Which Uni, Which Course...
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Which Uni, Which Course...
Hi Guys!
Well, UCAS (Thats Universities and Colleges Admissions Service for the oldies) have just finished sending out all those reply letters, and it's now time to accept those offers!
So, which Wannabes are going where, and to study what?
I'll start, I've got into, and intend to accept, a place at the London Guildhall University to study Aviation Management and Operations.
Anyone else?
FJW.
Well, UCAS (Thats Universities and Colleges Admissions Service for the oldies) have just finished sending out all those reply letters, and it's now time to accept those offers!
So, which Wannabes are going where, and to study what?
I'll start, I've got into, and intend to accept, a place at the London Guildhall University to study Aviation Management and Operations.
Anyone else?
FJW.
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Well, I have chosen to go for Bristol Uni and study Avionic Systems Engineering, this was also partly because they have an excellent UAS. However the grades are high! (ABB) although achievable, and my insurance is Southampton for Aerospace Engineering <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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O.K. I hear what you are thinking but as an old hand, may I offer a few thoughts: First, no airline is going to offer you a job unless you are dead lucky with the pin in the sponsorship stakes or you can produce a CPL/IR/frozen ATPL and some hours of experience. I suggest that the degree should be a backstop in case you lose that flying job through no fault of your own. So choose a subject that a: you think you stand the best chance of getting a good degree in and that b: Will help you most getting employment. It might sound stupid to you but a qualification as a chartered accountant is an "open sezame" to jobs the length and breadth of the country!!! What happens if, in 20 years, you lose your medical? Degrees in aviation related subjects are all very well, but how many companies are there in the country who require the services of aerodynamic engineers. There is only one that I can think of and there are only in reality a handful. Why don't you consider your degree to be a means to get a job to earn the money to get your CPL/IR/frozen ATPL. Then you can still earn money while searching for that airline job and pay to maintain your currency as well. Don't forget that the latest trend is to ask you to pay to be considered, pay a fee to be interviewed and so on. We all hope that this trend fails to continue, but if we continue to get far more wannabees than the industry needs then it will, and sadly, he with the dosh will succeed.
best of luck - oh, by the way, my degree was in electronic engineering.
best of luck - oh, by the way, my degree was in electronic engineering.
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While I agree fully with what you say Pilcher (since I said the same last year on this forum) these wannabes have already applied and gone down an aviation route for a degree, so unless you guys have last-minutes thoughts and do a gap year, I wish you all good luck. What Pilcher says about the ACA (accountancy) is true though - a backup only comparable to a law qualification or technical postgraduate degree in getting you about the whole world.
I wouldn't describe any UAS as not top quality, but you certainly cannot beat NUAS.
[ 18 February 2002: Message edited by: Lucifer ]</p>
I wouldn't describe any UAS as not top quality, but you certainly cannot beat NUAS.
[ 18 February 2002: Message edited by: Lucifer ]</p>
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P.Pilcher, and Lucifer,
Thanks for the advice. As it happens I am currently on a gap year - and this will end in September when Uni starts. Incidently, my degree is specifically as a back-up for loss of license due to any reason!
As it's in airline management, and I hope to become a management pilot, should I lose the ability to fly, I fully intend to pursue/further a career in the management side of the airline.
Tom, from the choices you have made, would I be correct in thinking you are an engineer Wannabe, and not a pilot Wannabe?
Thanks for the advice. As it happens I am currently on a gap year - and this will end in September when Uni starts. Incidently, my degree is specifically as a back-up for loss of license due to any reason!
As it's in airline management, and I hope to become a management pilot, should I lose the ability to fly, I fully intend to pursue/further a career in the management side of the airline.
Tom, from the choices you have made, would I be correct in thinking you are an engineer Wannabe, and not a pilot Wannabe?
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I'd be wary of a "backup" plan that was also aviation-restricted. My ideal choice of degree would be something that gives you the skills and qualities to fit into a wide range of job opportunities, depending on what's available and where the best careers are.
And you need to interested in it and good at it!
Get that right, and it will pay for your personal aircraft and flying. Did for me, anyway.
And you need to interested in it and good at it!
Get that right, and it will pay for your personal aircraft and flying. Did for me, anyway.
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FJW
Best advice that anyone gave me is to make sure that you (a) try and avoid getting a Desmond, but (b) don't work too hard and make use of your free time (rather than watching Teletubbies, which is what my housemates did). That way when you're applying to BA after your degree you've got something that differentiates you from all the other graduates whose finest achievement was solving the Countdown conundrum...
Best advice that anyone gave me is to make sure that you (a) try and avoid getting a Desmond, but (b) don't work too hard and make use of your free time (rather than watching Teletubbies, which is what my housemates did). That way when you're applying to BA after your degree you've got something that differentiates you from all the other graduates whose finest achievement was solving the Countdown conundrum...
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Since by definition, wannabees are interested in only one thing, its inevitable that their degree interests are also aviation related. Nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with their thinking that I can see. The best degree to have is the best one you can get and that means sticking to something you're really interested in.
A few years in university, free flying lessons from the RAF and a good start on an aviation career complete with loss of licence insurance. Go for it chaps and leave the bean counting to the bean counters.
**********************************. .Through difficulties to the cinema
A few years in university, free flying lessons from the RAF and a good start on an aviation career complete with loss of licence insurance. Go for it chaps and leave the bean counting to the bean counters.
**********************************. .Through difficulties to the cinema
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If you are one of the great No. of people. .who finance all this themselves then it is of . .great benefit to get a degree that gets you. .a decently paid job and one that you can work. .part time as need arises ie weather seasonal downturns.
Nursing. .Teaching. .Dentistry. .Pharmacy. .IT. .Medicine ....
Engineering in the UK doesnt fall into the above . .category which is a great shame..
Nursing. .Teaching. .Dentistry. .Pharmacy. .IT. .Medicine ....
Engineering in the UK doesnt fall into the above . .category which is a great shame..
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do something you'll enjoy doing at uni, and yes if can get a backup career at the same time. but with any degree you can still convert into law etc. - but try to get a 2.1 at least and also have something for the BA Selection forms for that "leadership" question. Use your time wisely. go to a uni that has a raf squadron and get some flying in. not sure if guildhall does though. i know that ucl does and they are all part of the uni of london, so maybe check out uni of london uni.
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My contribution to this thread is that its better to gain a degree in something you enjoy firstly and secondly something that isn't directly connected to aviation. For instance taking a degree in Maths or natural sciences rather than something quite narrow like aeronautical engineering.
This way if a major downturn occurs within the aviation market and you lose your job as a pilot, you would also be very unlikely to walk into any aviation related job- be it avionics or airline management. Downturns tend to affect the whole aviation industry- from pilots, engineers to cleaners.
This way if a major downturn occurs within the aviation market and you lose your job as a pilot, you would also be very unlikely to walk into any aviation related job- be it avionics or airline management. Downturns tend to affect the whole aviation industry- from pilots, engineers to cleaners.
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I completed a survey last year for the Aviation Management and Operations course at LGU. It seems a great course to me, and more encompassing than its title first appears. It covers the whole basis of Aviation Law (good) and then builds on that up through Management Theories and all the associated "standard Business subjects" such as Marketing, Accouting etc. A good thing, it's about time Airline Managers had a knowledge of both sides, i.e. not being an expert in Aviation or Management, but both.
Me? I studied Transport at Plymouth (sadly no longer around due to their emphasis changing to Maritime Business), the course still exists in some places and I believe gave a more rounded Management degree than a specific BA Management.
I know it probably focussed my career at an early stage, but I firmly believe that a degree only assists with career choices for the first five years anyway (unless you're an Engineer say, although even the majority of those seem to end up in Project Management now!)
The concept of having a degree to "fall back on" baffles me slightly. If you're not going to stay active in your specialised field for the 20 years or so until you fall onto it, then you're going to be way down the list! To say that I could fall back now onto my Bus Transport Management theories isn't likely to happen as I've not touched (or even been on thankfully!) a bus since I graduated.
But at the end of the day, and in my SMT we're all in agreement, a degree represents a few things:
a) The ability to work on your own to your deadlines.. .b) A little extra maturity than comparatively aged individuals (that may be fighting talk where I come from!). .c) More logical thought processes.
I'm not saying that a good degree will always open the door, because experience still wins, but it certainly gives you a copy of the key to it.
Enjoy it! I would have loved to have been a student in London, that's the one thing I do regret!
If anyone doing a Transport/Aviation related degree needs some advice or ideas on anything, please drop me a line - I'd be happy to help (if I can).
Daifly.
Me? I studied Transport at Plymouth (sadly no longer around due to their emphasis changing to Maritime Business), the course still exists in some places and I believe gave a more rounded Management degree than a specific BA Management.
I know it probably focussed my career at an early stage, but I firmly believe that a degree only assists with career choices for the first five years anyway (unless you're an Engineer say, although even the majority of those seem to end up in Project Management now!)
The concept of having a degree to "fall back on" baffles me slightly. If you're not going to stay active in your specialised field for the 20 years or so until you fall onto it, then you're going to be way down the list! To say that I could fall back now onto my Bus Transport Management theories isn't likely to happen as I've not touched (or even been on thankfully!) a bus since I graduated.
But at the end of the day, and in my SMT we're all in agreement, a degree represents a few things:
a) The ability to work on your own to your deadlines.. .b) A little extra maturity than comparatively aged individuals (that may be fighting talk where I come from!). .c) More logical thought processes.
I'm not saying that a good degree will always open the door, because experience still wins, but it certainly gives you a copy of the key to it.
Enjoy it! I would have loved to have been a student in London, that's the one thing I do regret!
If anyone doing a Transport/Aviation related degree needs some advice or ideas on anything, please drop me a line - I'd be happy to help (if I can).
Daifly.
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Just to say watch out for those people going to uni as a wannabee.
If you want to go UAS (which all of us do then) and fly to get some experience make sure your RAF pilot/navigator fit.
There are very few UAS places due to cost and most of these are taken by people with cadetships and bursaries.
Else the rest of the places are filled with medically fit pilot/navigator wannabee's. If you are one of these lucky people then go for it as everyone says.
But if you are not medically fit and are not a person with a cadetship/bursary then UAS is not really an option.
By this I mean that you can still join a UAS but this will be subject to there being enough places (and there never is) and also you would be classed as a ground branch member who is entiled to about 4 hrs flying a year.
However it is not all about the flying and i'm told the UAS lifestyle and so on is out-of-this-world, so there's an upper.
cheers all
ps. anyone up for hour building/cost sharing in Shropshire in C152's drop me a line either to [email protected] or to the pprune mail.
If you want to go UAS (which all of us do then) and fly to get some experience make sure your RAF pilot/navigator fit.
There are very few UAS places due to cost and most of these are taken by people with cadetships and bursaries.
Else the rest of the places are filled with medically fit pilot/navigator wannabee's. If you are one of these lucky people then go for it as everyone says.
But if you are not medically fit and are not a person with a cadetship/bursary then UAS is not really an option.
By this I mean that you can still join a UAS but this will be subject to there being enough places (and there never is) and also you would be classed as a ground branch member who is entiled to about 4 hrs flying a year.
However it is not all about the flying and i'm told the UAS lifestyle and so on is out-of-this-world, so there's an upper.
cheers all
ps. anyone up for hour building/cost sharing in Shropshire in C152's drop me a line either to [email protected] or to the pprune mail.
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Daifly: what you know re the Embry-Riddle degree courses?
This question also for anyone out there to answer please. . .What is the industry perception of ERAU aviation degree qualifications?
Cheers. .Skaz
This question also for anyone out there to answer please. . .What is the industry perception of ERAU aviation degree qualifications?
Cheers. .Skaz
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I would have to agree with Lucifer. The City firms are apparently very keen on taking on graduates from an engineering field - especially aero. Its for all the usual reasons, meeting deadlines with very high work-loads, logical thought processing, working with numbers etc. There's no reason why an aero eng degree or any other engineering related degree should retrict your career choice (to a certain extent of course). But whatever you do, dont do an eng. degree if you're not interested in it at all - it will drive you crazy!
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If my failing memory serves me right, I managed to get a 2(1) BSc Hons in International Transport from Cardiff University. In the 8 years since I graduated, only one prospective employer (the RAF) has ever asked to see my certificate, and none of them have taken anything more than polite interest in what I did at university.
Working for a large (50k + employees) manufacturer, and having been involved in recruitment & interviewing, your degree subject really doesn’t matter. Leaving aside specialist areas (law, accountancy, engineering, etc), job descriptions in my company just call for “educated to degree level”. Full stop.
A degree evidences that you can work to a high academic standard - off your own back - and means you are likely to have good analytical and problem-solving skills. As such, it’s very useful for opening doors that would otherwise be shut (I couldn’t have applied for my present job without a degree, even though it could easily be done by a non-graduate).
More than that - and unless you have some really specific, specialist job in mind – don’t worry too much about the subject. Just find something you are interested in, preferably with some sort of business slant (which you can sell at an interview if necessary) and enjoy the experience.
Finally, don’t get too hung up on grades. The only time anyone is likely to compare them – if at all – is when sifting huge piles of graduate trainee applications. Once you have a smattering of work experience on your CV, employers are much more interested in that then whether you got a 2(1) or a ‘desmond’. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Working for a large (50k + employees) manufacturer, and having been involved in recruitment & interviewing, your degree subject really doesn’t matter. Leaving aside specialist areas (law, accountancy, engineering, etc), job descriptions in my company just call for “educated to degree level”. Full stop.
A degree evidences that you can work to a high academic standard - off your own back - and means you are likely to have good analytical and problem-solving skills. As such, it’s very useful for opening doors that would otherwise be shut (I couldn’t have applied for my present job without a degree, even though it could easily be done by a non-graduate).
More than that - and unless you have some really specific, specialist job in mind – don’t worry too much about the subject. Just find something you are interested in, preferably with some sort of business slant (which you can sell at an interview if necessary) and enjoy the experience.
Finally, don’t get too hung up on grades. The only time anyone is likely to compare them – if at all – is when sifting huge piles of graduate trainee applications. Once you have a smattering of work experience on your CV, employers are much more interested in that then whether you got a 2(1) or a ‘desmond’. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
