Honest answers appreciated!
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Honest answers appreciated!
Hi, I am new to the forum and am after some honest pertinant advice. I am currently planning for the future. I am currently serving in the British Army as a Bomb Disposal Officer and have always had the desire to fly, unfortunately too tall for Army aviation, gazelle was built for the vertically challenged! I am due out of the services at the age of 38 with a full pension (thanks your majesty!) and enough money to self fund an ATPL course. Do people think that 39 after training will be too old to secure a UK based position?? I have been doing plenty of research. Would I be too old to apply for any of the few scholarships floating around?? Any advice would be greatly apprecitated. Many thanks in advance.
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Go for it....
B.D,
As you well know there are only two certainties in life...etc etc
My advice is simple, if you really want this then don't let anything hold you back. Get your Class 1 Medical first, strongly consider an assessment through GAPAN or one of the Integrated FTO's (do plenty of research first.) You will also have to strongly consider your family situation. You are moving from a securish (actually bomb disposal probably doesn't list under this section) job to what is a minefield (sorry) of whether you'll get a job after 50/60/70k worth of investment. If you do find an FTO that suits do your best to hit the books early..... Sadly the only person who can answer your question is you. Is 38 too old to start, in my opinion absolutely not.
You will get plenty of knock's 1) Aren't you too old 2) Top Gun jokes etc....
Give it everything, try your hardest and go for it....
TM
As you well know there are only two certainties in life...etc etc
My advice is simple, if you really want this then don't let anything hold you back. Get your Class 1 Medical first, strongly consider an assessment through GAPAN or one of the Integrated FTO's (do plenty of research first.) You will also have to strongly consider your family situation. You are moving from a securish (actually bomb disposal probably doesn't list under this section) job to what is a minefield (sorry) of whether you'll get a job after 50/60/70k worth of investment. If you do find an FTO that suits do your best to hit the books early..... Sadly the only person who can answer your question is you. Is 38 too old to start, in my opinion absolutely not.
You will get plenty of knock's 1) Aren't you too old 2) Top Gun jokes etc....
Give it everything, try your hardest and go for it....
TM
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Trevor, Many thanks for your reply. I was fortunate enough to be on the receiving end of a RAF Flying Scholarship at 16 and an Air League Scholarship at 17 so have some hours under my belt, however will be starting from scratch effectively. I really want this and thankfully my better half is behind me all the way. Obviously, with the large investment I want to make sure that i will be employable!! Would help as the mil pension although better than most is not a sustainable salary!
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I would agree with Trevor, if you really want to do it, don't hold back.
The only thing that starting at a late age brings is a certain level of pressure that you wouldn't normally have if you we're 18-25. It's important throughout this that you enjoy it (easier said then done!) but it should be fun, albeit with a standard to reach. Starting at 35+ it's important you start to make earnings and having fun flying light aircraft isn't really an option...it's a shame, but that's the reality...
Be very aware of your place in the market with <200 hours total time and a CPL/IR. Also at 39 you may have to reduce your horizons somewhat, up against CTC cadets at easyJet/Thomas Cook/TUI Travel with the same experience could be a VERY long shot, you may have to settle for a turbo-prop as your flying career, big, shiny jets could be out of reach. I may be wrong on this but I suspect CTC Cadets will fill these places for inexperienced FO's - not because they are better than you, but because they are very cheap! Almost everything in aviation comes down to pounds, shillings and pence!
FlyBe/Eastern Airways/Aurigny/Air Southwest are great companies with more fun flying to be gained than sat in the cruise for 4 hours+. Probably a more satisfying career but with limited earnings compared to the companies listed above. And on a plus side, I think your age will be a plus point for these companies because the lure of a jet won't take you away and you'll probably be in the left hand seat with 3 years with alot of life experience behind you.
The only thing that starting at a late age brings is a certain level of pressure that you wouldn't normally have if you we're 18-25. It's important throughout this that you enjoy it (easier said then done!) but it should be fun, albeit with a standard to reach. Starting at 35+ it's important you start to make earnings and having fun flying light aircraft isn't really an option...it's a shame, but that's the reality...
Be very aware of your place in the market with <200 hours total time and a CPL/IR. Also at 39 you may have to reduce your horizons somewhat, up against CTC cadets at easyJet/Thomas Cook/TUI Travel with the same experience could be a VERY long shot, you may have to settle for a turbo-prop as your flying career, big, shiny jets could be out of reach. I may be wrong on this but I suspect CTC Cadets will fill these places for inexperienced FO's - not because they are better than you, but because they are very cheap! Almost everything in aviation comes down to pounds, shillings and pence!
FlyBe/Eastern Airways/Aurigny/Air Southwest are great companies with more fun flying to be gained than sat in the cruise for 4 hours+. Probably a more satisfying career but with limited earnings compared to the companies listed above. And on a plus side, I think your age will be a plus point for these companies because the lure of a jet won't take you away and you'll probably be in the left hand seat with 3 years with alot of life experience behind you.
- Class 1 Medical
- Get your PPL
- I would consider Modular route...
- Try and have fun!
- Have a realistic career plan...pick an airline and research it well
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BombDr . I am just starting at 38 and have a mega + attitude that it will all come good . There is a thread running in the sticky at the top entitled "The perpetual am I too old" You will find all sorts of opinions there , some good some bad and some downright ill informed garbage .
One point you may want to consider is your medical. Now seek clarification on this , but you may be able to get one done through either an Army AME or seeing as your in Banbury nip over to Brize and get a RAF guy to do it . Im not sure if the CAA would accept it but certainly worth asking . I did my class 2 with an RAF quack and it was free .
Also if you have time left in the forces enquire at BZN flying school . It was at one time cheapest flying school in the UK . They accept civvy members but if you join whilst still in the army you will get forces rates . But it has been some year since I trained there . Worth enquiring though.
Good Luck
One point you may want to consider is your medical. Now seek clarification on this , but you may be able to get one done through either an Army AME or seeing as your in Banbury nip over to Brize and get a RAF guy to do it . Im not sure if the CAA would accept it but certainly worth asking . I did my class 2 with an RAF quack and it was free .
Also if you have time left in the forces enquire at BZN flying school . It was at one time cheapest flying school in the UK . They accept civvy members but if you join whilst still in the army you will get forces rates . But it has been some year since I trained there . Worth enquiring though.
Good Luck
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BombDr,
I did just that last year, left the RN after 16 years (albeit as a Seaking Observer so I had alot of flying experience)
Was offered 3 jobs within a month of leaving and am now in the airline I always wanted, they do appear to like ex forces personnel.
PM me an I will let you know the ins and outs of it all and where in my opinion to train I may also be able to give you some advice ref resettlement / ELCs etc.
Best thing I ever did
Fatobs now an EXfatobs
I did just that last year, left the RN after 16 years (albeit as a Seaking Observer so I had alot of flying experience)
Was offered 3 jobs within a month of leaving and am now in the airline I always wanted, they do appear to like ex forces personnel.
PM me an I will let you know the ins and outs of it all and where in my opinion to train I may also be able to give you some advice ref resettlement / ELCs etc.
Best thing I ever did
Fatobs now an EXfatobs
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Many thanks for all your advice and help. Positive attitude towards flying is never a problem for me and I would happily end up flying rubber dog turds out of barnsley!!!
With the scholarship schemes....do they have an upper age limit for applicants. The current ones around that I have looked at do not mention for obvious legal reasons age however in reality are they looking for fresh out of school/uni applicants? eg. netjets/flybe etc.
With the scholarship schemes....do they have an upper age limit for applicants. The current ones around that I have looked at do not mention for obvious legal reasons age however in reality are they looking for fresh out of school/uni applicants? eg. netjets/flybe etc.
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BD - anyone wanting a job in the LHS needs to sell themselves. The 23 y/o with the fATPL hasn't has the chance/time to do anything apart from get the ticket.
Your military career may not have given you the technical skills, but just think of the all the related skills and experience you have gained. Just mentioning your current role will get people interested in you, and get you interviews. Don't hide!
Your military career may not have given you the technical skills, but just think of the all the related skills and experience you have gained. Just mentioning your current role will get people interested in you, and get you interviews. Don't hide!
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Life After The Military
Bombdoctor, go for it mate, I was in your situation not so long ago having completed 22 years in the RN as an aircraft technician, I used my gratuity to chase the dream much to my wifes dismay.
I am now nearing the end of my training and will soon be looking for jobs, absolutely kick the backside out of resettlement grants and ELC grants wherever you can during training. After spending a full career in the military sitting on top of something that is designed to go bang in the biggest fashion you have definitely earned whatever contribution you can get towards flying training.
As other people have mentioned just remain realistic you may well not end up in the left hand seat of a long haul 747 or A380 but theres no reason that you cannot have a full and enjoyable 2nd career. Your technical training within ordnance disposal may not be appropriate to flying an aircraft but you will have a shed load of transferrable skills that employers will recognise, just remember that despite this there are no guarantees and no-one owes any of us a living.
Sincere best wishes in whatever you decide to do in the future.
I am now nearing the end of my training and will soon be looking for jobs, absolutely kick the backside out of resettlement grants and ELC grants wherever you can during training. After spending a full career in the military sitting on top of something that is designed to go bang in the biggest fashion you have definitely earned whatever contribution you can get towards flying training.
As other people have mentioned just remain realistic you may well not end up in the left hand seat of a long haul 747 or A380 but theres no reason that you cannot have a full and enjoyable 2nd career. Your technical training within ordnance disposal may not be appropriate to flying an aircraft but you will have a shed load of transferrable skills that employers will recognise, just remember that despite this there are no guarantees and no-one owes any of us a living.
Sincere best wishes in whatever you decide to do in the future.
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You only live once. Go for it, otherwise in 10 years time it might be one of your biggest regrets.
A somewhat uneducated opinion from a whipper-snapper of a 22 year old, but it's what I would do if I had the money.
A somewhat uneducated opinion from a whipper-snapper of a 22 year old, but it's what I would do if I had the money.
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BD,
While your first post on this thread adequately explains why you chose such a moniker for PPRuNe, later on, it could give readers who have never read of your background a start. I would suggest that anything related to flying airliners and the first half of your moniker don't mix. Not to make you paranoid, but I wouldn't be surprised if your IP address eventually get sniffed out by a few heavy handed surveillance agencies that are rumoured to have IP packet sniffing software monitoring just about everything that goes across fiber optic networks in the US and UK. At least with your background, they should be able to figure out you're one of the good guys though!
On a more positive note, thanks for your service and sacrifice. I would say go for it, but don't expect the same opportunities as the younger guys, meaning you probably won't end up at one of the big airlines. Some of the smaller operators who lose their FO's to BA and the likes in large numbers will wisely realize that you don't have the years left to start over at the bottom of another company's seniority list and they might decide to give you a shot in the hopes you'll stick around for more than 1500 hours.
There are plenty of ex military people in the airlines and some are even in recruiting. So long as you have a good training record, I think the fraternal mindedness will get your CV read and considered where others of the 1970 vintage might not. I would strongly suggest giving modular a look though, as you've less years to recoup a large investment and should probably limit the outlay in case it doesn't go your way.
While your first post on this thread adequately explains why you chose such a moniker for PPRuNe, later on, it could give readers who have never read of your background a start. I would suggest that anything related to flying airliners and the first half of your moniker don't mix. Not to make you paranoid, but I wouldn't be surprised if your IP address eventually get sniffed out by a few heavy handed surveillance agencies that are rumoured to have IP packet sniffing software monitoring just about everything that goes across fiber optic networks in the US and UK. At least with your background, they should be able to figure out you're one of the good guys though!
On a more positive note, thanks for your service and sacrifice. I would say go for it, but don't expect the same opportunities as the younger guys, meaning you probably won't end up at one of the big airlines. Some of the smaller operators who lose their FO's to BA and the likes in large numbers will wisely realize that you don't have the years left to start over at the bottom of another company's seniority list and they might decide to give you a shot in the hopes you'll stick around for more than 1500 hours.
There are plenty of ex military people in the airlines and some are even in recruiting. So long as you have a good training record, I think the fraternal mindedness will get your CV read and considered where others of the 1970 vintage might not. I would strongly suggest giving modular a look though, as you've less years to recoup a large investment and should probably limit the outlay in case it doesn't go your way.
Being too old is a fear that is common and these days irrelevant.
Decades ago with highly static seniority run airlines it was an issue. Today, sadly, airline pilot is just a job. They recruit you and as long as you stay for 5 years then it was a successful recruitment.
WWW
Decades ago with highly static seniority run airlines it was an issue. Today, sadly, airline pilot is just a job. They recruit you and as long as you stay for 5 years then it was a successful recruitment.
WWW
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RAF Flying clubs
If you want to save a lot of money on the basic trainning (PPL, Night, IMC & hour building) then go to your nearest RAF flying club.
As a member of the armed forces you are most welcome, you will find a lot of contacts at these clubs who are in the airline business and can help you get a job at the end of the training.
PM me if you want more info.
As a member of the armed forces you are most welcome, you will find a lot of contacts at these clubs who are in the airline business and can help you get a job at the end of the training.
PM me if you want more info.
