JAA Commercial Groundschool
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Euroland
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JAA Commercial Groundschool
Hello!
I want to achieve a pass in the JAA Commercial exams this summer. However, it appears as though the ATPL exams are the next step after the PPL. Can somebody please explain this to me?
Furthermore, I've been considering a course at OAT or similar, any recommendations or tips here?
p.s. how much study is required to pass the commerial?
Thank you!
I want to achieve a pass in the JAA Commercial exams this summer. However, it appears as though the ATPL exams are the next step after the PPL. Can somebody please explain this to me?
Furthermore, I've been considering a course at OAT or similar, any recommendations or tips here?
p.s. how much study is required to pass the commerial?
Thank you!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: West Mids
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VORTIME
I'm currently at OATS and can say hand on heart that the ground school is second to none.
I'm on the Modular route and is broken down like this:
Phase 1 - Tech subjects like Principles of Flight, Aircraft Systems, Mass and Balance etc... 8 exams after 16 weeks of intense ground school. 08:45 start - 16:15 finish, home and another 2.5 -3 hours study and I STILL didnt pass all 8
Phase 2 - Radio Nav, General Nav, Air Law etc...10 weeks ground school - 6 exams, same start and finish only MORE study in the evening, yet to take these.
So the OATS reccomendation aside in answer to your question "How much study?" - more than your worst nightmare!
Having said that its great fun studying your passion and lets face it, if it were easy everyone would be doing it.
The volume of information you have to take in and retain is vast so unless you are truly gifted in the study department I would have to suggest you take another look at your timeline of passing these exams "This summer", not impossible but you need to study for at least 650 hours (somebody please correct me if im wrong)!
Good luck with your studies
TBL
I'm currently at OATS and can say hand on heart that the ground school is second to none.
I'm on the Modular route and is broken down like this:
Phase 1 - Tech subjects like Principles of Flight, Aircraft Systems, Mass and Balance etc... 8 exams after 16 weeks of intense ground school. 08:45 start - 16:15 finish, home and another 2.5 -3 hours study and I STILL didnt pass all 8
Phase 2 - Radio Nav, General Nav, Air Law etc...10 weeks ground school - 6 exams, same start and finish only MORE study in the evening, yet to take these.
So the OATS reccomendation aside in answer to your question "How much study?" - more than your worst nightmare!
Having said that its great fun studying your passion and lets face it, if it were easy everyone would be doing it.
The volume of information you have to take in and retain is vast so unless you are truly gifted in the study department I would have to suggest you take another look at your timeline of passing these exams "This summer", not impossible but you need to study for at least 650 hours (somebody please correct me if im wrong)!
Good luck with your studies
TBL
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Surrey, England
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vortime,
The airlines are apparently only interested in the ATPL, so most people go to that direct. In fact until recently it wasn't even possible to get a CPL course for just that reason.
It is clearly the ATPL sylabus that The Boy Lard is referring to in his post. His description of it is absolutely correct. I'm doing ATPL at another establishment and everything he says has the ring of truth about it.
Unless you are academically brilliant, (especially in maths and physics) don't expect to pass all subjects first time. The passmark is 75% and it is oh so very easy to score 74% and have to do the exam all over again. All JAA exams are a sudden death playoff. There is NO latitude.
Best regards,
The pilot with the cat and a pointy hat.
The airlines are apparently only interested in the ATPL, so most people go to that direct. In fact until recently it wasn't even possible to get a CPL course for just that reason.
It is clearly the ATPL sylabus that The Boy Lard is referring to in his post. His description of it is absolutely correct. I'm doing ATPL at another establishment and everything he says has the ring of truth about it.
Unless you are academically brilliant, (especially in maths and physics) don't expect to pass all subjects first time. The passmark is 75% and it is oh so very easy to score 74% and have to do the exam all over again. All JAA exams are a sudden death playoff. There is NO latitude.
Best regards,
The pilot with the cat and a pointy hat.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Over here but sometimes over there.
Posts: 639
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am with Bristol and for me they are the best.Notes are very clear and well laid out.Work is split into frames which should take about one to two weeks to complete.Then I e-mail them the progress tests whick follow each frame.They are usually back within 24 hrs.
Bristol split the exams into a set of 8 then a set of 6 exams.So far so good....about to finish the course work for the second module.
Don`t under estimate the volume of work involved....IT`S HUGE .
The exams themselves are multi-choice,but don`t let that fool you.It`s very easy to run out of time in a number of the exams eg General Nav and Flight Planning.
It is down to the indivdual how long the exams will take and how much work you put in.Remember there is a two week brush up course before each set of exams as well.
Bristol split the exams into a set of 8 then a set of 6 exams.So far so good....about to finish the course work for the second module.
Don`t under estimate the volume of work involved....IT`S HUGE .
The exams themselves are multi-choice,but don`t let that fool you.It`s very easy to run out of time in a number of the exams eg General Nav and Flight Planning.
It is down to the indivdual how long the exams will take and how much work you put in.Remember there is a two week brush up course before each set of exams as well.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Dubai, UAE
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Im with Bristol, and i have found their package, and their tuition excellent. I have just completed my first 8 nav exams, and have passed them all first time......but i can assure you i worked my butt off to do that.
I work full time, and i had to study every evening, sometimes until 2am. I would allocate 2 full days per week to study as well. My social life nose dived completely, and my whole life revolved around the exams. You have got to have real dedication, and motivation. You really have got to want to do it, because you have to be strict with yourself as some days you just dont want to face it.
Although the Bristol notes are brilliantly written, ther are sections that are very, very difficult to take in, and lots that seem to have nothing to do with flying, and are boring. Learning something that is boring, in great depth is no fun.
Do i sound bleak...i dont mean to...i just want you to realise what you are letting yourself in for. I really had no idea, and it hit home very quickly.
When you think your ready you book your exams, and book your 2 week course at Bristol. This isn't a cramming course. It is a brush up course, but very, very informative with loads of feedback, and lots of mock exams. Here again you get out what you put in. I worked every evening after class until at least midnight.
Exams are very hard. You run short of time on Gen Nav, and Flight Planning. I was sure i had failed 2, but luckily i got them all.
If it's what you really, really want to do then go for it. Its as hard as hell, but you meet some great people, have ups and downs, and at times even doubt yourself, but, the rewards are so sweet when they come it will be worth every minute....best of luck
I work full time, and i had to study every evening, sometimes until 2am. I would allocate 2 full days per week to study as well. My social life nose dived completely, and my whole life revolved around the exams. You have got to have real dedication, and motivation. You really have got to want to do it, because you have to be strict with yourself as some days you just dont want to face it.
Although the Bristol notes are brilliantly written, ther are sections that are very, very difficult to take in, and lots that seem to have nothing to do with flying, and are boring. Learning something that is boring, in great depth is no fun.
Do i sound bleak...i dont mean to...i just want you to realise what you are letting yourself in for. I really had no idea, and it hit home very quickly.
When you think your ready you book your exams, and book your 2 week course at Bristol. This isn't a cramming course. It is a brush up course, but very, very informative with loads of feedback, and lots of mock exams. Here again you get out what you put in. I worked every evening after class until at least midnight.
Exams are very hard. You run short of time on Gen Nav, and Flight Planning. I was sure i had failed 2, but luckily i got them all.
If it's what you really, really want to do then go for it. Its as hard as hell, but you meet some great people, have ups and downs, and at times even doubt yourself, but, the rewards are so sweet when they come it will be worth every minute....best of luck
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: North West, UK
Age: 56
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: May 2002
Location: I wish I knew sometimes
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello ladies and gents. I would like to jump into this thread. Has anyone who reads this passed all 14 exams in one sitting? By this I mean over one 4 day period? I am considering it and here is why.
My schedule has me flying 7-10 days a month max. The rest is free time to study. I have 3 years of operational experience plus a solid aviation college (ATPL) background here in Canada. I plan on doing 500-600 hours of study. I have 5 months to do so.
I really only want to make one trip to the UK as well. If any of you think it is possible let me know. Those who think I am nuts, by all means say so!!!
Anyone know the October schedule for exams??
Cheers.......
My schedule has me flying 7-10 days a month max. The rest is free time to study. I have 3 years of operational experience plus a solid aviation college (ATPL) background here in Canada. I plan on doing 500-600 hours of study. I have 5 months to do so.
I really only want to make one trip to the UK as well. If any of you think it is possible let me know. Those who think I am nuts, by all means say so!!!
Anyone know the October schedule for exams??
Cheers.......
Join Date: May 2002
Location: cheshire
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just finished OATS
Just finished OATS, passed all 14 first time on the modular route, takes 26 weeks of full time study, plus 20 hours a week outside of college time to complete the workload.
To be realistic and honest, unless you have a photographic memory, what you are suggesting is very close to impossible. Do not take the groundscool lightly, academically it is not that tuff, but the pure volume is the killer.
Anyone from CBR03 out there?
Mark
To be realistic and honest, unless you have a photographic memory, what you are suggesting is very close to impossible. Do not take the groundscool lightly, academically it is not that tuff, but the pure volume is the killer.
Anyone from CBR03 out there?
Mark
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: West Mids
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G-RICH,
The point you made about academic level is probably quite correct, however you have to understand that for example in my case I hadnt had any formal "schooling" since leaving school and the was 19 years ago!!!
If youre fresh out of Uni then your brain is "up to speed" and the whole learning process will be a lot less painful than for some of us who havent experienced academia for quite some time.
At the end of the day its not impossible to learn the content, as said many times its the sheer volume of the subject matter, and please dont underestimate the fact that its multi "guess". Its not an easy ride and if you go into this thinking that it is youre in for a nasty shock!
Good luck and I hope you breeze it!
TBL
The point you made about academic level is probably quite correct, however you have to understand that for example in my case I hadnt had any formal "schooling" since leaving school and the was 19 years ago!!!
If youre fresh out of Uni then your brain is "up to speed" and the whole learning process will be a lot less painful than for some of us who havent experienced academia for quite some time.
At the end of the day its not impossible to learn the content, as said many times its the sheer volume of the subject matter, and please dont underestimate the fact that its multi "guess". Its not an easy ride and if you go into this thinking that it is youre in for a nasty shock!
Good luck and I hope you breeze it!
TBL
canadiankid'
I'm afraid I don't really think your idea is workable. There are plenty of other professional pilots from the military and other countries who struggle with 7 exams let alone 14. I think you'll find it a false economy because you're unlikely to pass all 14 and then you'll still have to plan on returning at a later date to finish them off.
I'm afraid I don't really think your idea is workable. There are plenty of other professional pilots from the military and other countries who struggle with 7 exams let alone 14. I think you'll find it a false economy because you're unlikely to pass all 14 and then you'll still have to plan on returning at a later date to finish them off.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: I wish I knew sometimes
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for your views fella's. Not really surprised as to the reaction. I am gonna give it a shot though. I have 5 months of free time (with the exception of the odd medevac). I was also fortunate to graduate from a 2 year aviation program here in Canada that is very similar in content to the JAA stuff. About 25% is new. I will admit, there is a ton of crap to remember.
Any other comments, success/failure stories or general feelings are more than welcome.
Cheers
Any other comments, success/failure stories or general feelings are more than welcome.
Cheers
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Dubai, UAE
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G-RICH
Save your money....learn your stuff because believe me Alex and his crew will give you so many quetions to do on the brush up yyou won't know whats hit you !! There is more than enough on the brush up for you to get it all sorted and ready for the big day
Save your money....learn your stuff because believe me Alex and his crew will give you so many quetions to do on the brush up yyou won't know whats hit you !! There is more than enough on the brush up for you to get it all sorted and ready for the big day
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Salop
Age: 57
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not wishing to 7500 this post, but as somone who in the not too distant future will be embarking on the JAR ATPL written odessey, I wondered if some kind soul could post a few (say 20-30) sample questions (with answers to follow). Having recently written and passed the Canadian CPL and who is currently studying for the Canadian IR written I'm curious to know how I'd fair coming in with no JAR ATPL study under my belt. Having said that, please don't misunderstand me, I'm not for one minute suggesting that I might be able to get by with little or no study as I fully intend to commit to the study program. Just curious if my current knowledge will help me.
Thanks in advance.
Cheers,
CG.
P.S. I'll let you know how I got on .... honest !!
Thanks in advance.
Cheers,
CG.
P.S. I'll let you know how I got on .... honest !!
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: Scotland usually, and often other parts of Europe
Age: 56
Posts: 826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Salop
Age: 57
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fly Puppy, thanks for the link. It's a bit of a mish mash however. Some of the links indicate the answer next to the choices and in others there is only one choice given (presumably the correct one - mind you on ATPL 1, Q15 suggests that the correct answer for a turbo super charger is the diversion of waste gases blah blah...... and it was my undrestanding that this is the principle of a turbo charger whereas a supercharger uses geared energy directly off of the crankshaft ...) and for the remainder, no way of finding out what the answer is on the link.
Keith,
I'd like to take you up on your kind offer of some sample questions. Thanks. I'll send you an e-mail.
C.G.
Keith,
I'd like to take you up on your kind offer of some sample questions. Thanks. I'll send you an e-mail.
C.G.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Salop
Age: 57
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G-RICH,
Thanks for your comprehensive overview of ATPL exam pre-requisites. I wasn't aware it was compulsory to go through a JAR approved school to study prior to the exams. However, this is how I'd intended to approach the exams anyway as I'd obviously need a sound set of up to date notes etc. In terms of popping across the pond to study ..... I'll be doing this, only it'll be on a permanent basis. After getting my feet back on the ground and several months of earning the approriate coinage I'll hopefully be ready to commit to a distance learning course, and yes, having been a regular visitor to this site for about a year now I've a pretty good idea of the 'preferred' options available for groundschool .
Cheers,
C.G.
Thanks for your comprehensive overview of ATPL exam pre-requisites. I wasn't aware it was compulsory to go through a JAR approved school to study prior to the exams. However, this is how I'd intended to approach the exams anyway as I'd obviously need a sound set of up to date notes etc. In terms of popping across the pond to study ..... I'll be doing this, only it'll be on a permanent basis. After getting my feet back on the ground and several months of earning the approriate coinage I'll hopefully be ready to commit to a distance learning course, and yes, having been a regular visitor to this site for about a year now I've a pretty good idea of the 'preferred' options available for groundschool
.Cheers,
C.G.
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: Scotland usually, and often other parts of Europe
Age: 56
Posts: 826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Canada Goose,
I believe that they ownr of that website is currently busy rebuilding and re-formatting the website. Nothing has changed on it in the last year or so. I guess it must be time to freshen it up.
I believe that they ownr of that website is currently busy rebuilding and re-formatting the website. Nothing has changed on it in the last year or so. I guess it must be time to freshen it up.
