Leeds Degree 2
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New Leeds Uni Degree
I agree with tmagee that the previous thread was incorrectly moved by scroggs. I e-mailed them a few days ago for information, and from what I can gather this new degree is aimed specifically at people who want to become profesional pilots, and is not an engineering degree at all but more an airline operations and management degree with a PPL and modules aimed directly at flying. If anyone else has any more information i would appreciate it.
Last edited by uniflyer2002; 7th May 2002 at 22:28.
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thanks for backing me up flyer. I think this could be something of real interest to wannabes. If you dont believe me check out the info leeds flying school - news
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Ok, you'd better tell me more about this course. Specifically, I need to know exactly how it fits into the Wannabes forum remit of topics relevant to the obtaining of a professional licence or first airline pilot employment. You'll note from my thread at the top of the forum that topics about PPLs aren't appropriate here. Topics about airline operations and management should go to the appropriate forum (I think it's Operations and Rostering, or something like that).
For information, this is what the link comes up with:
Leeds Flying School in partnership with the University of Leeds are pleased to announce the launch of a new BSc (Hons) Aviation Technology with Pilot Studies degree. This new degree will be based at the University of Leeds and will incorporate a PPL at the Leeds Flying School. Full details will follow shortly, for further information e-mail : [email protected]
You'll note that the title is Aviation Technology with Pilot Studies. Perhaps you can understand why I think it may be an engineering or science degree using PPL flying to validate or support the classroom studies. If it is in fact supposed to be a step towards an ATPL (and a PPL, for the purposes of this forum, doesn't count), then we'll keep it. If not, it goes. Remember, not all topics of interest to Wannabes are appropriate to this forum - otherwise we could have discussions about any and all degree subjects (and we have
). However, I'll leave this thread while I await your response.
For information, this is what the link comes up with:
Leeds Flying School in partnership with the University of Leeds are pleased to announce the launch of a new BSc (Hons) Aviation Technology with Pilot Studies degree. This new degree will be based at the University of Leeds and will incorporate a PPL at the Leeds Flying School. Full details will follow shortly, for further information e-mail : [email protected]
You'll note that the title is Aviation Technology with Pilot Studies. Perhaps you can understand why I think it may be an engineering or science degree using PPL flying to validate or support the classroom studies. If it is in fact supposed to be a step towards an ATPL (and a PPL, for the purposes of this forum, doesn't count), then we'll keep it. If not, it goes. Remember, not all topics of interest to Wannabes are appropriate to this forum - otherwise we could have discussions about any and all degree subjects (and we have
). However, I'll leave this thread while I await your response.
http://tldynamic.leeds.ac.uk/ugcours....asp?kpage=210
Looking at this:-
(1) It certainly wouldn't qualify anybody as an Engineer
(2) Or a Scientist
(3) Both courses list piloting as intended career paths for graduates.
To quote the entry from the "aviation science and pilot studies" degree...
"Career paths include airport operations, civil and military piloting, airline management, flight training and regulatory agencies. Graduates have the opportunity to continue with Commercial Pilot Training at Leeds Flying School after completion of their degree."
In any case, perhaps if you don't want Wanabee Engineers posting in "Wanabees" (not everybody reads the smallprint) it should be renamed "baby pilots" or somesuch.
G
Looking at this:-
(1) It certainly wouldn't qualify anybody as an Engineer
(2) Or a Scientist
(3) Both courses list piloting as intended career paths for graduates.
To quote the entry from the "aviation science and pilot studies" degree...
"Career paths include airport operations, civil and military piloting, airline management, flight training and regulatory agencies. Graduates have the opportunity to continue with Commercial Pilot Training at Leeds Flying School after completion of their degree."
In any case, perhaps if you don't want Wanabee Engineers posting in "Wanabees" (not everybody reads the smallprint) it should be renamed "baby pilots" or somesuch.
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 8th May 2002 at 16:30.
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As I understand it, the theory is that students will do the course with the intention of carrying on to ultimately become airline pilots. Your average PPL or engineering candidate probably won't be too interested. Such a course is specifically intended to give younger wannabes an aviation related degree and a start on the licensing ladder. Very relevant since most airlines seem to want a degree of some sort, preferably one that is relevant to the business. If I'm still around when the first intake arrives, I'll be teaching the poor sods. Any chance of an honorary BSc?
LOST
LOST
Last edited by G-LOST; 8th May 2002 at 19:19.
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What another load of rubbish to grace the higher education scene.
Goes well with degrees in Grass root science- for aspiring grass cutters (I kid you not) and golf studies for aspiring golf players (Again I kid not)
What next?
Goes well with degrees in Grass root science- for aspiring grass cutters (I kid you not) and golf studies for aspiring golf players (Again I kid not)
What next?
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G-LOST
While it's true that a degree may make you more likely to get an interview, I dispute your contention that 'most airlines seem to want a degree of some sort'. Perhaps you could point out to me and our members which UK airlines require pilots to have a degree? I certainly can't think of any.
Equally, no degree is required or even advantageous in the process of obtaining an ATPL. The studies required for ATPL are certainly no more arduous or intellectually demanding than A-levels (with the probable exception of General Studies), although they generally take place over a shorter time-period.
It would seem to me that, like football or golf studies, this degree course has been designed to capitalise on potential students' interests rather than their needs with respect to a flying career. It's possible that this course may have some relevance to aviation management of some sort, but it does not seem to be a course that the industry has asked for. And, as Genghis' somewhat ascerbic post points out, it doesn't seem to have much engineering or science worth either. In fact, it seems that its only benefit is to offer the opportunity to do a PPL while at university. I think that this is neither unique (there are many universities with flying clubs associated), nor is it likely to be free!
To conclude: I'll accept that the topic is worth posting about on this forum, but I suspect that the course is less useful than it first appears.
While it's true that a degree may make you more likely to get an interview, I dispute your contention that 'most airlines seem to want a degree of some sort'. Perhaps you could point out to me and our members which UK airlines require pilots to have a degree? I certainly can't think of any.
Equally, no degree is required or even advantageous in the process of obtaining an ATPL. The studies required for ATPL are certainly no more arduous or intellectually demanding than A-levels (with the probable exception of General Studies), although they generally take place over a shorter time-period.
It would seem to me that, like football or golf studies, this degree course has been designed to capitalise on potential students' interests rather than their needs with respect to a flying career. It's possible that this course may have some relevance to aviation management of some sort, but it does not seem to be a course that the industry has asked for. And, as Genghis' somewhat ascerbic post points out, it doesn't seem to have much engineering or science worth either. In fact, it seems that its only benefit is to offer the opportunity to do a PPL while at university. I think that this is neither unique (there are many universities with flying clubs associated), nor is it likely to be free!
To conclude: I'll accept that the topic is worth posting about on this forum, but I suspect that the course is less useful than it first appears.
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Thanks for hanging the messenger!
I've avoided posting on this forum for months due to the deterioration in standards around here and don't feel inclined to bother again. Whilst I accept that Scroggs is entitled to an opinion, I thought that the term 'moderator' implied someone who presided for the purposes of arbitration or mediation. Instead it seems he likes to have the final say on everything. Dictator would be a better title. Naive ppruners look up to the moderators and value their comment. Thanks for trying to sink the course before it begins with your well balanced and informed opinion.
I myself bemoan the myriad of 'degree' courses available out there. Having spent 7 years at University sweating my b*llocks off studying to post-grad level in law, I was more than a little peeved when then 'polytechs' got degree status and started teaching law courses which then watered down the status of my qualifications. But there's an argument that a wider pool of people are now able to study a subject that would once have been unavailable to them. Employers are still able to judge the merits of candidates and their little certificates.
Having said that, I wasted years of my life in a career that didn't really interest me. And one of the many reasons for that was the lack of other options available to me at the time I started out. When I left school there were very few options at university other than the traditional disciplines/professions. If there had been a degree course related to aviation available then, I would almost certainly have taken it and I have no doubt my aviation career would have kicked off a decade ago. Some people have the potential, motivation and ability to go to university in addition to doing the usual hard yards required to become an airline pilot. Nice for them to be able to combine their interest with disciplined study (and the best opportunity for years of wild partying).
Any fool can see that an airline recruiter faced with two candidates with identical hours will take the more highly qualified, or more 'rounded' one in terms of life or job experience. I have a contact in the industry who tells me that a degree is required, if simply for the purposes of culling CVs. One HR manager I spoke to said that it was more or less the norm now. No doubt there are exceptions though - an applicant who has done his time instructing, or whatever, will do better than a low timer with an MBA.
While a healthy scepticism is good, it seems a shame to rubbish a University that simply seeks to extend the options available to wannabes.
LOST
I've avoided posting on this forum for months due to the deterioration in standards around here and don't feel inclined to bother again. Whilst I accept that Scroggs is entitled to an opinion, I thought that the term 'moderator' implied someone who presided for the purposes of arbitration or mediation. Instead it seems he likes to have the final say on everything. Dictator would be a better title. Naive ppruners look up to the moderators and value their comment. Thanks for trying to sink the course before it begins with your well balanced and informed opinion.
I myself bemoan the myriad of 'degree' courses available out there. Having spent 7 years at University sweating my b*llocks off studying to post-grad level in law, I was more than a little peeved when then 'polytechs' got degree status and started teaching law courses which then watered down the status of my qualifications. But there's an argument that a wider pool of people are now able to study a subject that would once have been unavailable to them. Employers are still able to judge the merits of candidates and their little certificates.
Having said that, I wasted years of my life in a career that didn't really interest me. And one of the many reasons for that was the lack of other options available to me at the time I started out. When I left school there were very few options at university other than the traditional disciplines/professions. If there had been a degree course related to aviation available then, I would almost certainly have taken it and I have no doubt my aviation career would have kicked off a decade ago. Some people have the potential, motivation and ability to go to university in addition to doing the usual hard yards required to become an airline pilot. Nice for them to be able to combine their interest with disciplined study (and the best opportunity for years of wild partying).
Any fool can see that an airline recruiter faced with two candidates with identical hours will take the more highly qualified, or more 'rounded' one in terms of life or job experience. I have a contact in the industry who tells me that a degree is required, if simply for the purposes of culling CVs. One HR manager I spoke to said that it was more or less the norm now. No doubt there are exceptions though - an applicant who has done his time instructing, or whatever, will do better than a low timer with an MBA.
While a healthy scepticism is good, it seems a shame to rubbish a University that simply seeks to extend the options available to wannabes.
LOST
Last edited by G-LOST; 9th May 2002 at 06:58.
"Ascerbic", I like that word. I didn't get called Genghis for my gentle nature (are there any gentle natured Engineers?, not met many, it doesn't go with the job). I shall use it more often.
Most degrees, for most jobs, are only a rung on the ladder. Even an MEng is only half of the work to become a CEng. In that light, I can't see why somebody intending on an airline career shouldn't do a degree which gets them at-least partly equipped with a decent understanding of the task and industry. Many people, for good reason, have advised on Pprune that people should go for any degree that they'll enjoy - well learning about aviation and the airline industry for 3 years should qualify surely ! It'll also show an airline HR department a long term interest, which can't be a bad thing.
Given we live in a country still largely run by people with degrees in classical history, medieval english literature, et al, this seems to me at least a step in the right direction. Leeds is a well regarded University, and I've no doubt that anybody graduating will have worked hard and learned something (or at-least as much as somebody who could only get CCD at A-level can!).
As to G-Lost's law degree, there are at-least two ex-poly's from whom I'd rather employ an Engineering graduate than either Oxford or Cambridge ?
G
BEng Aeronautics, Southampton.
Most degrees, for most jobs, are only a rung on the ladder. Even an MEng is only half of the work to become a CEng. In that light, I can't see why somebody intending on an airline career shouldn't do a degree which gets them at-least partly equipped with a decent understanding of the task and industry. Many people, for good reason, have advised on Pprune that people should go for any degree that they'll enjoy - well learning about aviation and the airline industry for 3 years should qualify surely ! It'll also show an airline HR department a long term interest, which can't be a bad thing.
Given we live in a country still largely run by people with degrees in classical history, medieval english literature, et al, this seems to me at least a step in the right direction. Leeds is a well regarded University, and I've no doubt that anybody graduating will have worked hard and learned something (or at-least as much as somebody who could only get CCD at A-level can!).
As to G-Lost's law degree, there are at-least two ex-poly's from whom I'd rather employ an Engineering graduate than either Oxford or Cambridge ?
G
BEng Aeronautics, Southampton.
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G-Lost,
If you have post Grad qualifications in Law- a good subject to study, the question has to be raised why on earth do you want to study this rubbish? I am sure airline pilots over the last 50 years have coped quite well enough with out such a degree. Its nonsense- don't these higher education people realise that aviation has its own set of professional qualifications!! Besides if your that interested in the industry, why don't you study for a degree in Tourism and Leisure- another waste of time, meaningless futile degree.
This course is no substitute for work experience. Some airlines as part of their sponsorship actually place you within an Ops Dept and if thats your interest I'm sure you could go and get a job at an airport without degree in hand!
What is the world coming to I ask? It is absolute nonsense . I see jobs advertised for shop work now requiring an NVQ in customer services- apologies but I don't think it takes a qualification in something to learn basic good manners. This course is on the same par as that!!!!!
Save our education system for intelligent people studying proper worthwhile degrees.
As for the comment about not enough degree subjects, its just laughable. If I want to become a rock star does that mean I need a degree in rock star studies
If you have post Grad qualifications in Law- a good subject to study, the question has to be raised why on earth do you want to study this rubbish? I am sure airline pilots over the last 50 years have coped quite well enough with out such a degree. Its nonsense- don't these higher education people realise that aviation has its own set of professional qualifications!! Besides if your that interested in the industry, why don't you study for a degree in Tourism and Leisure- another waste of time, meaningless futile degree.
This course is no substitute for work experience. Some airlines as part of their sponsorship actually place you within an Ops Dept and if thats your interest I'm sure you could go and get a job at an airport without degree in hand!
What is the world coming to I ask? It is absolute nonsense . I see jobs advertised for shop work now requiring an NVQ in customer services- apologies but I don't think it takes a qualification in something to learn basic good manners. This course is on the same par as that!!!!!
Save our education system for intelligent people studying proper worthwhile degrees.
As for the comment about not enough degree subjects, its just laughable. If I want to become a rock star does that mean I need a degree in rock star studies
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Genghis
Agreed. Most graduates from the 'top' universities seem to lack in life skills. It's not until they enter the world of hard knocks that some of them improve. My point about studying for 7 years was not an attempt at an academic w*nk, rather I was trying to emphasise just how many years can be wasted pursuing the wrong career. 7 + 7 to be exact in my case. I'm sure that there are many wannabes out there who can identify with that.
ILS
You miss my point. I don't want the degree, I'm too weary. My comment was tongue in cheek, in the event that the powers that be read this post.
I did not consider the lack of options laughable at the time I made the decision to go to Uni. My parents wanted me to get a university education and I thought it was important too. How many others out there have encountered the same pressures? I suspect quite a few.
Fifteen years ago the choices were really quite limited. They are not now. At least Leeds provides a potentially useful alternative to rock star studies and/or the mainstream degree subjects.
LOST
Agreed. Most graduates from the 'top' universities seem to lack in life skills. It's not until they enter the world of hard knocks that some of them improve. My point about studying for 7 years was not an attempt at an academic w*nk, rather I was trying to emphasise just how many years can be wasted pursuing the wrong career. 7 + 7 to be exact in my case. I'm sure that there are many wannabes out there who can identify with that.
ILS
You miss my point. I don't want the degree, I'm too weary. My comment was tongue in cheek, in the event that the powers that be read this post.
I did not consider the lack of options laughable at the time I made the decision to go to Uni. My parents wanted me to get a university education and I thought it was important too. How many others out there have encountered the same pressures? I suspect quite a few.
Fifteen years ago the choices were really quite limited. They are not now. At least Leeds provides a potentially useful alternative to rock star studies and/or the mainstream degree subjects.
LOST
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G-LOST
I'm sorry if you feel I've shot the messenger; that wasn't my intention - and it wasn't you that brought this course to our attention, was it? My only argument with you was your contention that a degree is required by most [UK] airlines. That is simply not true. Yes, the fact that you have a degree may well be an advantage in the competition to reach interview, but commercial experience is a lot more valuable! The fact that degrees are not required by British airlines means that the choice of degree is entirely up to the individual and, in my opinion, should be aimed at improving one's employment chances if the aviation dream doesn't work out. There is certainly no evidence to suggest that an aviation-related (or management-related) degree makes one more employable as a pilot, but there's plenty to suggest that many of those who started out on aeronautical engineering, for example, in the belief that this would help them become a pilot, have seriously regretted their decision.
This particular degree would seem to be following the current fashion of pandering to students' hobbies and interests, rather than an industry-led effort to make people better-suited to their choice of employment. I have my doubts that it would be of any use to anyone wishing to become an airline pilot, but I am happy to accept that it may have some relevance to a future ops officer. However, City university does run far more obviously focussed and relevant (and expensive!) courses for both would-be pilots and airline management students. If you feel I've got the wrong end of the stick here, then please illuminate all of us with the true facts.
As for my moderation style, I won't lose any sleep over whether you like it or not! This is one of the busiest BBs on the internet, and requires robust and unequivocal policing. I am most certainly not a mediator; my task is much more pro-active than that. I am here to use my 25 years experience as a professional pilot (military and civil) to try and guide our Wannabes in a generally helpful direction. That must be a subjective process on my part, as it requires me to have, and state, opinions on what I think is useful and what isn't. As you are now well aware, I am less than convinced that this course is as good for Wannabes as it would appear to be at first sight.
I'm sorry if you feel I've shot the messenger; that wasn't my intention - and it wasn't you that brought this course to our attention, was it? My only argument with you was your contention that a degree is required by most [UK] airlines. That is simply not true. Yes, the fact that you have a degree may well be an advantage in the competition to reach interview, but commercial experience is a lot more valuable! The fact that degrees are not required by British airlines means that the choice of degree is entirely up to the individual and, in my opinion, should be aimed at improving one's employment chances if the aviation dream doesn't work out. There is certainly no evidence to suggest that an aviation-related (or management-related) degree makes one more employable as a pilot, but there's plenty to suggest that many of those who started out on aeronautical engineering, for example, in the belief that this would help them become a pilot, have seriously regretted their decision.
This particular degree would seem to be following the current fashion of pandering to students' hobbies and interests, rather than an industry-led effort to make people better-suited to their choice of employment. I have my doubts that it would be of any use to anyone wishing to become an airline pilot, but I am happy to accept that it may have some relevance to a future ops officer. However, City university does run far more obviously focussed and relevant (and expensive!) courses for both would-be pilots and airline management students. If you feel I've got the wrong end of the stick here, then please illuminate all of us with the true facts.
As for my moderation style, I won't lose any sleep over whether you like it or not! This is one of the busiest BBs on the internet, and requires robust and unequivocal policing. I am most certainly not a mediator; my task is much more pro-active than that. I am here to use my 25 years experience as a professional pilot (military and civil) to try and guide our Wannabes in a generally helpful direction. That must be a subjective process on my part, as it requires me to have, and state, opinions on what I think is useful and what isn't. As you are now well aware, I am less than convinced that this course is as good for Wannabes as it would appear to be at first sight.
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I think it is about time we had a response from the horse’s mouth so to speak. This course is aimed a filling a vast gap in the degrees available. It is meant for all those people (like myself a few years ago) who would other wise have taken on something like an aero engineering degree and regretted it. A lot of people have done aero degrees because of their interest in aviation and becoming a pilot and have had a shock when they actually do the course. This degree not only provides a more aviation-oriented program, but also provides subjects of much greater relevance to the ATPL's whilst also allowing people to obtain a subsidised PPL. For you to say that the degree will not help anyone in passing the ATPLs without knowing anything about it is a bit unfair.
I have to firmly agree with G-LOST, in that a degree is going to become increasingly invaluable as competition for jobs becomes greater and greater. To respond to some of what scroggs has said: With regards to the industry not being interested, this degree was established in consultation with both the RAF and the airline industry and has received their full backing. Both instructors and airline pilots have advised course content.
Scroggs and ILS27R, you both seem very quick to rubbish something you know nothing about, this degree is being provided by one of the highest rated Universities in the UK, and by a department given a Level 5 assessment last year (the highest level). Perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to judge something, which could prove to be very useful to many wannabes.
I have to firmly agree with G-LOST, in that a degree is going to become increasingly invaluable as competition for jobs becomes greater and greater. To respond to some of what scroggs has said: With regards to the industry not being interested, this degree was established in consultation with both the RAF and the airline industry and has received their full backing. Both instructors and airline pilots have advised course content.
Scroggs and ILS27R, you both seem very quick to rubbish something you know nothing about, this degree is being provided by one of the highest rated Universities in the UK, and by a department given a Level 5 assessment last year (the highest level). Perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to judge something, which could prove to be very useful to many wannabes.
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LFS
I did not rubbish the course; I questioned its relevance to would-be airline pilots. You say:
"A lot of people have done aero degrees because of their interest in aviation and becoming a pilot and have had a shock when they actually do the course. This degree not only provides a more aviation-oriented program, but also provides subjects of much greater relevance to the ATPL's whilst also allowing people to obtain a subsidised PPL."
I have no argument with the fact that people do take 'aero degrees' because of their interest in aviation, but, as I think you agree, the wisdom of taking those degrees is often questionable. I am happy for people to consider this degree if their primary concern is to satisfy their interest, but why do they need a degree that provides subjects relevant to the ATPL? Surely that's what ATPL courses are for?! Are you suggesting that graduates of this course would get credits towards an ATPL? I doubt it! A 'subsidised' (by whom?) PPL seems to me more like a selling point than a serious effort to set people on the road to a professional qualification.
As for a degree being necessary to improve one's chances of employment; I agree, but they are not demanded of pilots by the industry, and so the choice of degrees is entirely open. I'd also be interested to hear more about your consultation with the RAF (which also doesn't require a degree) and industry. Was this course proposed by those organisations, or did you decide to do it and then ask them if it would fit their needs? What needs exactly are you aiming to fit?
My points are that this degree seems to add little to the armoury of a would-be professional pilot that he can't get already from other sources, and that it may not equip him for an uncertain future as well as a degree that allows entry to an alternative profession should he not make it into flying. However, the more information you can bring to the public domain about this course the better our Wannabes will be able to judge whether or not it's for them.
I did not rubbish the course; I questioned its relevance to would-be airline pilots. You say:
"A lot of people have done aero degrees because of their interest in aviation and becoming a pilot and have had a shock when they actually do the course. This degree not only provides a more aviation-oriented program, but also provides subjects of much greater relevance to the ATPL's whilst also allowing people to obtain a subsidised PPL."
I have no argument with the fact that people do take 'aero degrees' because of their interest in aviation, but, as I think you agree, the wisdom of taking those degrees is often questionable. I am happy for people to consider this degree if their primary concern is to satisfy their interest, but why do they need a degree that provides subjects relevant to the ATPL? Surely that's what ATPL courses are for?! Are you suggesting that graduates of this course would get credits towards an ATPL? I doubt it! A 'subsidised' (by whom?) PPL seems to me more like a selling point than a serious effort to set people on the road to a professional qualification.
As for a degree being necessary to improve one's chances of employment; I agree, but they are not demanded of pilots by the industry, and so the choice of degrees is entirely open. I'd also be interested to hear more about your consultation with the RAF (which also doesn't require a degree) and industry. Was this course proposed by those organisations, or did you decide to do it and then ask them if it would fit their needs? What needs exactly are you aiming to fit?
My points are that this degree seems to add little to the armoury of a would-be professional pilot that he can't get already from other sources, and that it may not equip him for an uncertain future as well as a degree that allows entry to an alternative profession should he not make it into flying. However, the more information you can bring to the public domain about this course the better our Wannabes will be able to judge whether or not it's for them.
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For information, this is the Leeds University Coursefinder description of the course:
Aviation Technology with Pilot Studies BSc
(provisional)
UCAS code H460
This is a unique course within the UK which will provide graduates with the core knowledge, abilities and skills for a career in the airline industry or associated regulatory agencies.
Pilot training is provided to the level of the Private Pilot Licence and, together with other aspects of the course, is delivered in collaboration with Leeds Flying School at Leeds/Bradford airport.
Flight training scholarships are available to students who successfully complete the course.
Careers
Career paths include airport operations, civil and military piloting, airline management, flight training and regulatory agencies. Graduates have the opportunity to continue with Commercial Pilot Training at Leeds Flying School after completion of their degree.
Duration
3 years
Entry requirements
Normally 3 A levels at CCD More information
Admissions tutor
Admissions Secretary (SPEME)
Tel: +44(0) 113 343 2535
Fax: +44(0) 113 343 2549
E-mail: [email protected]
The School of Process, Environmental and Materials Engineering
The School of Process, Environmental and Materials Engineering is a unique combination of four disciplines: Chemical Engineering, Fuel and Energy, Materials, and Mining and Mineral Engineering.
The School integrates, within an environmental framework, the engineering processes from the extraction of natural resources to the fabrication and supply of end products.
What you study
The core of the curriculum is based on the Private Pilot Licence ground examinations syllabus together with the associated flight training, management and advanced components required for careers in the airline and aviation industries.
In addition you will take specialist modules covering the science and engineering of aviation and fuel systems together with general and crew resource management and the elements of physiology and psychology that tare required for work in high risk environments.
There will be visiting lecturers from airline companies and the aviation industry.
This course has the same structure as Aviation Technology and Management except that a pilot training module (instead of aviation business and management modules) is taken in level 2.
A description of the course can also be found on the department's website.
Learning and assessment
The course involves a variety of teaching methods including traditional lectures and tutorials. You will be assessed at the end of each semester using a combination of exams and course work.
Entry requirements
Normally 3 A levels at CCD, to include 1 from maths, physics or chemistry.
We take a genuinely individual view of applicants. The main criterion is the ability to be successful in the course chosen.
We invite all promising applicants to visit the School to discuss their preferred course and look around the School and the University. Visits by candidates prior to filling in their UCAS forms are also welcome.
Aviation Technology with Pilot Studies BSc
(provisional)
UCAS code H460
This is a unique course within the UK which will provide graduates with the core knowledge, abilities and skills for a career in the airline industry or associated regulatory agencies.
Pilot training is provided to the level of the Private Pilot Licence and, together with other aspects of the course, is delivered in collaboration with Leeds Flying School at Leeds/Bradford airport.
Flight training scholarships are available to students who successfully complete the course.
Careers
Career paths include airport operations, civil and military piloting, airline management, flight training and regulatory agencies. Graduates have the opportunity to continue with Commercial Pilot Training at Leeds Flying School after completion of their degree.
Duration
3 years
Entry requirements
Normally 3 A levels at CCD More information
Admissions tutor
Admissions Secretary (SPEME)
Tel: +44(0) 113 343 2535
Fax: +44(0) 113 343 2549
E-mail: [email protected]
The School of Process, Environmental and Materials Engineering
The School of Process, Environmental and Materials Engineering is a unique combination of four disciplines: Chemical Engineering, Fuel and Energy, Materials, and Mining and Mineral Engineering.
The School integrates, within an environmental framework, the engineering processes from the extraction of natural resources to the fabrication and supply of end products.
What you study
The core of the curriculum is based on the Private Pilot Licence ground examinations syllabus together with the associated flight training, management and advanced components required for careers in the airline and aviation industries.
In addition you will take specialist modules covering the science and engineering of aviation and fuel systems together with general and crew resource management and the elements of physiology and psychology that tare required for work in high risk environments.
There will be visiting lecturers from airline companies and the aviation industry.
This course has the same structure as Aviation Technology and Management except that a pilot training module (instead of aviation business and management modules) is taken in level 2.
A description of the course can also be found on the department's website.
Learning and assessment
The course involves a variety of teaching methods including traditional lectures and tutorials. You will be assessed at the end of each semester using a combination of exams and course work.
Entry requirements
Normally 3 A levels at CCD, to include 1 from maths, physics or chemistry.
We take a genuinely individual view of applicants. The main criterion is the ability to be successful in the course chosen.
We invite all promising applicants to visit the School to discuss their preferred course and look around the School and the University. Visits by candidates prior to filling in their UCAS forms are also welcome.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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I personally believe that Leeds uni and Leeds flying school should both be applauded in providing a wannabee pilot with the option to progress through an aviation related degree course whilst at the same time gaining his PPl and ultimatley progressing towards his chosen goal.
A degree in any subject will IMHO set the candidate above those without when it comes to the big C.V sift, but this will obviously come second to that of experience. I had a big ring around the regional's last week and was told that 90% of the C.V's on file were from candidates with minimal experience i.e 200hrs. So how are they going to sift? Academic qualification are the next best way. But then we have two people with a degree, one has a degree in cookery the other in an aviation related subject, which one now, the candidate that has shown a long standing interest in aviation or the good cook. Goes without saying really.
If I had my time again I would most certainly look into doing an aviation related degree. Just does that little bit more to set you out from the crowd.
The other advantage is that in years to come the aviation degree will assist the person to progress into aviation managment if s/he so wishes and my other point is and it is a BIG one is that it also becomes a safety net in the fact that if the person loses his medical then the qualification will assist the person to gain employment in the airline industry in another role utilising the wealth of experience he has gained in the aircrew side of things.
One last point:
I do agree with G-LOST in the fact we are not being moderated any more but rather dictated to. I feel that our right to discuss points,FTO's etc is slowly being removed.
Some of the moderators posts are becoming somewhat confrontational and arrogant. The initial moderators post on this particular discussion is of prime example, nothing personal Scroggs but I do feel there has definately been a change to the tone of your posts recently,just like to see the BB back to how it was.
A degree in any subject will IMHO set the candidate above those without when it comes to the big C.V sift, but this will obviously come second to that of experience. I had a big ring around the regional's last week and was told that 90% of the C.V's on file were from candidates with minimal experience i.e 200hrs. So how are they going to sift? Academic qualification are the next best way. But then we have two people with a degree, one has a degree in cookery the other in an aviation related subject, which one now, the candidate that has shown a long standing interest in aviation or the good cook. Goes without saying really.
If I had my time again I would most certainly look into doing an aviation related degree. Just does that little bit more to set you out from the crowd.
The other advantage is that in years to come the aviation degree will assist the person to progress into aviation managment if s/he so wishes and my other point is and it is a BIG one is that it also becomes a safety net in the fact that if the person loses his medical then the qualification will assist the person to gain employment in the airline industry in another role utilising the wealth of experience he has gained in the aircrew side of things.
One last point:
I do agree with G-LOST in the fact we are not being moderated any more but rather dictated to. I feel that our right to discuss points,FTO's etc is slowly being removed.
Some of the moderators posts are becoming somewhat confrontational and arrogant. The initial moderators post on this particular discussion is of prime example, nothing personal Scroggs but I do feel there has definately been a change to the tone of your posts recently,just like to see the BB back to how it was.
Last edited by STATLER; 9th May 2002 at 11:28.
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No Scroggs, I didn't start this thread. I'm just a humble instructor who thought he'd try and help out. Fool that I am.
However I'm sure that Leeds Uni will be pleased that there's interest out there, even if some might be negative. So keep the rant going and I'll just fade back into oblivion.
LOST
However I'm sure that Leeds Uni will be pleased that there's interest out there, even if some might be negative. So keep the rant going and I'll just fade back into oblivion.
LOST
Join Date: Aug 2001
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LFS,
The point of education is to produce a skilled workforce. Do you really think that this course will produce a better, more commercially aware airline pilot than someone who has not done this course? Further, has the market asked for such a qualification? I think both answers are no to that. This is just yet another "qualification" that universities et al have dreamt up. The reason is inevitably to bring in more money from the increasing masses. The words Mickey Mouse come to mind!
If you are indeed a budding airline pilot- what is the point of duplicating the syllabus for some of the licences- that you will need to do anyway! Does this course grant you an exemption from some of the ATPL exams?
If someone is interested in the industry side of things, study economics a proper subject. This will give you a well rounded education and you could, as Stelios did, always do a dissertation on the airline industry. Why someone would want to spend 3 years out of their life and countless thousands of pounds on something that they will do again later on (in the form of the ATPL theory) that will count towards their career aspirations beats me.
Anyway its yet again jobs for the boys!!!
Does anyone know what qualifications are required for a baggage handler? Perhaps a degree in logistics and baggage handler studies
The point of education is to produce a skilled workforce. Do you really think that this course will produce a better, more commercially aware airline pilot than someone who has not done this course? Further, has the market asked for such a qualification? I think both answers are no to that. This is just yet another "qualification" that universities et al have dreamt up. The reason is inevitably to bring in more money from the increasing masses. The words Mickey Mouse come to mind!
If you are indeed a budding airline pilot- what is the point of duplicating the syllabus for some of the licences- that you will need to do anyway! Does this course grant you an exemption from some of the ATPL exams?
If someone is interested in the industry side of things, study economics a proper subject. This will give you a well rounded education and you could, as Stelios did, always do a dissertation on the airline industry. Why someone would want to spend 3 years out of their life and countless thousands of pounds on something that they will do again later on (in the form of the ATPL theory) that will count towards their career aspirations beats me.
Anyway its yet again jobs for the boys!!!
Does anyone know what qualifications are required for a baggage handler? Perhaps a degree in logistics and baggage handler studies
Moving On
Join Date: May 2002
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I think you are missing the point slightly. By studying modules in subjects related to the ATPL's you are going to save a lot of time later on. A large number of people spend 12-18 months studying for their ATPL's having already spent three years undertaking a potentially irrelevant degree. With a firm grounding in the subjects your distance learning course can be cut in time by quite a lot. A very high number of students on numerous, more 'traditional' degrees such as economics or engineering end up getting bored stupid or finding the course too difficult and drop out. On my aero engineering course we started with a course of 120 people and by the end there were 50 of us. This degree is by no means a Mickey Mouse degree, it is an approved BSc (generally worth more than a BA), which would provide subjects that a wannabe would be very interested in and hence, be more highly motivated to succeed.
Last edited by LFS; 9th May 2002 at 17:41.
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ILS27R,
I really do believe you are shouting your mouth off without doing any back ground research into the degree on offer, and as for your last post its just an unimaginative wind up.
It will be nice to see how the course develops, all it needs is some support from a big player and NDB27R will be eating his words along with a few others.
As i said earlier better than a cookery degree and probably economics for that matter.
I really do believe you are shouting your mouth off without doing any back ground research into the degree on offer, and as for your last post its just an unimaginative wind up.
It will be nice to see how the course develops, all it needs is some support from a big player and NDB27R will be eating his words along with a few others.
As i said earlier better than a cookery degree and probably economics for that matter.