Flying in the EU?
Guest
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Flying in the EU?
Hey guys!
Well, first off, I'd like to introduce myself. I'm a 19 year old University student from Ontario, Canada. I go to the University of Western Ontario (very European-like), and am studying their Commercial Aviation Management degree program. I also hope to fly for one of the airlines in Canada some day.
My question is related to flying in Europe. I am hoping to diversify my time-building phase of my career, and would like to find work in Europe in the future. While I am still 3 years away from graduation, I'd like to find out some information.
The only problems I see, are that 1) I don't have a European Passport, and 2) I'm not sure if license conversion would be necessary.
Also, I'll say that my mother was born in Holland, home of the beautiful! She says she no longer has her European passport, though. Also, I have family in Holland, France, England, and Switzerland. Would they be able to help out?
Finally, are there a lot of jobs for non-major airline types? ie) flying freight, charter, cargo, etc, anything light.
Thank you everyone for your help. I really appreciate it!
Well, first off, I'd like to introduce myself. I'm a 19 year old University student from Ontario, Canada. I go to the University of Western Ontario (very European-like), and am studying their Commercial Aviation Management degree program. I also hope to fly for one of the airlines in Canada some day.
My question is related to flying in Europe. I am hoping to diversify my time-building phase of my career, and would like to find work in Europe in the future. While I am still 3 years away from graduation, I'd like to find out some information.
The only problems I see, are that 1) I don't have a European Passport, and 2) I'm not sure if license conversion would be necessary.
Also, I'll say that my mother was born in Holland, home of the beautiful! She says she no longer has her European passport, though. Also, I have family in Holland, France, England, and Switzerland. Would they be able to help out?
Finally, are there a lot of jobs for non-major airline types? ie) flying freight, charter, cargo, etc, anything light.
Thank you everyone for your help. I really appreciate it!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hi there uwochris,
I'll answer your questions as best I can.
1) The First step is to try to get citizenship by descent from a European Union (EU) country. This will give you that country's passport (in addition to your Canadian one), and full work and residency rights anywhere in the EU. Chasing you mother's Dutch ancestry is going to be by far the easiest route for this. I'm not sure what the laws are for Holland, but in the UK, to get UK citizenship automatically by descent you must have at least one British parent and have registered before you are 21 (can anyone else confirm this?)
If this fails, try to get residency and work rights with an 'ancestry visa': in the case of the UK, if you have a Grandparent who was born in the UK you can get a four year work permit very easily - a friend of mine from Toronto got one in three days due to having British grandparents on one side of her family.
Such an 'ancestry visa' is only valid in the country of issue, so if you got one issued in the UK, you could only live and work in the UK. What usually happens is that at the end of the four years, if you're in a job, settled down and have not got into trouble you get offered full citizenship and a passport, so this visa in effect is a four-year trial to get your British citizenship back.
Holland may have similar laws on this so might be worth a try as well. I'm not sure at all about Switzerland (don't forget that Switzerland is in not in the European Union).
If your ancestry is further away than your grandparents, you'd be best forgetting it, I doubt if any country would make a special case for relatives more distant than this, the UK certainly doesn't.
In this case, I'm afraid you'd be in with everyone else trying to get European residency (which would mean that either marrying a local or claiming refugee status would probably be the easiest way to get in
) As far as I'm aware few if any of the European coutries have residency programs like the Canadian/Australian/New Zealand points systems or the US green card lottery, mainly because Europe is populous enough as it is. There is some talk of starting a points system in the UK, however it's years away yet I would think. Currently if you are not married to a local, are not a refugee or an ancestor, the UK is only taking people of a very short list of professions in which the UK has a shortage (basically Teachers, Doctors, Nurses, and Computer specialists, not pilots )
Either way, give the Dutch Embassy and British High Commission in Ottawa a call and see what they say - my friend speaks very highly of the efficiency of the British High Commission in Ottawa...
2) This is a tricky one. I'm guessing that you'll have a Canadian CPL/ME/IR and in the region of 200-2000 hours TT with no significant multi-crew time?
If so you are looking at a licence conversion that will take up to a year and cost in the region of £20,000, that's around C$42,000, not including living expenses. Since all European countries are in the process of unifying their licensing system, this will be roughly the same wherever you go in Europe (might be a bit cheaper in Southern Europe).
An easier route, if it is available to you would be to stick around in Canada and get your full ATPL and as many multi-crew turbine hours as possible. This makes conversion a lot cheaper, although not much quicker since you still have a lot of theory exams to pass. If redsnail is around maybe she can help with details of how this route works as I believe she is part-way through converting an Australian ATPL this way?
Job wise, the UK is by far the best job market in Europe at the moment and it looks like it will be for some time. Airlines in non-English speaking countries will generally require you to be fluent in the local language, although I think there are a few exceptions to this, usually smaller airlines in countries with not very widely spoken languages (like Scandanavia and Holland).
Compared to the rest of ther world, it is common to get a major airline job flying large aircraft in Europe with fewer hours experience. The catch is that there are few GA jobs outside instructing in Europe and only the UK has a commuter market of any size (but still very small by North American standards), so although you will need less hours than elsewhere in the world getting those hours is not as easy!
Hope this helps!
foggy.
[This message has been edited by foghorn (edited 09 June 2001).]
I'll answer your questions as best I can.
1) The First step is to try to get citizenship by descent from a European Union (EU) country. This will give you that country's passport (in addition to your Canadian one), and full work and residency rights anywhere in the EU. Chasing you mother's Dutch ancestry is going to be by far the easiest route for this. I'm not sure what the laws are for Holland, but in the UK, to get UK citizenship automatically by descent you must have at least one British parent and have registered before you are 21 (can anyone else confirm this?)
If this fails, try to get residency and work rights with an 'ancestry visa': in the case of the UK, if you have a Grandparent who was born in the UK you can get a four year work permit very easily - a friend of mine from Toronto got one in three days due to having British grandparents on one side of her family.
Such an 'ancestry visa' is only valid in the country of issue, so if you got one issued in the UK, you could only live and work in the UK. What usually happens is that at the end of the four years, if you're in a job, settled down and have not got into trouble you get offered full citizenship and a passport, so this visa in effect is a four-year trial to get your British citizenship back.
Holland may have similar laws on this so might be worth a try as well. I'm not sure at all about Switzerland (don't forget that Switzerland is in not in the European Union).
If your ancestry is further away than your grandparents, you'd be best forgetting it, I doubt if any country would make a special case for relatives more distant than this, the UK certainly doesn't.
In this case, I'm afraid you'd be in with everyone else trying to get European residency (which would mean that either marrying a local or claiming refugee status would probably be the easiest way to get in
) As far as I'm aware few if any of the European coutries have residency programs like the Canadian/Australian/New Zealand points systems or the US green card lottery, mainly because Europe is populous enough as it is. There is some talk of starting a points system in the UK, however it's years away yet I would think. Currently if you are not married to a local, are not a refugee or an ancestor, the UK is only taking people of a very short list of professions in which the UK has a shortage (basically Teachers, Doctors, Nurses, and Computer specialists, not pilots )Either way, give the Dutch Embassy and British High Commission in Ottawa a call and see what they say - my friend speaks very highly of the efficiency of the British High Commission in Ottawa...
2) This is a tricky one. I'm guessing that you'll have a Canadian CPL/ME/IR and in the region of 200-2000 hours TT with no significant multi-crew time?
If so you are looking at a licence conversion that will take up to a year and cost in the region of £20,000, that's around C$42,000, not including living expenses. Since all European countries are in the process of unifying their licensing system, this will be roughly the same wherever you go in Europe (might be a bit cheaper in Southern Europe).
An easier route, if it is available to you would be to stick around in Canada and get your full ATPL and as many multi-crew turbine hours as possible. This makes conversion a lot cheaper, although not much quicker since you still have a lot of theory exams to pass. If redsnail is around maybe she can help with details of how this route works as I believe she is part-way through converting an Australian ATPL this way?
Job wise, the UK is by far the best job market in Europe at the moment and it looks like it will be for some time. Airlines in non-English speaking countries will generally require you to be fluent in the local language, although I think there are a few exceptions to this, usually smaller airlines in countries with not very widely spoken languages (like Scandanavia and Holland).
Compared to the rest of ther world, it is common to get a major airline job flying large aircraft in Europe with fewer hours experience. The catch is that there are few GA jobs outside instructing in Europe and only the UK has a commuter market of any size (but still very small by North American standards), so although you will need less hours than elsewhere in the world getting those hours is not as easy!
Hope this helps!
foggy.
[This message has been edited by foghorn (edited 09 June 2001).]
