ALL wannabes please read! Truth about aviation!
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'I can't believe people on this board who say its great i've just got £30K from the HSBC'
Shut up you pratt, I will have you know I spent 3 hard years saving the money for my pilot training!! Enough said, I cannot even be bothered to waste my energy typing....
Shut up you pratt, I will have you know I spent 3 hard years saving the money for my pilot training!! Enough said, I cannot even be bothered to waste my energy typing....
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I am going to have to say something about this one as it involves me and G-Sixty you know who I am am.
With regards to the the JAaa thing - I do beleive that there are more pilots than there are jobs in the Uk and Europe at the moment. However it seems that at the moment that not everybody is dishing them out - ie BA et al...
It would be unrepresentative of things to say that people who left the course and di not get offers of jobs were weak - I think that they were just weaker than the strong candidates - for WWW to say otherwise would be unjust. Maybe some airlines are looking for somthings and some others is life and we will live like that but to suggest that some are incompetent is just blatantly unjust. Shame on you.
With regards to the the JAaa thing - I do beleive that there are more pilots than there are jobs in the Uk and Europe at the moment. However it seems that at the moment that not everybody is dishing them out - ie BA et al...
It would be unrepresentative of things to say that people who left the course and di not get offers of jobs were weak - I think that they were just weaker than the strong candidates - for WWW to say otherwise would be unjust. Maybe some airlines are looking for somthings and some others is life and we will live like that but to suggest that some are incompetent is just blatantly unjust. Shame on you.
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Let me just try and state a couple of facts for you all.
Anyone here can express an opinion about things that affect Wannabes. There is no rule that says that opinion should be sensible, well thought out, or have the agreement of any other person who reads it, as long as it doesn't stray into abuse or topics inappropriate for this forum.
While Flyboy11's post was a little immature, and very simplistic, it was just an opinion and, as such, entirely valid. I'd like you to note that all the vitriol and abuse came from those who disagreed with him, some to the extent of wanting the post removed. I'll leave you to guess which individuals I think less of.
If you want to conduct an intelligent debate, and have your posts taken seriously, think carefully about what you say and how you say it. Insulting, angry and bad mannered posts will not achieve your aim.
Anyone here can express an opinion about things that affect Wannabes. There is no rule that says that opinion should be sensible, well thought out, or have the agreement of any other person who reads it, as long as it doesn't stray into abuse or topics inappropriate for this forum.
While Flyboy11's post was a little immature, and very simplistic, it was just an opinion and, as such, entirely valid. I'd like you to note that all the vitriol and abuse came from those who disagreed with him, some to the extent of wanting the post removed. I'll leave you to guess which individuals I think less of.
If you want to conduct an intelligent debate, and have your posts taken seriously, think carefully about what you say and how you say it. Insulting, angry and bad mannered posts will not achieve your aim.
I say there boy
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Didn't necessarily disagree with flyboy/Ronch/whoever (if indeed he is one and the same), was just bored and exasperated with the old anti-JAA rant, and annoyed with his hectoring style, which makes me think he is the same person. It's the same style that OCB (who is now banned) uses down there in Jet Blast, although at least this one is aviation-related.
The subject has been done to death a million times, and has been pointed out time and time again, is completely academic to those of us with no green card and who want to fly in Europe, because we need to have a JAA licence.
If he is who I think he is, people have tried to reason before and have got nowhere. Hence the exchanges get very sharp, very quickly. I'm sure that if Flyboy wasn't Ronch he'd be very quick to deny my accusation - he's been surprisingly quiet thus far.
If we want to have a sensible debate about the merits and demerits of the two licensing systems, then personally I'm all for it, it's the purile "yaa boo sucks my system is better than yours I'm an FAA pilot I get all the girls I pity all you poor Europeans spending your Eurodollars......yellow tattoos on your dicks" that gets my back up and will draw a sharp response from me. Flyboy11 voiced his opinion in inflammatory terms. I voiced my opinion of who I think he is and what I think of his pet subject and his motivation behind it in equally inflammatory terms. Surely I am equally entitled to my opinions?
foggy.
[ 15 September 2001: Message edited by: foghorn ]
The subject has been done to death a million times, and has been pointed out time and time again, is completely academic to those of us with no green card and who want to fly in Europe, because we need to have a JAA licence.
If he is who I think he is, people have tried to reason before and have got nowhere. Hence the exchanges get very sharp, very quickly. I'm sure that if Flyboy wasn't Ronch he'd be very quick to deny my accusation - he's been surprisingly quiet thus far.
If we want to have a sensible debate about the merits and demerits of the two licensing systems, then personally I'm all for it, it's the purile "yaa boo sucks my system is better than yours I'm an FAA pilot I get all the girls I pity all you poor Europeans spending your Eurodollars......yellow tattoos on your dicks" that gets my back up and will draw a sharp response from me. Flyboy11 voiced his opinion in inflammatory terms. I voiced my opinion of who I think he is and what I think of his pet subject and his motivation behind it in equally inflammatory terms. Surely I am equally entitled to my opinions?
foggy.
[ 15 September 2001: Message edited by: foghorn ]
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I am sitting here at my computer laughing at this thread and the others in the past which were similar when you start putting it all into context.
This is nothing more than a kiddies argument!
"My FAA licence is better than your JAA licence."
At the end of the day a licence is a licence and if it allows you to fly for a living then why do we go round in circles bashing our heads together!
Need I say more?????
MG
This is nothing more than a kiddies argument!
"My FAA licence is better than your JAA licence."
At the end of the day a licence is a licence and if it allows you to fly for a living then why do we go round in circles bashing our heads together!
Need I say more?????
MG
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AH64 Apache
There you are! I was beginning to think you’d gone to live in that swimming pool!!
Scroggs
Fair comment, you are the moderator. If you think our friend’s postings are acceptable then so be it, but lets put his post and my reply into context. Anyone who’s been around Pprune more than a couple of months will know the colourful history of Ronchonner (and if Flyboy11 & Mechantloup aren’t the same person, then I’m Neil Armstrong). We also know that attempts to reason with him are either ignored or met with his own brand of vitriol. Such people will pop up in any cross-section of society, and if you don’t like what they say, just ignore them – it is, after all, only an internet BB, and we know what we’re going to get when we click on one of his posts. Up to a point.
What I took deep exception to (and still do) is that while we are watching horrific news footage of 767s being flown into buildings, while the victims have not even been counted, let alone recovered, when aviation is suffering its most traumatic week ever, and when the short to mid-term job prospects for wannabes are looking distinctly shaky, our friend considers it a good time to pitch in with one of his regular rants against the JAA, and anyone training under it.
If my reply betrayed a hint of emotion, well it’s been that sort of week. Under the circumstances, I felt our friend had crossed the line from harmless eccentricity into spitefulness. I said as much, and would do exactly the same again.
(Incidentally, many thanks for your help on the other issue).
There you are! I was beginning to think you’d gone to live in that swimming pool!!
Scroggs
Fair comment, you are the moderator. If you think our friend’s postings are acceptable then so be it, but lets put his post and my reply into context. Anyone who’s been around Pprune more than a couple of months will know the colourful history of Ronchonner (and if Flyboy11 & Mechantloup aren’t the same person, then I’m Neil Armstrong). We also know that attempts to reason with him are either ignored or met with his own brand of vitriol. Such people will pop up in any cross-section of society, and if you don’t like what they say, just ignore them – it is, after all, only an internet BB, and we know what we’re going to get when we click on one of his posts. Up to a point.
What I took deep exception to (and still do) is that while we are watching horrific news footage of 767s being flown into buildings, while the victims have not even been counted, let alone recovered, when aviation is suffering its most traumatic week ever, and when the short to mid-term job prospects for wannabes are looking distinctly shaky, our friend considers it a good time to pitch in with one of his regular rants against the JAA, and anyone training under it.
If my reply betrayed a hint of emotion, well it’s been that sort of week. Under the circumstances, I felt our friend had crossed the line from harmless eccentricity into spitefulness. I said as much, and would do exactly the same again.
(Incidentally, many thanks for your help on the other issue).
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There is nothing more boring and irritating than litening to a sad failure who can't deal with his own misfortunes, and so inflicts them on everyone else. What a boring and uninteresting world we would live in if everything anyone ever set there heart on, and had true ambition to achieve was never accomplished because we might fail, or because there are no jobs. Switch on guy...Life is not a rehearsal, and it's far too short. You get one shot at it, and i like the ret of the wannabes on this site are gonna have a bloody good try at it. I will do what i have set out to achieve, and that is through determination and the abillity to get up and try again when things are not going my way. No one said it would be easy. It's hard, but of course there are job's, just like there are for every other career in the world 
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What a load of abuse. You have over stepped the mark my friends! As for Tuesdays disaster, if you need that as an excuss to opt out of flight training then take it! As for the rest, I’m pretty sure that the JAA and the prospect of having NO JOB at the end is good enough reason not to bother for half intelligent people anyway.
You wannabes have to learn to accept other peoples views- which can differ from your own rather than throwing YOUR rattle outside your cot. This thread is a disgraceful example of what I was saying all along.
Accept there are NO JOBS in aviation. I am not alone here. Look at BA, AA, Continaltal and a whole host of others which are now SACKING PILOTS! IS ROD EDINGTON WRONG AS WELL?? I DON’T THINK SO!
Bury your heads in the sand and spend your money. But after YOUR training you will have to step outside the bubble and ACCEPT reality- THERE ARE NO JOBS!
As for the THEORY that YOU know all these people who have got JET JOBS, well I’m sure I also know some NASA astronauts to- through the 6 degrees of sepration nonsense.
Keep your flying as HOBBY, for fun. do aerobatics, but don’t start on the road to a JAA ATP! I love watching films but it doesn’t mean I want to become a film director does it?
As for the diatribe? The only diatribe is YOU going on about Ronchonner rather than simply accepting your LACK OR NONEXISTANCE OF JOB PROSPECTS! YOU would rather fill this bord up with storys about RONCHONNER than TRY to comprehend THERE ARE NO JOBS!
If spending 50K is your sense of fun, well spend it! But don’t expect to walk into a job! You would be better spending 5K on a JAA PPL [the FAA PPL COSTS HALF AS MUCH AS THIS!] and go down to Las Vagas and spend the lot in slot machines in 1 night!
I KNOW YOU KNOW I’M RIGHT!
You wannabes have to learn to accept other peoples views- which can differ from your own rather than throwing YOUR rattle outside your cot. This thread is a disgraceful example of what I was saying all along.
Accept there are NO JOBS in aviation. I am not alone here. Look at BA, AA, Continaltal and a whole host of others which are now SACKING PILOTS! IS ROD EDINGTON WRONG AS WELL?? I DON’T THINK SO!
Bury your heads in the sand and spend your money. But after YOUR training you will have to step outside the bubble and ACCEPT reality- THERE ARE NO JOBS!
As for the THEORY that YOU know all these people who have got JET JOBS, well I’m sure I also know some NASA astronauts to- through the 6 degrees of sepration nonsense.
Keep your flying as HOBBY, for fun. do aerobatics, but don’t start on the road to a JAA ATP! I love watching films but it doesn’t mean I want to become a film director does it?
As for the diatribe? The only diatribe is YOU going on about Ronchonner rather than simply accepting your LACK OR NONEXISTANCE OF JOB PROSPECTS! YOU would rather fill this bord up with storys about RONCHONNER than TRY to comprehend THERE ARE NO JOBS!
If spending 50K is your sense of fun, well spend it! But don’t expect to walk into a job! You would be better spending 5K on a JAA PPL [the FAA PPL COSTS HALF AS MUCH AS THIS!] and go down to Las Vagas and spend the lot in slot machines in 1 night!
I KNOW YOU KNOW I’M RIGHT!
I say there boy
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"The only diatribe is YOU"
yeah, right ronch
"JAA ATP" use of US terminology gives you away matey
Note that I'm actaully with mad_jock, the more wannabes you put off the more it helps me
[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: foghorn ]
yeah, right ronch
"JAA ATP" use of US terminology gives you away matey
Note that I'm actaully with mad_jock, the more wannabes you put off the more it helps me
[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: foghorn ]
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BA ain't laying off pilots yet.
You considered the cost of travel to the US to get an FAA PPL flyboy, inc residence etc?
The only positive thing I could say about your post is that it is good idea to have a backup line of work before embarking on such an expensive course, and have a means of keeping it current before the first job is obtained.
Gloating in other people's misery if indeed they are faring worse is not a good idea unless you want a good beating.
UK job prospects are at the moment far better than the US, and in the light of current events will be for the foreseeable future. Nobody expects to walk into a job, but perhaps you should research the UK system more thoroughly flyboy, and you may realise that jobs can be obtained with lower hours, therefore mitigating the disadvantage.
(PS get rid of the US is better than the rest attitude: you might learn a few things about politics and international relations which will prevent you getting a good beating)
You considered the cost of travel to the US to get an FAA PPL flyboy, inc residence etc?
The only positive thing I could say about your post is that it is good idea to have a backup line of work before embarking on such an expensive course, and have a means of keeping it current before the first job is obtained.
Gloating in other people's misery if indeed they are faring worse is not a good idea unless you want a good beating.
UK job prospects are at the moment far better than the US, and in the light of current events will be for the foreseeable future. Nobody expects to walk into a job, but perhaps you should research the UK system more thoroughly flyboy, and you may realise that jobs can be obtained with lower hours, therefore mitigating the disadvantage.
(PS get rid of the US is better than the rest attitude: you might learn a few things about politics and international relations which will prevent you getting a good beating)
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Freedom of speech.
Let him post.
JAA/FAA, pointless argument.
All those who DID get jobs reply to him.
I'll start you off. 250hrs self sponsored - air taxi. 1000hrs F/O 757. My company are just about to start interviewing for 'a significant number' of pilots for summer 2002, their absolute minimum for 757/A320 is 700hrs TT. If you think there are no jobs then there certainly isn't one for you!
Do your homework, training doesn't stop at 200hrs and a CPL. Anybody else got a job this year during these 'crap times'?
PP
Let him post.
JAA/FAA, pointless argument.
All those who DID get jobs reply to him.
I'll start you off. 250hrs self sponsored - air taxi. 1000hrs F/O 757. My company are just about to start interviewing for 'a significant number' of pilots for summer 2002, their absolute minimum for 757/A320 is 700hrs TT. If you think there are no jobs then there certainly isn't one for you!
Do your homework, training doesn't stop at 200hrs and a CPL. Anybody else got a job this year during these 'crap times'?
PP
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My instructor did, Pete. Seems ecstatic to have moved from a Warrior with me onboard to something carrying a bunch of hosties... 
(friggin' spellin' )
[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: Evo7 ]
(friggin' spellin'
)[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: Evo7 ]
I say there boy
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Two previous instructors of mine have gone on to jobs in the last few months, one to a turboprop and one to a 737. In the words of the song they're luvvin it luvvin it luvvin it....
foggy.
foggy.
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flyboy
Agree with you that the US system is a lot better (cheaper). But I wanna live and work in Europe for various reasons:
-normal food.
-girls with normal wt/ht ratio
-social security
-4 weeks paid vacation per year . How much you got over there, one, maybe two weeks per yr ?
Flying in the US is nice, but I'm not a European loser who has to search his luck in America.
Agree with you that the US system is a lot better (cheaper). But I wanna live and work in Europe for various reasons:
-normal food.
-girls with normal wt/ht ratio
-social security
-4 weeks paid vacation per year . How much you got over there, one, maybe two weeks per yr ?
Flying in the US is nice, but I'm not a European loser who has to search his luck in America.
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Leviathan,
I apologise for the "playground" tone of my post, out of order.
I agree that to ban someone's viewpoint because of its popularity or otherwise is not on, providing it's not abusive.
However, this guy keeps on banging the same old drum time after time after time. Once or twice ok, fair enough he's entitled to his opinion just like anyone else.
But at a time when wannabes maybe need a bit more encouragement back he comes again, never with anything new to add, nothing that will inform anybody of relevant information that could be of some use. Just the same old "JAA bad, FAA good, JAA bad FAA good" mantra.
Yes, I should know better and ignore him and in future I will; once again, apologies for my childish attack on you.
all the best,
GB.
I apologise for the "playground" tone of my post, out of order.
I agree that to ban someone's viewpoint because of its popularity or otherwise is not on, providing it's not abusive.
However, this guy keeps on banging the same old drum time after time after time. Once or twice ok, fair enough he's entitled to his opinion just like anyone else.
But at a time when wannabes maybe need a bit more encouragement back he comes again, never with anything new to add, nothing that will inform anybody of relevant information that could be of some use. Just the same old "JAA bad, FAA good, JAA bad FAA good" mantra.
Yes, I should know better and ignore him and in future I will; once again, apologies for my childish attack on you.
all the best,
GB.
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I think all Wannabes must take a step back and reflect on the events of the past week.
There are too many doomsayers in these forums but they ALL, I repeat ALL, have an ulterior motive. I personally admit that if I am asked directly whether it is a good idea to commence an ab initio course I would say without doubt ...NO. It reduces the competition for when I achieve my licence - there... we have accounted for about 80% of the people on this forum.
I am going to the states (IFTA have just received CAA/JAA approval for their 22 week groundschool with the exams in the States) They are approved for all modules - the only condition is 10 hours in the UK for the instrument rating. The events of the last week might (OR MIGHT NOT) ****** this all up.
As regards jobs, the airlines will always be employing the highest calibre candidates, picking initially from the, shall we say, better known schools but if you make the grade, and are prepared to work from the bottom up the market will improve dramatically in the long term - which is what we are all looking at anyway.
Me personally, I do not see the US/UK arguments as being a handicap - I will have to pass all exams first time and with high marks, I will need to excel in flight training and take home a nice recommendation and rely on the fact that I have a couple of languages under my belt.
All I want to do is fly - I will be quite happy to work as a flight instructor until the cows come home - there is a worse job you know - anything in an office or even on the ground.
Thats the end of my ramblings - what can I say I am an eternal optomist.
p.s. With a 2 year J1 Visa I can work as an instructor for over a year in the States clocking up a ridiculous number of hours due to the weather and earn a nice income for a year - yes yes yes - I know that 2000 hours in a Piper Warrior isn't exactly top notch but it all counts.
There are too many doomsayers in these forums but they ALL, I repeat ALL, have an ulterior motive. I personally admit that if I am asked directly whether it is a good idea to commence an ab initio course I would say without doubt ...NO. It reduces the competition for when I achieve my licence - there... we have accounted for about 80% of the people on this forum.
I am going to the states (IFTA have just received CAA/JAA approval for their 22 week groundschool with the exams in the States) They are approved for all modules - the only condition is 10 hours in the UK for the instrument rating. The events of the last week might (OR MIGHT NOT) ****** this all up.
As regards jobs, the airlines will always be employing the highest calibre candidates, picking initially from the, shall we say, better known schools but if you make the grade, and are prepared to work from the bottom up the market will improve dramatically in the long term - which is what we are all looking at anyway.
Me personally, I do not see the US/UK arguments as being a handicap - I will have to pass all exams first time and with high marks, I will need to excel in flight training and take home a nice recommendation and rely on the fact that I have a couple of languages under my belt.
All I want to do is fly - I will be quite happy to work as a flight instructor until the cows come home - there is a worse job you know - anything in an office or even on the ground.
Thats the end of my ramblings - what can I say I am an eternal optomist.
p.s. With a 2 year J1 Visa I can work as an instructor for over a year in the States clocking up a ridiculous number of hours due to the weather and earn a nice income for a year - yes yes yes - I know that 2000 hours in a Piper Warrior isn't exactly top notch but it all counts.
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"I personally admit that if I am asked directly whether it is a good idea to commence an ab initio course I would say without doubt ...NO. It reduces the competition for when I achieve my licence - there... we have accounted for about 80% of the people on this forum."
Well I certainly hope that anyone else in such a quandary DOESN'T ask for your opinion. I thought this was a forum for for people with the same goals, passing on honest opinions and advice. A major requirement of an airline pilot is the ability to function in a team, I hope you pick up this skill during your training.
I was planning on starting an ab initio course in January, but will probably hold off until the summer - so there's one less "competitor" for you....
Well I certainly hope that anyone else in such a quandary DOESN'T ask for your opinion. I thought this was a forum for for people with the same goals, passing on honest opinions and advice. A major requirement of an airline pilot is the ability to function in a team, I hope you pick up this skill during your training.
I was planning on starting an ab initio course in January, but will probably hold off until the summer - so there's one less "competitor" for you....
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Flyerphil,
Sorry to get off topic, but you don't appear to have an email address. Could you tell me IFTA's website address if they have one. I've tried the obvious things, the CAA don't have it in their school directory and IFTA published an advert in an aviation magazine recently which had a URL that went nowhere.
OK sorry, you can all get back to your Ronch-bashing now. Have fun!
Sorry to get off topic, but you don't appear to have an email address. Could you tell me IFTA's website address if they have one. I've tried the obvious things, the CAA don't have it in their school directory and IFTA published an advert in an aviation magazine recently which had a URL that went nowhere.
OK sorry, you can all get back to your Ronch-bashing now. Have fun!