Aeronautical Engineering Degree- What's it like?
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Graduated from Lufbra in 95 with a 'Desmond' in Aero Eng. I've been in the right hand seat for BA for three years and I have a funny feeling that I could have spent my time at Uni far more usefully to achieve the same goal. For example, by doing a course which didn't involve 30+ hours per week, having a social life, flying more often, etc.
An aero eng degree has very little relevance to the job of flying aeroplanes (unless you want to be a test pilot - even then you have to join the Air Force anyway), so have a life and enjoy yourself!!
PS: As far as becoming a manager goes, these are internal applications gained from anyone who is interested and doesn't want to spend their entire life in the air. Previous qualifications usually don't have a great deal of bearing.
An aero eng degree has very little relevance to the job of flying aeroplanes (unless you want to be a test pilot - even then you have to join the Air Force anyway), so have a life and enjoy yourself!!
PS: As far as becoming a manager goes, these are internal applications gained from anyone who is interested and doesn't want to spend their entire life in the air. Previous qualifications usually don't have a great deal of bearing.
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I'm an aviation professional, flying being a small but essential part of my job. Other than that I manage people and projects, approve aircraft design work, fly aircraft, inspect aircraft, etc.
In the course of this, I probably use 90% of my aero-eng degree (Soton). But, my various pilots licenses also get used a great deal, as do various courses I've done on aircraft servicing and inspection, management, etc. It's all cumulative.
If you ONLY want to be a pilot, Aero-Eng may not be what you want to be, if you wish to be a rounded aerospace professional, I strongly recommend it.
The first half of the course is tedious consisting of much theoretical maths, aerodynamics, electromagnetic theory, materials theory, etc. I'm sorry chaps, this this stuff is essential - no fun, but essential nonetheless. Later on, it all falls into place as you start to consider more specialist subjects.
But, the 4 year MEng is only half of the 8 years minimum to become a CEng, it's one of the longest slogs of any profession. Is it worth it? That's up to the individual, but I've no regrets, I have flown, crewed, or worked on getting towards a hundred aircraft types, taken many difficult decisions, and had huge satisfaction from their results.
If you want to get onto the RAeS, by all means do so. The commitees that set the academic syllabus are too-full of professors and not full enough of working Engineers. At the moment I'm preparing a paper to them recommending changes myself (and am in the happy position of having a few worthies like Darrol Stinton and John Edgley behind me), but don't think you'll change anything in your academic career - these things take years to work their way through, sadly.
G
In the course of this, I probably use 90% of my aero-eng degree (Soton). But, my various pilots licenses also get used a great deal, as do various courses I've done on aircraft servicing and inspection, management, etc. It's all cumulative.
If you ONLY want to be a pilot, Aero-Eng may not be what you want to be, if you wish to be a rounded aerospace professional, I strongly recommend it.
The first half of the course is tedious consisting of much theoretical maths, aerodynamics, electromagnetic theory, materials theory, etc. I'm sorry chaps, this this stuff is essential - no fun, but essential nonetheless. Later on, it all falls into place as you start to consider more specialist subjects.
But, the 4 year MEng is only half of the 8 years minimum to become a CEng, it's one of the longest slogs of any profession. Is it worth it? That's up to the individual, but I've no regrets, I have flown, crewed, or worked on getting towards a hundred aircraft types, taken many difficult decisions, and had huge satisfaction from their results.
If you want to get onto the RAeS, by all means do so. The commitees that set the academic syllabus are too-full of professors and not full enough of working Engineers. At the moment I'm preparing a paper to them recommending changes myself (and am in the happy position of having a few worthies like Darrol Stinton and John Edgley behind me), but don't think you'll change anything in your academic career - these things take years to work their way through, sadly.
G
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Rosco - Couldn't agree more with what you've said about Glasgow.
The lecturing staff are completely abysmal, and I'm pretty damm sure that this year's failure rate will be the worst yet
Anyways - suppose I'd better get back to those books - good luck for Wednesday Rosco, I know that I'm gonna need some!
Tunny
The lecturing staff are completely abysmal, and I'm pretty damm sure that this year's failure rate will be the worst yet
Anyways - suppose I'd better get back to those books - good luck for Wednesday Rosco, I know that I'm gonna need some!
Tunny
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First year Aero at Lboro..
Joined the course because i liked aeroplanes.. I have the feeling i am going to hate them by the time i have finished!
I would say about 50% of the people on the course are there cos they like aeroplanes, and those are the people who are struggling.
However, if you are a maths genius, its perfect for you.
I am not, and have been thinking "what have i let myself in for?" since about week 2
Joined the course because i liked aeroplanes.. I have the feeling i am going to hate them by the time i have finished!
I would say about 50% of the people on the course are there cos they like aeroplanes, and those are the people who are struggling.
However, if you are a maths genius, its perfect for you.
I am not, and have been thinking "what have i let myself in for?" since about week 2
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Hey Tunneler, I guess you are at Glasgow uni also. What year r u in? If ur in second year then ur in the same year as me and it also means u have an App Mech exam on Wed also?? If ur not in 2nd year, what year r u in? What do u want to get out of the course?
Rossco
Rossco
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rossco, tunneler
Genghis has made the most accurate and informative post yet regarding the role of an Aero degree in aviation. The Good Thing about an Aero. degree is that, as a pilot, it gives you something relevant to fall back on - you might need that when you get the first anomalous wobble on your ECG.
Even if you're not going to be involved in research & development, design & manufacture, an Aero. degree will equip you with a fundamental understanding that can be very useful to a pilot, whether a PPL or ATPL.
The Lecturing staff here at Glasgow try very hard to make the course interesting and relevant, within the constraints placed upon us by the RAeS and IMechE for accredidation of our degrees. We are very disappointed that you have resorted to defamatory and incorrect statements about our teaching abilities (or lack thereof), particularly on a site that is well-read by fellow-professionals. Pass rates and graduate employment records in Aero. at Glasgow are amongst the best around - we must be doing something right.
You don't need to apologise to me (since I haven't yet been involved in "teaching" you). However the 2nd year Adviser of Studies here at Glasgow is seriously miffed - an apology to him is definitely in order.
Genghis has made the most accurate and informative post yet regarding the role of an Aero degree in aviation. The Good Thing about an Aero. degree is that, as a pilot, it gives you something relevant to fall back on - you might need that when you get the first anomalous wobble on your ECG.
Even if you're not going to be involved in research & development, design & manufacture, an Aero. degree will equip you with a fundamental understanding that can be very useful to a pilot, whether a PPL or ATPL.
The Lecturing staff here at Glasgow try very hard to make the course interesting and relevant, within the constraints placed upon us by the RAeS and IMechE for accredidation of our degrees. We are very disappointed that you have resorted to defamatory and incorrect statements about our teaching abilities (or lack thereof), particularly on a site that is well-read by fellow-professionals. Pass rates and graduate employment records in Aero. at Glasgow are amongst the best around - we must be doing something right.
You don't need to apologise to me (since I haven't yet been involved in "teaching" you). However the 2nd year Adviser of Studies here at Glasgow is seriously miffed - an apology to him is definitely in order.
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ehm think someone may have got their wires crossed there India - Mike, I was refering to Glasgow Uni as a whole (which in hindsight is a bad thing) as we all know that as with all profesions you get the good with the bad.
I would have to say that the staff within the Aero department are SIGNIFICANTLY better than most of the other departments. However I have no desire to be drawn into a slagging match about any of it - I retract my post about the pass rate etc, put it down to feeling a touch blue about the forthcoming exams.
Just a genereal footnote thought - and I'd like to hear your opinion on this too I-M....
Does anyone else out there who is studying for any kind of degree (or has studied for degree) sometimes feel that the lecturer is only in the class merely to fulfil an obligation in order for him/her to continue with their research as opposed to wanting to teach???
Tunny
I would have to say that the staff within the Aero department are SIGNIFICANTLY better than most of the other departments. However I have no desire to be drawn into a slagging match about any of it - I retract my post about the pass rate etc, put it down to feeling a touch blue about the forthcoming exams.
Just a genereal footnote thought - and I'd like to hear your opinion on this too I-M....
Does anyone else out there who is studying for any kind of degree (or has studied for degree) sometimes feel that the lecturer is only in the class merely to fulfil an obligation in order for him/her to continue with their research as opposed to wanting to teach???
Tunny
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Does anyone else out there who is studying for any kind of degree (or has studied for degree) sometimes feel that the lecturer is only in the class merely to fulfil an obligation in order for him/her to continue with their research as opposed to wanting to teach???
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Does anyone else out there who is studying for any kind of degree (or has studied for degree) sometimes feel that the lecturer is only in the class merely to fulfil an obligation in order for him/her to continue with their research as opposed to wanting to teach???
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Thank you for the agreement I-M. However, I shouldn't damn these chaps out of hand for their criticisms (reminding you that you've recently publically critised quite a lot of people in a flying magazine !). There are still a lot of aero-lecturers who haven't the benefit of your experience in industry - and remembering my time as a student, they are rarely the best lecturers. I know of one department in the UK (which hasn't been mentioned in this thread, and I'm not going to name names) which now has no lecturers with genuine industry experience. When that is happening, and few Universities have a majority of lecturers who have worked in the real world, you've got to expect a certain amount of flack.
Having said that, Glasgow has got a very good reputation in industry, and I'd be happy to employ one of your graduates. I confess I'd be a bit reluctant where (say) Imperial is concerned, since from what I've seen it is much too mathematical with very little real world grounding. On the other hand, if I wanted a CFD modeller, that's probably the first place I'd look - horses for courses!
G
[This message has been edited by Genghis the Engineer (edited 21 May 2001).]
Having said that, Glasgow has got a very good reputation in industry, and I'd be happy to employ one of your graduates. I confess I'd be a bit reluctant where (say) Imperial is concerned, since from what I've seen it is much too mathematical with very little real world grounding. On the other hand, if I wanted a CFD modeller, that's probably the first place I'd look - horses for courses!
G
[This message has been edited by Genghis the Engineer (edited 21 May 2001).]
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Well, for those interested I have another story to tell that might be interesting for those considering studying Aerospace Engineering.
At Delft University of Technology in The Netherlands, we have one of the biggest and most well-known aerospace engineering faculties of Europe. The interesting thing is that two years ago the entire 5-year course got it's english equivalent. So it's now possible for foreigners to come to Delft and do their study following the english language course. One advantage of Delft over other aerospace institutions is that the whole range of aerospace subjects is covered and specialisation in a lot of areas is possible. (E.g. aerodynamics, flight controls and flight simulation, aircraft design and performance, structures and materials, aerospace management)
Furthermore in Delft much attention is paid to teamwork and from the first year on you will work on 'real world' aviation and space projects in project teams that are working together to bring the project to a good ending. Often the aerospace industry is involved in these projects and this makes it a great experience as a student.
Of course, as you will have noted in the previous postings, there's still a lot of boring math and mechanics, but that's something you will have to accept as being part of the game. (And in the end it can be very usefull, I discovered)
This is not intended to be an advertisement for Delft Aerospace, but I consider it a suitable option for those considering a career in aerospace engineering. Besides, Delft is a nice town to live and you will find students from all over the world here.
You might check out their website at http://www.delftaerospace.com/
For your information, I studied there from 1993 to 1999 and enjoyed it very much. I specialised in automatic flight controls and flight simulation. Currently I am being trained as an airline pilot for a big Dutch airline, but I still have great interest in the latest developments in flight control and simulation and hope that I can combine my future flying job, with some 'brainwork' as an aerospace engineer. Anyway, having an aerospace engineering degree and being a pilot gives you a pretty all-round feeling.
(To be honest, I have to admit that being (not so) busy in the cockpit, is a nicer job that doing calculations on your desktop, in a hot and steamy office, as I'm doing right now...)
At Delft University of Technology in The Netherlands, we have one of the biggest and most well-known aerospace engineering faculties of Europe. The interesting thing is that two years ago the entire 5-year course got it's english equivalent. So it's now possible for foreigners to come to Delft and do their study following the english language course. One advantage of Delft over other aerospace institutions is that the whole range of aerospace subjects is covered and specialisation in a lot of areas is possible. (E.g. aerodynamics, flight controls and flight simulation, aircraft design and performance, structures and materials, aerospace management)
Furthermore in Delft much attention is paid to teamwork and from the first year on you will work on 'real world' aviation and space projects in project teams that are working together to bring the project to a good ending. Often the aerospace industry is involved in these projects and this makes it a great experience as a student.
Of course, as you will have noted in the previous postings, there's still a lot of boring math and mechanics, but that's something you will have to accept as being part of the game. (And in the end it can be very usefull, I discovered)
This is not intended to be an advertisement for Delft Aerospace, but I consider it a suitable option for those considering a career in aerospace engineering. Besides, Delft is a nice town to live and you will find students from all over the world here.
You might check out their website at http://www.delftaerospace.com/
For your information, I studied there from 1993 to 1999 and enjoyed it very much. I specialised in automatic flight controls and flight simulation. Currently I am being trained as an airline pilot for a big Dutch airline, but I still have great interest in the latest developments in flight control and simulation and hope that I can combine my future flying job, with some 'brainwork' as an aerospace engineer. Anyway, having an aerospace engineering degree and being a pilot gives you a pretty all-round feeling.
(To be honest, I have to admit that being (not so) busy in the cockpit, is a nicer job that doing calculations on your desktop, in a hot and steamy office, as I'm doing right now...)
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Hi there,
i think I have caused some offence. I am sorry if it sounded as though i was making the lecturers sound awful - they are not - they are very decent guyz and i respect them for everything they know, coz they do know a lot. It's just some of them could maybe give a little more examples and things like that. I haven't breezed through the course and I do find it quite difficult, but I do not want to get into an argument about the lecturers - I just want to work towards my exams and get a degree. I have no disrespect towards my advisor of studies either - he is a great guy and a good laugh and teaches very well. I hope this has helped put this matter straight.
Rossco
i think I have caused some offence. I am sorry if it sounded as though i was making the lecturers sound awful - they are not - they are very decent guyz and i respect them for everything they know, coz they do know a lot. It's just some of them could maybe give a little more examples and things like that. I haven't breezed through the course and I do find it quite difficult, but I do not want to get into an argument about the lecturers - I just want to work towards my exams and get a degree. I have no disrespect towards my advisor of studies either - he is a great guy and a good laugh and teaches very well. I hope this has helped put this matter straight.
Rossco
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Oh my god...I can't believe what I'm seeing here!
Firstly, I graduated with a 2:1 in Aero Engineering at Salford. I did it, 'cos, as a lot of people have said, mad about planes.
Anyway, after hearing some of the commwnts here...
"It's difficult": Of course it is! If it was easy, then it completly devalues the meaning of a degree. If you work your butt off and fail, then you have my sympathy. If you loaf around and fail, then you got what you deserved! I managed to have 3 fantastic years at Uni; I worked hard and played hard.
"It's all Maths": Is it? Oh, that'll be the engineering then! Granted, Thermodynamics never really appealed to me, but the Flight Control stuff was interesting and RELEVANT to aircraft! If you have a good lecturer then he/she will inject interesting facts into their lectures...again, I found this really interesting.
As many others have said, if you want 3 'Freeloading' years at uni, then go and do IT ot Leisure Management. If you do have a genuine interest in the world of aviation, then get on a Aero Eng course; it's the best decision I have made so far in my life!
Depending on your chosen career path as a pilot, BA and the other airlines will know that you are focused and hardworking towards your goal if you have a degree such as Aero. Eng. If you go the 'self sponsored' route then some of the work covered in the degree must surely help you during the theory for the ATPL etc.
Besides, as my Dad always says...
"They can never take qualifications away rom you".
That's what I think anyway. Hope this helps with your decision...
3g
Firstly, I graduated with a 2:1 in Aero Engineering at Salford. I did it, 'cos, as a lot of people have said, mad about planes.
Anyway, after hearing some of the commwnts here...
"It's difficult": Of course it is! If it was easy, then it completly devalues the meaning of a degree. If you work your butt off and fail, then you have my sympathy. If you loaf around and fail, then you got what you deserved! I managed to have 3 fantastic years at Uni; I worked hard and played hard.
"It's all Maths": Is it? Oh, that'll be the engineering then! Granted, Thermodynamics never really appealed to me, but the Flight Control stuff was interesting and RELEVANT to aircraft! If you have a good lecturer then he/she will inject interesting facts into their lectures...again, I found this really interesting.
As many others have said, if you want 3 'Freeloading' years at uni, then go and do IT ot Leisure Management. If you do have a genuine interest in the world of aviation, then get on a Aero Eng course; it's the best decision I have made so far in my life!
Depending on your chosen career path as a pilot, BA and the other airlines will know that you are focused and hardworking towards your goal if you have a degree such as Aero. Eng. If you go the 'self sponsored' route then some of the work covered in the degree must surely help you during the theory for the ATPL etc.
Besides, as my Dad always says...
"They can never take qualifications away rom you".
That's what I think anyway. Hope this helps with your decision...
3g
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RE India Mike
I am an ex student of The University of Glasgow and have to agree. I spent several happy years there until I successfully completed my degree.
(India Mike - we met at Dundee a couple of years ago, I was there with my parents and you were flying your son. Remember me?)
I strongly disagree with Tunneler and Rosco. The course at Glasgow is one of the best in the UK and the lecturers are (mostly) friendly and very helpful, also having a good grasp of the subject they are teaching whilst trying to make, sometimes very dry material, into an entertaining and understandable lecture.
I have to conclude with the statement that although it is bloody hard work it is an excellent time of your life and very rewarding when you step up onto the dias to be awarded your BEng (Hons) Degree in Aeronautical Engineering.
Good night and Thank you one and all!
I am an ex student of The University of Glasgow and have to agree. I spent several happy years there until I successfully completed my degree.
(India Mike - we met at Dundee a couple of years ago, I was there with my parents and you were flying your son. Remember me?)
I strongly disagree with Tunneler and Rosco. The course at Glasgow is one of the best in the UK and the lecturers are (mostly) friendly and very helpful, also having a good grasp of the subject they are teaching whilst trying to make, sometimes very dry material, into an entertaining and understandable lecture.
I have to conclude with the statement that although it is bloody hard work it is an excellent time of your life and very rewarding when you step up onto the dias to be awarded your BEng (Hons) Degree in Aeronautical Engineering.
Good night and Thank you one and all!
Guest
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Forget it! I am at a college where we had a guy with an Aero Degree join the JAR66 Engineer's Licence Course. So far he hasn't managed to pass a single module (Maths, Physics, Materials, Fundamental Electrics, Workshop Tools & Practices). I believe he may have quit the course!!!! If thats the standard of Degree Engineer we are kicking out of Uni I'll stick with my HNC.
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My experience of my Aero Eng degree at the University of Manchester:
You'll never understand all of it. You'll never learn all of it. There's no getting round it, it's f***ing hard.
I found that it was all about learning how to pass exams. For this reason, for me the final year was by far the easiest 'cos I'd sussed the exam technique.
Go to every lecture. Learn the lecturer's style. Come revision time, my notes were riddled with post-it notes labelled 'Possible exam question', based solely on the attitude of the lecturer during that topic. I revised those topics ruthlessly the night before, and what do you know? They invariably came up. The signs are there if you watch for them...
Some people on my course worked damn hard and probably know a lot more about Aero Eng than I do, yet came out with 2:2's and 3rds. Me, I got a 2:1, did less work than anyone I know (apart from the drop-outs of course, and there were plenty of those) and had a great time along the way. And as you'll increasingly find out, the stuff you learn at uni is more than likely going to be next to useless in your career - you're going to end up a pilot (fingers crossed) or a manager (yeah, great) in the end anyway and the qualification means so much more than the technical knowledge.
There you have it - the bluffers guide to a degree. Makes a change from giving away BA's secrets now, doesn't it?
WGW
PS: To back up Lady Heath's retort to the lack of pretty women comment, I've met her myself and she's gorgeous...
You'll never understand all of it. You'll never learn all of it. There's no getting round it, it's f***ing hard.
I found that it was all about learning how to pass exams. For this reason, for me the final year was by far the easiest 'cos I'd sussed the exam technique.
Go to every lecture. Learn the lecturer's style. Come revision time, my notes were riddled with post-it notes labelled 'Possible exam question', based solely on the attitude of the lecturer during that topic. I revised those topics ruthlessly the night before, and what do you know? They invariably came up. The signs are there if you watch for them...
Some people on my course worked damn hard and probably know a lot more about Aero Eng than I do, yet came out with 2:2's and 3rds. Me, I got a 2:1, did less work than anyone I know (apart from the drop-outs of course, and there were plenty of those) and had a great time along the way. And as you'll increasingly find out, the stuff you learn at uni is more than likely going to be next to useless in your career - you're going to end up a pilot (fingers crossed) or a manager (yeah, great) in the end anyway and the qualification means so much more than the technical knowledge.
There you have it - the bluffers guide to a degree. Makes a change from giving away BA's secrets now, doesn't it?
WGW
PS: To back up Lady Heath's retort to the lack of pretty women comment, I've met her myself and she's gorgeous...
Guest
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Questions to ask yourself:
1. Do you **REALLY** like mathematics?
2. Do you want to be an engineer?
3. See 1.
If the answer to either of those is no, then I'd consider something else. I did it, and I wish someone had told me this beforehand. It's extremely hard. While your mates on other courses are getting away with 7 or 8 hours a week, you wont be able to meet them at the pub because you'll be in 9-5 a lot of the time, and will have a ridiculous number of degree exams to study for. If you want to fly, pick something nice and easy, and spend your spare time with the UAS.
And just to qualify the above, the academic staff on the course at my uni were second to none, and the course is rightly considered one of the best. But it is only for the dedicated.
1. Do you **REALLY** like mathematics?
2. Do you want to be an engineer?
3. See 1.
If the answer to either of those is no, then I'd consider something else. I did it, and I wish someone had told me this beforehand. It's extremely hard. While your mates on other courses are getting away with 7 or 8 hours a week, you wont be able to meet them at the pub because you'll be in 9-5 a lot of the time, and will have a ridiculous number of degree exams to study for. If you want to fly, pick something nice and easy, and spend your spare time with the UAS.
And just to qualify the above, the academic staff on the course at my uni were second to none, and the course is rightly considered one of the best. But it is only for the dedicated.
Guest
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Lady Heath?
mmmm
Nice lady!!!!
As for ladies on the course?
Some of the finest from the four corners of Britain and beyond!
And they are intelligent unlike the flakes studying arts!!!
But whoever mentioned dedication is right. If you want a worthless degree and to have no sense of acheivement when graduating then do arts but if you want to feel proud about your degree then Aero is a good un!
mmmm
Nice lady!!!!
As for ladies on the course?
Some of the finest from the four corners of Britain and beyond!
And they are intelligent unlike the flakes studying arts!!!
But whoever mentioned dedication is right. If you want a worthless degree and to have no sense of acheivement when graduating then do arts but if you want to feel proud about your degree then Aero is a good un!
