your fATPL.
Cheers
Cypres
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Don`t panic.....You have 18 mths from the date of your first pass to pass all 14 exams. You then have 36 mths from the date of your last pass to obtain a CPL and an IR.
Your exam credits then remain current for up to 7 years as long as you renew your IR in that time.
DWW
Your exam credits then remain current for up to 7 years as long as you renew your IR in that time.
DWW
I say there boy
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Your ATPL exam credits are valid for a rolling seven years from the last day that your IR was current.
It's simple, keep the IR valid, and the ATPLs stay valid. Let the IR lapse, you've got seven years to revalidate it before you lose the ATPL credits.
cheers!
foggy.
It's simple, keep the IR valid, and the ATPLs stay valid. Let the IR lapse, you've got seven years to revalidate it before you lose the ATPL credits.
cheers!
foggy.
Last edited by foghorn; 14th Oct 2002 at 08:16.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Soggy, I agree with other posts, it's not as bad as you make out.
The limit for passing the ATPLs is 18 months, not 12. And, as you say, this 18 months only starts after your first exam. Assuming you're doing your exams in 2 modules, that gives you, say, 12 months to do half the ATPL course, and another 6 months to do any re-sits - more than enough.
And as others have said, the 7 years is rolling - as long as you keep your IR valid, your ATPL credits won't expire.
If you're investigating all this, you really need to speak to the CAA and get a copy of LASORS, a new document which pulls everything you ever wanted to know about getting an ATPL into one document. Everyone who's got a copy agrees that it's a must-have. Unfortunately, I don't have a copy yet, because they keep selling out....
FFF
---------------
The limit for passing the ATPLs is 18 months, not 12. And, as you say, this 18 months only starts after your first exam. Assuming you're doing your exams in 2 modules, that gives you, say, 12 months to do half the ATPL course, and another 6 months to do any re-sits - more than enough.
And as others have said, the 7 years is rolling - as long as you keep your IR valid, your ATPL credits won't expire.
If you're investigating all this, you really need to speak to the CAA and get a copy of LASORS, a new document which pulls everything you ever wanted to know about getting an ATPL into one document. Everyone who's got a copy agrees that it's a must-have. Unfortunately, I don't have a copy yet, because they keep selling out....
FFF
---------------
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ATPL - not so bad!
ATPL Theoretical Groundschool
You have:
18 months to complete all 14 examinations
in 6 sittings
with 4 attemps for each subject
Once you have passed the last exam you then have
36 months to complete your CPL & or IR
Providing you keep your IR valid your exams will remain valid.
IR will be valid for 7 years and when you revalidate it will then continue to be valid for another 7 years.
The only chance of unfreezing your ATPL's is once you enter an airline and obtain 500 hours of MPA (multi Pilot Aircraft) time.
Don't worry, but do contact me for more information on this subject or all courses on [email protected]
You have:
18 months to complete all 14 examinations
in 6 sittings
with 4 attemps for each subject
Once you have passed the last exam you then have
36 months to complete your CPL & or IR
Providing you keep your IR valid your exams will remain valid.
IR will be valid for 7 years and when you revalidate it will then continue to be valid for another 7 years.
The only chance of unfreezing your ATPL's is once you enter an airline and obtain 500 hours of MPA (multi Pilot Aircraft) time.
Don't worry, but do contact me for more information on this subject or all courses on [email protected]
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Question
Hi, I'm a bit confused.
Is it possible to complete an IR without having done the CPL training first? i.e. If some one has:
-PPL
-ATPL theory
-Night rating
-Multi-engine rating?
In effect wouldn't it be classed as a PPL/IR until the CPL training is done? I thought that you couldn't do a PPL/IR after last June?
Regards,
Tri
Is it possible to complete an IR without having done the CPL training first? i.e. If some one has:
-PPL
-ATPL theory
-Night rating
-Multi-engine rating?
In effect wouldn't it be classed as a PPL/IR until the CPL training is done? I thought that you couldn't do a PPL/IR after last June?
Regards,
Tri
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: UK
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on the subject or re-validating an IR. Having pased your IR and maybe started on the road of instructing to build hours, earn money or whatever, is it worth revaliding the IR.
Surely if you get an offer from an employer they will need to get you a type rating (and lets not let this get into the argument about whether an emplyer should pay for your type rating) for the aircraft you are being hired to fly.
Does this type rating not also renew your IR. If so is there any point in blowing the best part of £700 for the renewal (assuming that's how much it costs) + whatever prep you feel you need to do (potentially another £300).
Maybe naively I assumed that an employer would be happy with the fact that you once managed to complete your IR (assuming you didn't let it lapse about three years previously of course
)
Surely if you get an offer from an employer they will need to get you a type rating (and lets not let this get into the argument about whether an emplyer should pay for your type rating) for the aircraft you are being hired to fly.
Does this type rating not also renew your IR. If so is there any point in blowing the best part of £700 for the renewal (assuming that's how much it costs) + whatever prep you feel you need to do (potentially another £300).
Maybe naively I assumed that an employer would be happy with the fact that you once managed to complete your IR (assuming you didn't let it lapse about three years previously of course
)
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PPL/IR
Trislander,
As far as I know you can do your IR with just a PPL but not many organisations offer it!!
Anyway, cheers all for the info. I reckon I'm now off to get a copy of Lasors.. take my place in the queue.
If I ever win the lottery I'll get us all a second hand 737 and we can all fly together, get our multis and sod the lot of 'em!!!
Yipeee!
Soggy
As far as I know you can do your IR with just a PPL but not many organisations offer it!!
Anyway, cheers all for the info. I reckon I'm now off to get a copy of Lasors.. take my place in the queue.
If I ever win the lottery I'll get us all a second hand 737 and we can all fly together, get our multis and sod the lot of 'em!!!
Yipeee!
Soggy
Jet Blast Rat
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Glad to see you sought clarification here, Soggy. Sounds like you got some slightly pessimistic info from others. The replies you have had here seem accurate. I would also add that few airlines ask for an ATPL for all their junior first officers - most take on some CPL/IRs as long as they have passed the ATPL exams. This looks forward to the day when they captain a multi-crew aircraft and need a full ATPL!
Best of luck with your exams and the CPL and IR. I did it in 2000/2001 and do not regret it, despite the temporary bad employment environment!
Best of luck with your exams and the CPL and IR. I did it in 2000/2001 and do not regret it, despite the temporary bad employment environment!
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Should you revalidate the IR?
Well in my opinion yes you should, for a start it shows an airline that you are in some sort of instrument currency when you do get an interview.
You will also be up for jobs against people who have a current IR and that would be a plus point for them and against you if yours has lapsed.
Finaly try flying a SID/STAR in two years time, in a jet sim or the like, when you havnt flown any proper procedures in years and to add to it this is the first time since the MCC that you have flown a jet. Im sure it would realy impress the sim instructor!!!
Unfortunatly you need to keep all the eggs in the air, let one drop and the others will soon follow.
Well in my opinion yes you should, for a start it shows an airline that you are in some sort of instrument currency when you do get an interview.
You will also be up for jobs against people who have a current IR and that would be a plus point for them and against you if yours has lapsed.
Finaly try flying a SID/STAR in two years time, in a jet sim or the like, when you havnt flown any proper procedures in years and to add to it this is the first time since the MCC that you have flown a jet. Im sure it would realy impress the sim instructor!!!
Unfortunatly you need to keep all the eggs in the air, let one drop and the others will soon follow.
