Tips on how not to waste hour building after the PPL?
Bearcat,
Unless your school dictates something different, visual flying can be accomplished from any reference point. A VRP is simply there because it stands out and forms part of a "controlled" flow of traffic - that is, everyone with a map will know exactly where you are if you use them; and if in controlled airspace, the controllers will not have to find a topo map. In the non-training environment if a VRP is there, its best to use it but if not, use something else!
I was taught to use anything that was on the map and that was likely to stand out - for example a unique bend in a river, a 4-way intersection, and island or cove - something that you could not possibly miss from altitude. It always worked well for me.
As for the spacing of reference points, like I said before they occur regularly in IFR flying. In VFR flying you do want them closer to one another - within about 20 miles or so - because any further and you run the risk of flying off course (but then, if you use the 10* drift lines this becomes slightly less of an issue). I was taught that for VFR if you are overhead one point and cannot pick out your next point with certainty, then your points are too far apart.
Hope this helps!
Unless your school dictates something different, visual flying can be accomplished from any reference point. A VRP is simply there because it stands out and forms part of a "controlled" flow of traffic - that is, everyone with a map will know exactly where you are if you use them; and if in controlled airspace, the controllers will not have to find a topo map. In the non-training environment if a VRP is there, its best to use it but if not, use something else!
I was taught to use anything that was on the map and that was likely to stand out - for example a unique bend in a river, a 4-way intersection, and island or cove - something that you could not possibly miss from altitude. It always worked well for me.
As for the spacing of reference points, like I said before they occur regularly in IFR flying. In VFR flying you do want them closer to one another - within about 20 miles or so - because any further and you run the risk of flying off course (but then, if you use the 10* drift lines this becomes slightly less of an issue). I was taught that for VFR if you are overhead one point and cannot pick out your next point with certainty, then your points are too far apart.
Hope this helps!
I was taught that for VFR if you are overhead one point and cannot pick out your next point with certainty, then your points are too far apart.
Given that a JAR-FCL or part-FCL PPL holder is legally permitted, if below 3000 ft a.m.s.l and 140 KIAS and in sight of the surface, to fly in only 1500m in-flight visibility, your 'technique' would require fixes every 1500m - which at 90KIAS would mean a visual fix point every 32 seconds....
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Good recommendation - how about sth else?
How about if you get an introduction to taildraggers and aerobatics? As long as it's tax deductible, it will help you with stick & rudder basic skills, be fun and you are probably at the right stage to to take as much knowledge out of experienced instructors as you'll ever be?
Instrument stuff is best practised on the ground first anyhow, as mentioned above, flight sim and FNPT get you much further than watching NDB and VOR needles (and I doubt most hour-building aircraft have an HSI with glide slope indications - if I am wrong then of course use that excessively with an experienced pilot beside you as mentioned before by those great answers you got before).
Instrument stuff is best practised on the ground first anyhow, as mentioned above, flight sim and FNPT get you much further than watching NDB and VOR needles (and I doubt most hour-building aircraft have an HSI with glide slope indications - if I am wrong then of course use that excessively with an experienced pilot beside you as mentioned before by those great answers you got before).
Quote: "I was taught that for VFR if you are overhead one point and cannot pick out your next point with certainty, then your points are too far apart."
Well, that piece of nonsense is a new one on me!
Given that a JAR-FCL or part-FCL PPL holder is legally permitted, if below 3000 ft a.m.s.l and 140 KIAS and in sight of the surface, to fly in only 1500m in-flight visibility, your 'technique' would require fixes every 1500m - which at 90KIAS would mean a visual fix point every 32 seconds....
Well, that piece of nonsense is a new one on me!
Given that a JAR-FCL or part-FCL PPL holder is legally permitted, if below 3000 ft a.m.s.l and 140 KIAS and in sight of the surface, to fly in only 1500m in-flight visibility, your 'technique' would require fixes every 1500m - which at 90KIAS would mean a visual fix point every 32 seconds....
In fact, the PPL skills test proves that statement to be incorrect.
"The navigation route will normally require 2 legs; each leg should be sufficiently long to require at least one visual fix during the leg and would therefore be of 15-25 minutes duration."
If you can see your destination you aren't really navigating with the DR method. The point of calculating your track, taking into account drift and calculating your heading is to test the skill of pointing the aircraft into the haze ( still > VFR minima ) and arriving at your destination close to your timed estimate.
I did my skills test in 8k viz and although it was a bit nerve wracking, I think the fact that I was forced to fly my heading and couldn't see very far into the distance stopped me second guessing myself.
Last edited by Fostex; 13th Jun 2012 at 10:33.
Common sense is that your leg has regular references that allow visual cross-checking of position, but that's not the same thing as being able to see every point from the last.
Using a reference point close to the airfield as a route starting point is useful and sensible, and likely to be heavily encouraged. For example, I did my CPL from EGTC and we usually used a sticky-out bit of either Milton Keynes or Bedford, depending upon what direction we were going. This allows the route to start with positioning and climbing done.
In the real world (as opposed to VFR nav exercises) I usually start my trips from EGTC in my own aeroplane intercepting a radial of CFD VOR a few miles out. This works very well, but wouldn't be acceptable on a CPL skill test, which is 80% about VFR DR nav.
On the other hand, having another aeroplane share at EGTB (and doing a little teaching there), where the nearest beacon is 11 miles away, the aeroplane usually doesn't have any serviceable navaids except GPS, and several routes out would take me lower than I wish in an SEP over High Wycombe, I generally start and end routes at Stokenchurch mast, then use DR / GPS / or radials to or from an en-route navaids from there.
Horses for courses, but for passing VFR skill tests my EGTB real world practice is closer to best practice than my real world practice at EGTC.
G
Using a reference point close to the airfield as a route starting point is useful and sensible, and likely to be heavily encouraged. For example, I did my CPL from EGTC and we usually used a sticky-out bit of either Milton Keynes or Bedford, depending upon what direction we were going. This allows the route to start with positioning and climbing done.
In the real world (as opposed to VFR nav exercises) I usually start my trips from EGTC in my own aeroplane intercepting a radial of CFD VOR a few miles out. This works very well, but wouldn't be acceptable on a CPL skill test, which is 80% about VFR DR nav.
On the other hand, having another aeroplane share at EGTB (and doing a little teaching there), where the nearest beacon is 11 miles away, the aeroplane usually doesn't have any serviceable navaids except GPS, and several routes out would take me lower than I wish in an SEP over High Wycombe, I generally start and end routes at Stokenchurch mast, then use DR / GPS / or radials to or from an en-route navaids from there.
Horses for courses, but for passing VFR skill tests my EGTB real world practice is closer to best practice than my real world practice at EGTC.
G
A further thought - I developed my own preferred PLOG for my CPL skill test; this was acceptable to both the school and the examiner.
Using your hourbuilding to develop your preference in PLOG and kneeboard information use/carriage may do you no harm.
PM me an email address, and you're welcome to a copy of the one that I passed my CPL skill test with. (I designed it in A4 in Word, and just print it in A5 using the "2 pages to a sheet" option).
G
Using your hourbuilding to develop your preference in PLOG and kneeboard information use/carriage may do you no harm.
PM me an email address, and you're welcome to a copy of the one that I passed my CPL skill test with. (I designed it in A4 in Word, and just print it in A5 using the "2 pages to a sheet" option).
G
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Hi Bearcat,
This might not be too relevant to you as my training has all been done in Australia but what I can say from experience here is get as much DR navigation practice as you can.
A lot of the time as a student you tend to have a comfort zone when it comes to flying...flying circuits, in the local training area etc. As you progress to CPL you'll have to be comfortable flying into airports you haven't been to before and in airspace you might not be too familiar with. It not only gives you a lot more confidence when progressing but PPL hour building also lets you see new places that you probably would never have thought of seeing before. Why not use the money and time you're spending to experience as much as possible, even if it seems difficult and daunting at first?
To add to that, on each flight incorporate a forced landing and maybe some shortfield techniques. Make up a time before you depart for your first or second leg and write it down. At that time have the practice engine failure, it might not be a nice area with fields and somewhere straight forward to land - but it's the closest thing you'll get to a real one so it prepares you somewhat.
This might not be too relevant to you as my training has all been done in Australia but what I can say from experience here is get as much DR navigation practice as you can.
A lot of the time as a student you tend to have a comfort zone when it comes to flying...flying circuits, in the local training area etc. As you progress to CPL you'll have to be comfortable flying into airports you haven't been to before and in airspace you might not be too familiar with. It not only gives you a lot more confidence when progressing but PPL hour building also lets you see new places that you probably would never have thought of seeing before. Why not use the money and time you're spending to experience as much as possible, even if it seems difficult and daunting at first?
To add to that, on each flight incorporate a forced landing and maybe some shortfield techniques. Make up a time before you depart for your first or second leg and write it down. At that time have the practice engine failure, it might not be a nice area with fields and somewhere straight forward to land - but it's the closest thing you'll get to a real one so it prepares you somewhat.
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Ahh I remember this thread from a few months ago, very helpful indeed. I am due to begin my hours building in the Channel Islands in the next week or so (Having my proficiency check tomorrow) and was wondering if anyone had any pointers to add regarding operating out of the Channel Islands and into the French zones, I have heard rumours about aircraft communicating amongst each other and to air traffic in French, is this true?
Any help would be much appreciated!
Any help would be much appreciated!
