Is Norway CAA correct?
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Is Norway CAA correct?
Hi
In 2018, I had a EASA CPL-H with frozen ATPL-H theoretical knowledge, as well as a EASA PPL-A/IR-A
I asked Norway CAA back then what I needed to do to get a CPL-A with frozen ATPL, and was wrongfully told I could do The ATPL-bridge course (which is for unfrozen ATPL-holders).
After having completed the exams, I finished up the practical part and got my CPL-A, only to find that it was limited to non-ATPL privileges. I complained to no avail, and the tools working in the Norwegian CAA apologized for misinforming me.
After Covid hit, I did not do much. But lately I have been contemplating getting back into flying.
Once again I contacted Norway CAA to ask what I have to do to get a frozen ATPL-A.
This time I was told I have to do all the ATPL-A exams. That left me baffled. I have a full non-limited IR-A (no CB or EIR).
I thought those exams were the same and that someone who has already done them, would at least be exempt from those exams?
Can anyone fill me in with correct information or show me were in the rulebooks I can find some legit info? (Believe me, I have tried to look for it, but have been unsuccessful)
Much appreciated!
In 2018, I had a EASA CPL-H with frozen ATPL-H theoretical knowledge, as well as a EASA PPL-A/IR-A
I asked Norway CAA back then what I needed to do to get a CPL-A with frozen ATPL, and was wrongfully told I could do The ATPL-bridge course (which is for unfrozen ATPL-holders).
After having completed the exams, I finished up the practical part and got my CPL-A, only to find that it was limited to non-ATPL privileges. I complained to no avail, and the tools working in the Norwegian CAA apologized for misinforming me.
After Covid hit, I did not do much. But lately I have been contemplating getting back into flying.
Once again I contacted Norway CAA to ask what I have to do to get a frozen ATPL-A.
This time I was told I have to do all the ATPL-A exams. That left me baffled. I have a full non-limited IR-A (no CB or EIR).
I thought those exams were the same and that someone who has already done them, would at least be exempt from those exams?
Can anyone fill me in with correct information or show me were in the rulebooks I can find some legit info? (Believe me, I have tried to look for it, but have been unsuccessful)
Much appreciated!
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I think they are correct this time. Although the IR syllabus is a subset of the ATPL syllabus there are no credits for IR passes when attempting ATPL(A) exams. The (H) to (A) bridge course is for ATPL(H), but some Authorities will exercise discretion and allow a CPL(H) holder with ATPL(H) IR theory to take the exams to gain ATPL(A) theory. There's nothing available otherwise for someone in your position and it makes sense, a bit of a gap in the rules. What the Norway CAA probably should have done is have the courage of their convictions and not back-pedal on their earlier advice, but that's bureaucracies for you.
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I dont mind doing these exams again, but I do find it quite peculiar that EASA cannot credit the subjects containing the exact same syllabus from one to the other. I would love to hear some bureaucrat explain that one to me!
Comparing this to my FAA experience makes me envious of our American counterparts. At least they have these rules clearly cut out for anyone wanting to venture from one to the other.
Thank you!
If you are within 7 years of taking your last Theory test or last IR validity date.. so tell them to shove that idea of doing all the tests again. FCL025.c.2.
Having gone thru this exercise the otherway around ATPL(a) to CPL(H) with Bridge Course, I know how the FCLs have been written so the info you need is typically buried at the very end as a half sentence. I have held the Danish CAA to task by finding all the info and sending them screenshots of the FCL.
Having gone thru this exercise the otherway around ATPL(a) to CPL(H) with Bridge Course, I know how the FCLs have been written so the info you need is typically buried at the very end as a half sentence. I have held the Danish CAA to task by finding all the info and sending them screenshots of the FCL.
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If you are within 7 years of taking your last Theory test or last IR validity date.. so tell them to shove that idea of doing all the tests again. FCL025.c.2.
Having gone thru this exercise the otherway around ATPL(a) to CPL(H) with Bridge Course, I know how the FCLs have been written so the info you need is typically buried at the very end as a half sentence. I have held the Danish CAA to task by finding all the info and sending them screenshots of the FCL.
Having gone thru this exercise the otherway around ATPL(a) to CPL(H) with Bridge Course, I know how the FCLs have been written so the info you need is typically buried at the very end as a half sentence. I have held the Danish CAA to task by finding all the info and sending them screenshots of the FCL.
I am within the 7 year limit.
I checked out the reference to FCL 025 c 2 i and ii. As far as I can see, this only talks about the validity of the theoretical knowledge examinations one already has.
What I am looking for is a specification of any exemption to any ATPL-subject in the rule books for those who already hold an IR-A, if there are any.
In annex 1 (appendix 1) of Part-FCL «Crediting of theoretical knowledge» (which is a mess), paragraph 3 «ATPL» subpart 3.3 and 3.5 it states that an applicant for the issue of an ATPL(A) having passed the relevant theoretical examination for either a CPL(A) or IR(A), in both cases you are only creditet for the subject «communications».
The way I see it, EASA had made a hurdle with all of these exemptions and rules in Annex 1 to Part-FCL that confuses the heck out of anyone really. Its not remotely straight forward. The exemptions are varied from category to category, license to license with no real explanation as to why.
Its all at the whim of some bureaucrat to make these rules, it seems.
Its a mixture of bad english comprehension by the different CAA’s of whom many older employees dont have english as a primary language so dont grasp the nuances of the english written legal jargon, Also EASA simply pass the buck to the CAA again when asked about a definition eventhough its now legal. Trust me, when the day comes you screw something up, they will read the rules to the finest detail and nail you on it.. but funny how that does not work the other way huh?
but yes, Communication is the only one (previously it was 2 subjects, but they are now 1 as they added them together) to get credit for but whats the problem as you dont have to take any more tests
So.. if your 7 year limit is valid.. you hold a CPL(A) with an IR with all ATPL theory passed, then you now hold a “frozen ATPL(A)” already.. or am I missing something?
Maybe you should go fly an airplane and get your IR valid again, then you reset the 7 year thing and that should be enough
but yes, Communication is the only one (previously it was 2 subjects, but they are now 1 as they added them together) to get credit for but whats the problem as you dont have to take any more tests
So.. if your 7 year limit is valid.. you hold a CPL(A) with an IR with all ATPL theory passed, then you now hold a “frozen ATPL(A)” already.. or am I missing something?
Maybe you should go fly an airplane and get your IR valid again, then you reset the 7 year thing and that should be enough
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So.. if your 7 year limit is valid.. you hold a CPL(A) with an IR with all ATPL theory passed, then you now hold a “frozen ATPL(A)” already.. or am I missing something?
Maybe you should go fly an airplane and get your IR valid again, then you reset the 7 year thing and that should be enough
Maybe you should go fly an airplane and get your IR valid again, then you reset the 7 year thing and that should be enough
The bridge course I did, should have been CPL-theoretical level, not ATPL.
There is no «conversion» of frozen ATPL to ATPL as far as I can see. What I would have thought though, was that holding an IR-A or having done The ATPL(H) would have exempted me from the subjects that are 100% identical in the curriculum, such as Human Factors, Meteorology, Gen Nav, Rad Nav etc.
And thats what I have been trying to find in the rule books, and was curious to know if anyone in here could shed a light on.
I was in contact with a Norwegian ATO today, and they said that The CAA was correct, unfortunately.
Its completely moronic for sure, but thats the world of bureaucracy for you.
And I think you are spot on what matters the level of English in non-English member states trying to interpret judicial jargon.
This whole entire thing is an utter shambles and I still can’t believe it’s come to this. Utterly utterly ridiculous. What’s the point in icao when things like this are allowed to occur?
Also, if the ATO signed you off to do the writtens and the Authorities let you do the bridge course written 5 subjects, then I dont see why its your problem. I am assuming you have a stamped and signed physical copy of the written results?
