Growing evidence that the downturn is upon us....
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WWW
You never miss the chance to point out the down side to a situation. This time it is the cost of IR renwals and ATPL exams expiring.
The minor problems with the economy at the moment are made much worse by people like you are talking us into trouble because you undermine confidence in the future, it is interesting to note that you have decided to use the house price fall for a little speculation and so would no doubt like to see a big crash in the house market for reasons of personal proffit.
When I say that "low service" airlines are likely to suffer the worst of this downturn you accuse me of "willy wagalling" and just stick your head in the sand, perhaps because you work for one of these "low service" airlines and just cant face the fact that you may be talking yourself out of a job.
The economy needs cash flow and with all this talk of economic gloom people are not buying hoses, cars and other things not because they don,t want or don,t have the money but because they are frightened by the hype in the press that is likely to become self forefilling.
Only time will tell if you are right about the economic situation but consider this, the housing market is dead at the moment because people won,t sell at the low prices the estate agents need to keep the market moving and with inflation increasing, the value of your house speculation pot is decreasing in real terms. All that is needed is a big lay off at your "low service" airline and your get rich quick plans will come crashing down around your ears.
You may think that this post is a bit harsh but you are trying to speculate from others misfortune in the house market and at the same time talking down the pilot market to a point that when things turn around you will be in the position to proffit from a pilot shortage that might result.
The minor problems with the economy at the moment are made much worse by people like you are talking us into trouble because you undermine confidence in the future, it is interesting to note that you have decided to use the house price fall for a little speculation and so would no doubt like to see a big crash in the house market for reasons of personal proffit.
When I say that "low service" airlines are likely to suffer the worst of this downturn you accuse me of "willy wagalling" and just stick your head in the sand, perhaps because you work for one of these "low service" airlines and just cant face the fact that you may be talking yourself out of a job.
The economy needs cash flow and with all this talk of economic gloom people are not buying hoses, cars and other things not because they don,t want or don,t have the money but because they are frightened by the hype in the press that is likely to become self forefilling.
Only time will tell if you are right about the economic situation but consider this, the housing market is dead at the moment because people won,t sell at the low prices the estate agents need to keep the market moving and with inflation increasing, the value of your house speculation pot is decreasing in real terms. All that is needed is a big lay off at your "low service" airline and your get rich quick plans will come crashing down around your ears.
You may think that this post is a bit harsh but you are trying to speculate from others misfortune in the house market and at the same time talking down the pilot market to a point that when things turn around you will be in the position to proffit from a pilot shortage that might result.
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A and C - you really seem to have it in for the LCCs. Did you have a bad experience with one of them? Or is flying with them simply below you?
Would now be a good time to point out that a "full service" airline has just announced a 10% reduction in capacity? Yes the "low service" airline Ryanair has also announced grounding a portion of it's fleet means that these problems are not for the "low service airlines". Qantas, also a "full service" airline is reducing capacity, as is AA and NZ have reduced capacity to the UK by 7%.
If these airlines are so doomed, then the UK is in trouble, as we only have 1 (and a half "full service" airlines [the half is BD - depending on which route you fly]) based here.
And beleive me - when people do tighten the purse strings, a "free" drink and a soggy sandwhich will not tempt people on your planes. Instead, low fares and a safe, reliable (believe me, I see one of the "full service" airlines which serve NCL as far from reliable) service are what people will go for.
Would now be a good time to point out that a "full service" airline has just announced a 10% reduction in capacity? Yes the "low service" airline Ryanair has also announced grounding a portion of it's fleet means that these problems are not for the "low service airlines". Qantas, also a "full service" airline is reducing capacity, as is AA and NZ have reduced capacity to the UK by 7%.
If these airlines are so doomed, then the UK is in trouble, as we only have 1 (and a half "full service" airlines [the half is BD - depending on which route you fly]) based here.
And beleive me - when people do tighten the purse strings, a "free" drink and a soggy sandwhich will not tempt people on your planes. Instead, low fares and a safe, reliable (believe me, I see one of the "full service" airlines which serve NCL as far from reliable) service are what people will go for.
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I'm with WWW on this and agree that presently we are in a very dire situation indeed and the future seems to just as bleak.
If you really feel that you must start your training then take it easy and "spend it as you earn" after all you have time in hand. If you can return to that well paid career of yours then do so and fly on the weekends, at least financially there will be some degree of security. Flight training at best is a roulette wheel gamble but in the present climate I'd say the odds are very much against you, come on smell the coffee and snap out of it
. If you're young then perhaps you can wait and do something else in the meantime, we all know the economic bad weather CBs won't last forever. Considering that someone previously stated that it'll be 2 years before the green shoots of recovery appear then you only need to wait 9 or so months before starting the training so you graduate during the upturn. That really isn't too long is it and besides gives you extra time to get a bit more financial padding underneath you. Give your brain a chance and curtail the passion for once. Poverty is no fun post training especially when you've playe all your ace cards and still have nothing to show for it. It's easy to make rash decisions on a full stomach but that's just arrogance. Be careful it's alot of money, it's your future and that of your FAMILIES too. Be wise and cautious, sometimes dull and boring in life will help win the race in the end.... it's upto you my friends
I'm sure there are jobs out there, there always will be but at what price? If you do get lucky and gain employment your low wages and increased training (self funded Type Rating) will mean hardship for a few extra years. Whereas well timed training into a 'good' market will supply you a better level of salary against a smaller initial training cost, this will reduce the hardship simply because of timing and you'll get a lot more out of it. Factor into this the money you were earning whilst for your training to start means you're onto a winner.
Another point.... People are relating this housing price crash with that one, this one, back then, from that country, etc .... But remember to factor in the change of political inclination since it last occured. We have a socialist government in this country (UK) that are even themselves beginning to wipe the sleep out of their eyes after awakening from their "money no object party from the night before". They have begun to worry about the true extent of just how bare the government cupboards are and even that of the population, i.e. where's the money going to come from to oil the economy? Last time around the government was able to plan the solution and just had to wait for it to get going again, this time things are different. Another knock or two would put us in a very serious situation indeed. Society is held and bound together so when something is depressed at one point the entire area becomes depressed by that action. With a government now desperate for whatever meat is left on the bone they'll soon start tapping into aviation as one of the few bread winners of the economy and burden airlines more and more. Then the prospect of the wannabe will be far from an airline manager's perspective. WWW has warned you clearly and backed up his claims to reinforce that point. Bad news is part of life and it can only be dressed up in so many ways before people just stop warning altogether. Considering the negative status of our economy and it's outlook, if the present circumstances aren't a sign asking you not to train - or simply go/slow then what kind of signals are you looking for...? Loch Ness monster emerging from the water and begin it's long journey to Maul the inhabitants of London?
If you're young enough go to the armed services and get them to pay for your training, they even give you a job afterwards! As prospect professionals you really need to be seen to make rational and common sense decisions. It's not something that goes onto your CV but evident in your character at interview.
I hear that the economic downturn in New York is so bad that even the Mafia's had to lay off 3 Supreme Court Judges
Hang in their folks..... we have little other choice.
If you really feel that you must start your training then take it easy and "spend it as you earn" after all you have time in hand. If you can return to that well paid career of yours then do so and fly on the weekends, at least financially there will be some degree of security. Flight training at best is a roulette wheel gamble but in the present climate I'd say the odds are very much against you, come on smell the coffee and snap out of it
. If you're young then perhaps you can wait and do something else in the meantime, we all know the economic bad weather CBs won't last forever. Considering that someone previously stated that it'll be 2 years before the green shoots of recovery appear then you only need to wait 9 or so months before starting the training so you graduate during the upturn. That really isn't too long is it and besides gives you extra time to get a bit more financial padding underneath you. Give your brain a chance and curtail the passion for once. Poverty is no fun post training especially when you've playe all your ace cards and still have nothing to show for it. It's easy to make rash decisions on a full stomach but that's just arrogance. Be careful it's alot of money, it's your future and that of your FAMILIES too. Be wise and cautious, sometimes dull and boring in life will help win the race in the end.... it's upto you my friendsI'm sure there are jobs out there, there always will be but at what price? If you do get lucky and gain employment your low wages and increased training (self funded Type Rating) will mean hardship for a few extra years. Whereas well timed training into a 'good' market will supply you a better level of salary against a smaller initial training cost, this will reduce the hardship simply because of timing and you'll get a lot more out of it. Factor into this the money you were earning whilst for your training to start means you're onto a winner.
Another point.... People are relating this housing price crash with that one, this one, back then, from that country, etc .... But remember to factor in the change of political inclination since it last occured. We have a socialist government in this country (UK) that are even themselves beginning to wipe the sleep out of their eyes after awakening from their "money no object party from the night before". They have begun to worry about the true extent of just how bare the government cupboards are and even that of the population, i.e. where's the money going to come from to oil the economy? Last time around the government was able to plan the solution and just had to wait for it to get going again, this time things are different. Another knock or two would put us in a very serious situation indeed. Society is held and bound together so when something is depressed at one point the entire area becomes depressed by that action. With a government now desperate for whatever meat is left on the bone they'll soon start tapping into aviation as one of the few bread winners of the economy and burden airlines more and more. Then the prospect of the wannabe will be far from an airline manager's perspective. WWW has warned you clearly and backed up his claims to reinforce that point. Bad news is part of life and it can only be dressed up in so many ways before people just stop warning altogether. Considering the negative status of our economy and it's outlook, if the present circumstances aren't a sign asking you not to train - or simply go/slow then what kind of signals are you looking for...? Loch Ness monster emerging from the water and begin it's long journey to Maul the inhabitants of London?
If you're young enough go to the armed services and get them to pay for your training, they even give you a job afterwards! As prospect professionals you really need to be seen to make rational and common sense decisions. It's not something that goes onto your CV but evident in your character at interview.
I hear that the economic downturn in New York is so bad that even the Mafia's had to lay off 3 Supreme Court Judges
Hang in their folks..... we have little other choice.
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If you really feel that you must start your training then take it easy and "spend it as you earn" after all you have time in hand. If you can return to that well paid career of yours then do so and fly on the weekends, at least financially there will be some degree of security.
heli_port is on his way, watch out
heli_port, not sure if you're going rotary or fixed wing, but please do come back and tell us what happens in 12 months time. Just from an interest point of view to see how wrong we all were.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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Does anyone know what is happening to Boeing's and Airbus's full order book? Don't you guys think airlines would've dropped orders by now if they know the economy is going way down?
Eikido
Eikido
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And on cue, the order cancellations are starting...just as they did in 1991/1992:
Oil price forces Qantas to cut routes
By Peter Smith in Sydney
Published: May 28 2008 12:34 | Last updated: May 28 2008 16:01
Qantas on Wednesday warned that escalating oil prices would increase its fuel bill by more than A$2bn in its next financial year, forcing the airline to abandon some routes and cut jobs in an effort to rein in costs.
The Australian carrier, one of the world’s most profitable airlines, joins a growing list of companies around the world that are struggling under the weight of higher oil prices. Jet fuel prices have more than doubled in the last year and were on Wednesday trading at around $1,345 per tonne.
Air New Zealand warned on Wednesday of a drop of at least 25 per cent in full-year earnings thanks to higher fuel charges. Shares in the 80-per cent government owned carrier fell heavily and are down by close to two-thirds in a year.
Geoff Dixon, Qantas chief executive, said fuel now represented close to 35 per cent of the airline’s total expenditure. “The fact is that fuel prices are something we have no control over, so we have to look harder at areas where we do have control.”
“Despite our fuel hedging strategy, fuel surcharges, two separate across-the-board fare increases and a recruitment freeze, we are not bridging the widening gap between the actual increase in the cost of fuel and the amount we offset,” he said.
Qantas said cost saving measures would include the cancellation of 5 per cent of available seat kilometres – the equivalent of grounding six aircraft – which would hit international and domestic services.
Qantas said it would ground at least three aircraft, accelerate the retirement of four others and cancel the delivery of an aircraft for Jetstar, the airline’s budget brand.
Mr Dixon said Qantas remained a strong company with a good balance sheet and that it was committed to A$35bn of aircraft orders, one of the largest programmes in the world.
“We must make these hard decisions now, however, if we are to ensure the ongoing strength of Qantas, preserve the jobs of the vast majority of our current workforce, and position ourselves for growth when the trading environment improves.”
Qantas said it would reduce staff numbers and had launched an “accelerated leave” programme to mitigate the requirement for redundancies.
“In the first instance, redundancies will be carried out on a voluntary basis.” Mr Dixon said, adding pay for the company’s senior executive group would be frozen.
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008
Oil price forces Qantas to cut routes
By Peter Smith in Sydney
Published: May 28 2008 12:34 | Last updated: May 28 2008 16:01
Qantas on Wednesday warned that escalating oil prices would increase its fuel bill by more than A$2bn in its next financial year, forcing the airline to abandon some routes and cut jobs in an effort to rein in costs.
The Australian carrier, one of the world’s most profitable airlines, joins a growing list of companies around the world that are struggling under the weight of higher oil prices. Jet fuel prices have more than doubled in the last year and were on Wednesday trading at around $1,345 per tonne.
Air New Zealand warned on Wednesday of a drop of at least 25 per cent in full-year earnings thanks to higher fuel charges. Shares in the 80-per cent government owned carrier fell heavily and are down by close to two-thirds in a year.
Geoff Dixon, Qantas chief executive, said fuel now represented close to 35 per cent of the airline’s total expenditure. “The fact is that fuel prices are something we have no control over, so we have to look harder at areas where we do have control.”
“Despite our fuel hedging strategy, fuel surcharges, two separate across-the-board fare increases and a recruitment freeze, we are not bridging the widening gap between the actual increase in the cost of fuel and the amount we offset,” he said.
Qantas said cost saving measures would include the cancellation of 5 per cent of available seat kilometres – the equivalent of grounding six aircraft – which would hit international and domestic services.
Qantas said it would ground at least three aircraft, accelerate the retirement of four others and cancel the delivery of an aircraft for Jetstar, the airline’s budget brand.
Mr Dixon said Qantas remained a strong company with a good balance sheet and that it was committed to A$35bn of aircraft orders, one of the largest programmes in the world.
“We must make these hard decisions now, however, if we are to ensure the ongoing strength of Qantas, preserve the jobs of the vast majority of our current workforce, and position ourselves for growth when the trading environment improves.”
Qantas said it would reduce staff numbers and had launched an “accelerated leave” programme to mitigate the requirement for redundancies.
“In the first instance, redundancies will be carried out on a voluntary basis.” Mr Dixon said, adding pay for the company’s senior executive group would be frozen.
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008
Shockingly powerful evidence today in the form of the Nationwide house price survey. Worst falls since they started recording data 17 years ago.
House prices down 7.4% since Sept (9 months) which exceeds the worst 12 month falls of 6.3% in the 1992 house price crash.. The June figures are likely to be as bad or worse as the seasonal adjustment for June is a lot more negative than in May. Even a flat price sales figure will be over 1% down due to seasonal adjustment alone next month.
This is a now a full speed house price crash of at least the size of the 1992 crash and probably worse.
What Wannabes need to know is that a house price crash ALWAYS results in a recession. A recession ALWAYS results in airlines going bust. Airlines going bust ALWAYS means a total drought of jobs for Wannabes. Its easy to understand the linkages.
The difficult thing for Wannabes to do is to ignore the backward looking data and to consider the position in the near future - when they will be job hunting. The current order books for aircraft reflect the state of the business 2 years ago. Current recruiting is as a result of routes opened or expanded following meetings in the Spring of 2007. Holidays and trips taken for leisure were committed to many months ago or last year. Airlines profits are being reported from operations made mostly in 2007. Many of them have hedged fuel positions well below current oil prices but those hedges expire soon.
All that backward looking data can give an impression that there really isn't a big problem.
Unfortunately the forward looking data is all dire, it is diverse and it is intractable. You just can't fix a credit crisis, a house price crash, a recession and a global shift in resource demand plus a baby boom retirement bulge and a totally bare fiscal cupboard WITHOUT a massive amount of unemployment OR hyperinflation OR large scale war.
Train slowly and cheaply and keep working so as to keep your debt low. If you can dispose of any assets you may have to that personal insolvency can provide a safety-net as painlessly as possible. Don't pay anything up front to a training school and make sure all your family and loved ones know that finding a job might take years of commitment and require moving many times and over great distances.
And most of all - don't believe the unbelievable spin still being pumped out by increasingly nervous schools about pilot shortages!
WWW
ps
A&C Wrote:
Only time will tell if you are right about the economic situation but consider this, the housing market is dead at the moment because people won,t sell at the low prices the estate agents need to keep the market moving and with inflation increasing, the value of your house speculation pot is decreasing in real terms.
Given my equity in the bank is going up by 4.1% net and the next house I buy is going down by that every two months I'm fairly comfortable with the real return on my STR strategy. Thanks.
House prices down 7.4% since Sept (9 months) which exceeds the worst 12 month falls of 6.3% in the 1992 house price crash.. The June figures are likely to be as bad or worse as the seasonal adjustment for June is a lot more negative than in May. Even a flat price sales figure will be over 1% down due to seasonal adjustment alone next month.
This is a now a full speed house price crash of at least the size of the 1992 crash and probably worse.
What Wannabes need to know is that a house price crash ALWAYS results in a recession. A recession ALWAYS results in airlines going bust. Airlines going bust ALWAYS means a total drought of jobs for Wannabes. Its easy to understand the linkages.
The difficult thing for Wannabes to do is to ignore the backward looking data and to consider the position in the near future - when they will be job hunting. The current order books for aircraft reflect the state of the business 2 years ago. Current recruiting is as a result of routes opened or expanded following meetings in the Spring of 2007. Holidays and trips taken for leisure were committed to many months ago or last year. Airlines profits are being reported from operations made mostly in 2007. Many of them have hedged fuel positions well below current oil prices but those hedges expire soon.
All that backward looking data can give an impression that there really isn't a big problem.
Unfortunately the forward looking data is all dire, it is diverse and it is intractable. You just can't fix a credit crisis, a house price crash, a recession and a global shift in resource demand plus a baby boom retirement bulge and a totally bare fiscal cupboard WITHOUT a massive amount of unemployment OR hyperinflation OR large scale war.
Train slowly and cheaply and keep working so as to keep your debt low. If you can dispose of any assets you may have to that personal insolvency can provide a safety-net as painlessly as possible. Don't pay anything up front to a training school and make sure all your family and loved ones know that finding a job might take years of commitment and require moving many times and over great distances.
And most of all - don't believe the unbelievable spin still being pumped out by increasingly nervous schools about pilot shortages!
WWW
ps
A&C Wrote:
Only time will tell if you are right about the economic situation but consider this, the housing market is dead at the moment because people won,t sell at the low prices the estate agents need to keep the market moving and with inflation increasing, the value of your house speculation pot is decreasing in real terms.
Given my equity in the bank is going up by 4.1% net and the next house I buy is going down by that every two months I'm fairly comfortable with the real return on my STR strategy. Thanks.
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WWW,
Mass unemployment & hyperinflation i can get my head around, 99.9% of what you've posted to now i can agree with.
What's the 'big war' bit? Is it the build up of the military that produces 'growth', or does it destroy inflation/debt etc... or maybe stealing all the oil
Ta.
Mass unemployment & hyperinflation i can get my head around, 99.9% of what you've posted to now i can agree with.
What's the 'big war' bit? Is it the build up of the military that produces 'growth', or does it destroy inflation/debt etc... or maybe stealing all the oil
Ta.
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This is surely a big issue to wannabes, but more greater to them who are just finished, or about to finish their training.
Should start to think when this downturn comes to an end, to find a good time to do the training.
In Finland not really big signs of recession, just a little bit house prices down. Anyways our analysist say Finland will do fine, not certainly like beginning of 90's!
Should start to think when this downturn comes to an end, to find a good time to do the training.
In Finland not really big signs of recession, just a little bit house prices down. Anyways our analysist say Finland will do fine, not certainly like beginning of 90's!
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BA fuel surcharges rise further
British Airways has said it will increase its fuel surcharges on all tickets issued from Tuesday, 3 June as it looks to offset rising oil prices.
The surcharge for short-haul flights will rise by £3 per flight to £16 per flight, or £32 for a return ticket.
Long-haul flights of less than nine hours will increase by £15 per flight to £78 per flight.
The surcharge for long-haul flights of more than nine hours will rise by £30 per flight to £109 per flight.
BA added that it would also increase its fuel surcharges by similar levels in markets outside the UK.
Earlier this month, BA reported a 45% rise in profits to £883m for the year to 31 March.
However, at the same time, the airline warned that the current financial year would be tough because of the soaring cost of jet fuel.
It said at the time that if oil remained at its then market price of $120 a barrel, BA's total fuel costs would rise by about £1bn in the current financial year.
The price of oil hit a record high of more than $135 a barrel last week and is currently trading around the $130-a-barrel mark.
Revenue measures
Separately, Spanish airline Iberia said that it was dropping its bid for fellow airline Spanair.
The move came soon after Iberia's chairman said it was rethinking its stance on the offer because of difficulties facing the sector.
And the International Air Transport Association (IATA) warned that the airline industry faced a "grim" outlook, saying that passenger numbers would be dented by soaring fuel costs and economic turmoil.
The number of airline passengers grew by 3% in April from 5.4% in the same month the previous year, it said.
And for the first four months of 2007 the year, growth was 5.6%, as against 6.7% the previous year.
Besides fuel surcharges, airlines have begun taking measures to try and boost revenue.
Last week, American Airlines said it would become the first major US carrier to charge passengers to check in a first bag.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7425631.stm
The surcharge for short-haul flights will rise by £3 per flight to £16 per flight, or £32 for a return ticket.
Long-haul flights of less than nine hours will increase by £15 per flight to £78 per flight.
The surcharge for long-haul flights of more than nine hours will rise by £30 per flight to £109 per flight.
BA added that it would also increase its fuel surcharges by similar levels in markets outside the UK.
Earlier this month, BA reported a 45% rise in profits to £883m for the year to 31 March.
However, at the same time, the airline warned that the current financial year would be tough because of the soaring cost of jet fuel.
It said at the time that if oil remained at its then market price of $120 a barrel, BA's total fuel costs would rise by about £1bn in the current financial year.
The price of oil hit a record high of more than $135 a barrel last week and is currently trading around the $130-a-barrel mark.
Revenue measures
Separately, Spanish airline Iberia said that it was dropping its bid for fellow airline Spanair.
The move came soon after Iberia's chairman said it was rethinking its stance on the offer because of difficulties facing the sector.
And the International Air Transport Association (IATA) warned that the airline industry faced a "grim" outlook, saying that passenger numbers would be dented by soaring fuel costs and economic turmoil.
The number of airline passengers grew by 3% in April from 5.4% in the same month the previous year, it said.
And for the first four months of 2007 the year, growth was 5.6%, as against 6.7% the previous year.
Besides fuel surcharges, airlines have begun taking measures to try and boost revenue.
Last week, American Airlines said it would become the first major US carrier to charge passengers to check in a first bag.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7425631.stm
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Wannabes would bode well to read the Terms and Endearment forum in addition to these, in particular the thread running about the latest EZ scheme. It will give you a good feel for what our beloved managers have in store for us.
Rumour also that FR is asking for F/O's to volunteer to take unpaid leave. So after you have paid them to train you might then not be able to build your hours to move on and you will still have the debt to service. Having said that they intend to continue recruiting of course as its a profitable venture, at the trainees expense of course.
Rumour also that FR is asking for F/O's to volunteer to take unpaid leave. So after you have paid them to train you might then not be able to build your hours to move on and you will still have the debt to service. Having said that they intend to continue recruiting of course as its a profitable venture, at the trainees expense of course.
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MarcoFF - Finland is not a closed community so if an airline goes bust elsewhere in Europe, those experienced pilots may well choose to move to Finland to take the jobs there which will leave low-hours pilots a little less desirable.
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Downturn
Good reading from WWW and others
Qantas did advise slowing down operations, but also indicated they would look to more fuel efficient acft for future needs (of which some are already on order) and are stopping old gas drinking machines
Old acft with high fuel burns, will kill airlines if the oil price increases. They are signs two airlines in the UK may fall over before the summer season is out
For people with money in the bank, I would say go for it, but those who need to lend serious amounts of cash be aware - The RBS sent a letter out to Shareholders asking for cash and HSBC etc are behind them
Pax loads so far have been good, with people cutting back on everything else but their summer holiday
True airlines will suffer, but they have been mergers i.e TCX & MYT, TUI & FCA and this will become the trend I have no doubt
I have been involved in aviation now for some years and there is always worry and stress but thats aviation
KP
Qantas did advise slowing down operations, but also indicated they would look to more fuel efficient acft for future needs (of which some are already on order) and are stopping old gas drinking machines
Old acft with high fuel burns, will kill airlines if the oil price increases. They are signs two airlines in the UK may fall over before the summer season is out
For people with money in the bank, I would say go for it, but those who need to lend serious amounts of cash be aware - The RBS sent a letter out to Shareholders asking for cash and HSBC etc are behind them
Pax loads so far have been good, with people cutting back on everything else but their summer holiday
True airlines will suffer, but they have been mergers i.e TCX & MYT, TUI & FCA and this will become the trend I have no doubt
I have been involved in aviation now for some years and there is always worry and stress but thats aviation
KP
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The RBS sent a letter out to Shareholders asking for cash and HSBC etc are behind them
They are signs two airlines in the UK may fall over before the summer season is out
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Low cost = low service!
Geordiejet
I don't have a problem with the low cost sector at all but what I do have is a problem with the way that the market sees them, the way that they keep the prices low is by offering a very low level of service.
When all is going well this is not a problem but if they cancel a flight you can expect no help whatsoever from the airline.
The fact of the matter is that just at the time when you need help the airline will offer you nothing. If you buy wisely you can usualy get a deal with one of the full service airlines at a price that is very near the "low cost" price and get to an airport that is not 60KM from the city that you wish to visit.
As I say at the top of the page Low cost = low service and the public needs to have that in mind when they buy a ticket.
WWW
The big problem with the UK house market according to an estate agent that I know is that he can't get anything to market, people are not willing to sell there house for the price that the market thinks the house is worth. This has had the result that there is a very low volume of sales and the houses that are selling are of very low quality or "forced sales". fortunatly for my contact he is a reputable agent that offers a wide range of property services but says that if he was relient on just sales he would be shutting the shop right now.
The question that only time will answer is how will the real market and your "cut and paste" view of things stack up over time?
I don't have a problem with the low cost sector at all but what I do have is a problem with the way that the market sees them, the way that they keep the prices low is by offering a very low level of service.
When all is going well this is not a problem but if they cancel a flight you can expect no help whatsoever from the airline.
The fact of the matter is that just at the time when you need help the airline will offer you nothing. If you buy wisely you can usualy get a deal with one of the full service airlines at a price that is very near the "low cost" price and get to an airport that is not 60KM from the city that you wish to visit.
As I say at the top of the page Low cost = low service and the public needs to have that in mind when they buy a ticket.
WWW
The big problem with the UK house market according to an estate agent that I know is that he can't get anything to market, people are not willing to sell there house for the price that the market thinks the house is worth. This has had the result that there is a very low volume of sales and the houses that are selling are of very low quality or "forced sales". fortunatly for my contact he is a reputable agent that offers a wide range of property services but says that if he was relient on just sales he would be shutting the shop right now.
The question that only time will answer is how will the real market and your "cut and paste" view of things stack up over time?
When house prices were rising year on year, out of all proportion to wages; when property owners were taking out loans secured on the equity 'created' by those absurd rises on a regular basis to buy cars/holidays/conservatories they couldn't otherwise afford; when people were buying second homes with their 'spare' equity; where was the media and people like WWW warning people that the house-rises were artificial and the flipside of 'releasing your equity' was higher monthly repayments!?
It really annoys me to hear all the 'whoa is me' bleating about house-prices falls. Easy come, easy go!!! Personally I think it would be fair for house prices to fall substantially, so that they bear some relation to wages. I'll finally be able to afford something decent!
The credit crunch is simply part of this same issue. You don't need to be an economist like WWW to figure it out: You take out a loan; you pay it back. The bank charges interest and you repay the loan in instalments. It costs you a lot of money. That's why our parent's generation saved up for things they wanted to own. One of the major causes of the 'credit crunch' is that the media and gullable public have created the trap of buy now pay later. Why are people so surprised that we're in this position? I predicted it years ago...
When you link this irresponsible behaviour by certain people with rising house prices, you have a problem for those people. It really annoys me that people who didn't fall for this
will suffer in a recession because the rich kids working in the City of London jumped on the bandwagon and are now panicking because their bonuses are sliding down the plug hole. These City-Slickers, who have earned fortunes gambling with other people's money, are now unwilling to gamble. Shame, poor dears won't get their new Porsche this year, and the rest of us lose out. Add into this unsavoury mix a lot of greedy oil-barons and rising oil prices, a government that thinks little of spending billions on needless wars and paying people not to work, and you get an almighty mess.The above rant is why I cannot understand 18 year olds signing up for integrated courses to become airline pilots. In the current economic climate it's crazy if it's your own money, irresponsible if it's not.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: manchester
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Heli Port
Look at the news today there's one............
I am a shareholder of the RBS so, yes I was talking about the rights issue
Going back to my original statement, more airlines will join forces in order to continue as a going concern
KP
I am a shareholder of the RBS so, yes I was talking about the rights issue
Going back to my original statement, more airlines will join forces in order to continue as a going concern
KP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Finland
Age: 37
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hollingworthp, surely isnt closed community, but i doubt very much there is many experienced pilots outside of the Finland who are able to speak one of the hardest languages in the world
Which our two biggest airlines require.
Which our two biggest airlines require.