Is IR training easier in Diamond twin star than a Duches or Seneca?

[Simon150]

Well said!

[coodem]

I am just starting my IR, and had no idea which aircraft to choose PA44 or DA42. Then found a school, that do a mixture of both. I do my MEP on the PA44, another 8 hours PA44 for the IR and then do 15 hours in the DA42. That way I am able to fly both without any difficulties. I did not find the overall cost much more expensive

[richatom]

This is something I had been thinking about recently. I shall be taking my IR in the da-42 in due course. With all the smashing avionics on board, I was worried certain functions of the G1000 would be off-limits for the skills test. If this is not the case and the only part of the aircraft out of use are the windows, is the IR really worth the weight it carries?

Most IR examiners here in France start degrading functionality during the flight. So for example, you might be able to use the autopilot until top of cruise phase, then once examiner sees you know how to use it, it is disabled. Then usually they pull the GPS circuit breaker, so you lose your ground-track, wind vector and FMS flight plan. You end up with an aircraft with no more functionality than a conventional steam-guage aeroplane, except that the knobology is more complicated. For example, changing ADF frequency and identifying the NDB in the G1000 requires a lot more knobbing than on a conventional ADF.

However, once you know the knobology of the G1000 and are in a real situation where you are using all its functionality, it absolutely awesome and a great safety asset in IFR. For example, it is very reassuring when on an approach in IMC, especially on single pilot ops, to be able to glance over to the moving map to verify that you are where your instruments say you are.

[Finals19]

Then usually they pull the GPS circuit breaker, so you lose your ground-track, wind vector and FMS flight plan.

All of which are also available on the GNS430, which I found in the Duchess that I did my IRT on. The level of failure can (to a large degree) be simulated on both aircraft when it comes to some of the avionics, although the G1000 allows some integrated functions to remain intact. Therefore, its the EFIS style display and the FADEC that give the DA42 the cutting edge.

FWIW, GPS can be used en route in the IRT, although this seems to be a bone of contention with some examiners and not with others. There is still some standardisation required on this issue IMHO.

[bajadj]

I'll take that bet. I have absolutely no stats whatsover but i'm willing to bet that the twinstar has higher pass rates than the seneca... how much shall we say?? one dollar randolf???

[moggiee]

Our first time IR pass rate has doubled since moving from the Seneca. That saves our students a LOT of money.

[matt_hooks]

As for what you can/can't use "on test", you are expected to show proficiency on any and all kit fitted to the aircraft, so in fact in that way the DA42 with the G1000 could be a hindrance with the massive capability, if the examiner decides to test out your knowledge of the systems.

They will, in certain parts of the test, ask you not to use certain of the gadgets. For example they will ask you to make the initial climb out and probably one or two turns nahd flying, before they allow you to engage the AP. And you are expected to disengage the AP by bottom of descent on the first approach. Also they will either cover the moving map, or ask you to select a different page on the MFD for the NDB approach.

Is the DA42 easier to pass the IR test in? That very much depends. If you are willing to spend the time and effort to learn the system properly then you will find it aids you hugely. If you are somewhat slipshod then it can turn round and bite you.

[Simon150]

No - its rather categoric. No numbers I am afraid but have been told by 2 schools now that the pass rate has 'gone up significantly' since switching from steam to the DA-42.

Raw stats says that flying the DA-42 will improve your chances of passing first time - i.e. its easier on the DA-42.

"As for what you can/can't use "on test", you are expected to show proficiency on any and all kit fitted to the aircraft, so in fact in that way the DA42 with the G1000 could be a hindrance with the massive capability, if the examiner decides to test out your knowledge of the systems."

......so much so that I am considering stealing the GPS circuit breaker the night before my test.

[madlandrover]

Much as Moggiee says - do the IR on the Twinstar to save cost (lower operating costs as well as a higher first time pass rate), then spend some time post-test flying a traditional 6 lever steam cockpit aircraft until you and an instructor are satisfied. Just the same as you'd have to do from Seneca/Seminole to Twinstar. Having done a few hours single pilot in IMC in the DA42 last week, I certainly know which I'd rather be flying!

[D O Guerrero]

I fly the Seneca and I reckon just from an engine management point of view, the DA42 must be so much easier to fly. I nearly break my neck every time I strain to look at the EGT gauges to lean the engines for the cruise. While trying to maintain my scan... talk on the radio.... find peak EGT.... etc etc! I guess it all comes with practice, but I know which aircraft sounds more appealing right now!
Seneca EFATO drill (for the guy that asked) - Mixture, Prop and Throttles fully forward (well, throttles to 40"), close failed throttle, feather failed prop, failed mixture to ICO. Gear up, flaps up. Failed Mags, fuel pump and fuel selector off. Check for fire. Check Engine T&P, Set cowl flaps (dead engine closed, live open), check gyro pressure. Make Pan call. Set rudder trim.... phew!
I reckon that has to be more long-winded than the DA42? Anyone care to let me know?!

[GASH !]

The engine failure drill for the DA42 is:

Full power, Vyse, Gear/Flap up, Engine master off, alternator off, fuel off, check for fire etc etc Very basic, very easy.

I teach on the DA42 and the PA44. It is much easier to get students through on the DA42. Infact, I can't remember the last time I had a student that DIDN'T get through the IR in minimum hours on the DA42. I'd say it's almost possible to take anybody with a licence, medical and a basic grasp of English to IR test standard in minimum hours on the DA42. The same cannot be said for a 6 lever twin. Certainly converting a 6 lever driver onto a glass cockpit is far easier than trying to convert a 42 driver onto 6 levers.

What I'd really like to see is a bit more imagination coming from the Belgrano with regards to test routes. The examiners choose the same 'milk runs' week in week out, it's no wonder the pass rates are so high.

[D O Guerrero]

Thanks Gash. I forgot the control & identify part but thought that went without saying....!

[moggiee]

Originally Posted by D O Guerrero

Thanks Gash. I forgot the control & identify part but thought that went without saying....!

It should go without saying!